How solid are we at OLB/DE and ILB/MLB

[mayoclinic]

Andy, I'm curious why you see Brandon Deaderick as a 4-3 LDE, and also why you would put him ahead of Jonathan Fanene on the depth chart at that position.

Here are my front 7 depth charts:
For clarity I am only listing a player at one spot, although Ninko, for example could back up many
43
LDE Deaderick/Fanene/Pryor
DT Wiflork/Brace/
DT Love/Warren
RDE (no particular order because it will be determined in camp) Jones-Cunningham-Scott-Bequette
OLB Mayo/Ninkovich
MLB Spikes/Fletcher
OLB Hightower/Carpenter

34
LDE Deaderick/Brace/Warren
NT Wilfork/Love
RDE Fanene/Pryor
OLB Ninko/Cunningham/Scott
ILB Mayo/Fletcher
ILB Spikes/Carpenter
OLB Hightower/Jones/Bequette
(again, OLB is a votatile depth chart. a lot will be sorted out in camp. very hard to rank them at this point)

NICKEL/DIME DL
DE- Scott/Ninko/Cunnignham
DT- Fanene/Warren/Deaderick
DT- Wilfork/Pryor
DE-Jones/Bequette

NICKEL/DIME LBs
Mayo, Hightower, Ninko, Spikes, Fletcher, Carpenter

 

[Marqui]

Andy, I'm curious why you see Brandon Deaderick as a 4-3 LDE, and also why you would put him ahead of Jonathan Fanene on the depth chart at that position.

Deaderick? I'm more confused as to why he put Pryor there.

 

[mayoclinic]

Deaderick? I'm more confused as to why he put Pryor there.

I was confused about that one too, but at least he was 3rd on Andy's depth chart.

 

[jah]

Andy, I'm curious why you see Brandon Deaderick as a 4-3 LDE, and also why you would put him ahead of Jonathan Fanene on the depth chart at that position.

Might have to do with the fact that Deaderick played 4-3 LE last year.

 

[Ring 6]

Andy, I'm curious why you see Brandon Deaderick as a 4-3 LDE, and also why you would put him ahead of Jonathan Fanene on the depth chart at that position.

Deaderick played LDE in the 43 last year.
I prefer him in 43 and Fanene in the sub.

 

[Ring 6]

Deaderick? I'm more confused as to why he put Pryor there.

Where are you putting Pryor in a 43?
IMO, he could not play inside in the base 43.
He is a DT in sub packages, is that your thinking?

 

[Ring 6]

I was confused about that one too, but at least he was 3rd on Andy's depth chart.

Where else would you put him?
This is base 43 not sub packages.

 

[BBass]

Our base scheme is a 3-4 that plays like a 4-3. So the personal is always the same in base.

LDE (7 Tech) Fanene, Deaderick
NT (3 Tech) - Love, Deaderick, Pryor
RDE (2 Tech) - Wilfork, Brace, Warren
ROLB/RE (7 Tech) Jones, Scott, Bequette

These 4 positions are at the line and difference between the 3-4 and 4-3 is whether the ROLB/RE is in a standing or hand down. If the ROLB drop into coverage (Very Rare) then the LDE and RDE play 5 Tech and the NT plays 0.
LOLB (SAM) - Nink, Hightower, Cunningham
SILB (MLB) - Spikes, Fletcher
WILB (ROLB) - Mayo, Carpenter
These players have the same basic roles as 4-3 LB but give 3-4 looks.
Sub packages are simple
4 Man Front
SAM/LOLB (Plays LDE) - Ninkovich
LDE (Replace NT) - Fanene
RDE (Same) - Wilfork
ROLB (Same) - Jones

And a 3 man front the NT comes out and everyone aligns as is, also you could run a 2-3-6 and move the SAM to the LE and remove the LDE and NT.

 

[mgteich]

We agree on 21 of 22 core players. You have Dennard and I have White.

Well we might as well swap WAGs on the final 3 defensive players, as of June 10th.
Mine last 3 are Barrett, Dennard and Carpenter. I see Carter on PUP.

Our "core" lists are essentially the same except for whether Ninkovich is listed as a LB or as a DE/OLB, which is semantics, and in that I have Alfonzo Dennard making the team and you view Tracy White as a lock. I don't view White as a lock at all, though the team definitely liked him the past 2 years. But we're close.

 

[mayoclinic]

We agree on 21 of 22 core players. You have Dennard and I have White.

Well we might as well swap WAGs on the final 3 defensive players, as of June 10th.
Mine last 3 are Barrett, Dennard and Carpenter. I see Carter on PUP.

If you grant that Carter is unsigned or on PUP to start the season, then I would see Marquice Coles, Carpenter and Jeff Tarpinian as my 3. I think that Tarpinian can play a hybrid LB/S role and beats out Barrett, and Carpenter and Tarpinian together make White expendable. And I think Marquice Coles is going to surprise with his athleticism and ST ability. But it's a shot in the dark, as you say.

 

[mayoclinic]

Where else would you put him?
This is base 43 not sub packages.

I have yet to see anything from Myron Pryor to make me think that he is anything other than a DT. I'd have him as a backup DT in the base package, and a pass rushing DT in the sub package.

 

[mgteich]

23 out of 25 agreement is pretty impressive.

You have Coles and Tarpinian.
I have Barrett and White.

Tarpinian might beat out White, or not. White has beaten out youngsters before. Besides, injuries will likely mean that they will both gets lots of reps this year. If Tarpinian can truly play safety, that increases his chances of beating out White.

With regard to keeping Barrett, he was a starter in 2011, and it would be good to have 2 safeties who are returning from 2011. I'm confident of Gregory, but he may take a bit of time to learn the system. Counting on a rookie is even more problematical. Finally, perhaps Belichick is willing to again plan to experiment with corners playing safeties. I see us have four safeties, 3 of which are position safeties PLUS our rookie. I know what this board thinks of Barrett, but I think that Belichick disagrees. I would not be shocked to see Barrett start at the beginning of the season.

A SLIGHT ALTERNATIVE (still 23 out of 25)

The arguments on Coles are convincing me that we should keep this top gunner. If I keep him, it would be instead of Dennard, who may have a special exemption or may be on the Practice Squad.

Now I have BARRETT and WHITE
and you have DENNARD and TARPINIAN

This is now a mor direct competition for the last 2 defensive spots

If you grant that Carter is unsigned or on PUP to start the season, then I would see Marquice Coles, Carpenter and Jeff Tarpinian as my 3. I think that Tarpinian can play a hybrid LB/S role and beats out Barrett, and Carpenter and Tarpinian together make White expendable. And I think Marquice Coles is going to surprise with his athleticism and ST ability. But it's a shot in the dark, as you say.

 

[mgteich]

Belichick likes experienced, qualified, veteran defensive players. I expect Scott to be a major contributer. However, even if he is not, I expect him to be a veteran insurance policy.

Somehow I expect to see Scott as one of the 15-16 front seven defensive players.

Can you expand on your reasoning for this?

 

[Ring 6]

I have yet to see anything from Myron Pryor to make me think that he is anything other than a DT. I'd have him as a backup DT in the base package, and a pass rushing DT in the sub package.

Well, he really has never played in the base, so there wouldn't be anything to see.
In a 34 he surely isnt a NT, and in a 43, his size and skillset are suited much better for LDE than the DT spot.

 

[mayoclinic]

Belichick likes experienced, qualified, veteran defensive players. I expect Scott to be a major contributer. However, even if he is not, I expect him to be a veteran insurance policy.

I agree. Scott is a proven player in both 3-4 and 4-3 schemes, including the elephant position prior to his 2010 ACL injury. Given Jones' and Bequette's inexperience, I think that a veteran presence at DE/OLB is likely. Cunningham has yet to prove that he can handle that role. That leaves Scott and Andre Carter in addition to Rob Ninkovich. Scott is more likely to be physically ready than Carter, and I think he is very likely to make the final roster.

 

[Ring 6]

Belichick likes experienced, qualified, veteran defensive players. I expect Scott to be a major contributer. However, even if he is not, I expect him to be a veteran insurance policy.

Somehow I expect to see Scott as one of the 15-16 front seven defensive players.

I think he has the opportunity to fit into your description, but I think he has a lot of competition. I don't consider him a lock at this point, because there are many scenarios where there is not room for him, especially if you are considering bringing Andre Carter back.

 

[BlueThunder]

If you grant that Carter is unsigned or on PUP to start the season, then I would see Marquice Coles, Carpenter and Jeff Tarpinian as my 3. I think that Tarpinian can play a hybrid LB/S role and beats out Barrett, and Carpenter and Tarpinian together make White expendable. And I think Marquice Coles is going to surprise with his athleticism and ST ability. But it's a shot in the dark, as you say.

Agree mayo. I like the Coles pickup also. Great ST gunner and we all know how much BB likes his ST guys. Jet fans were sad to see him go. Played in the dime pkg also. I'd put him on the final roster barring injury. :rocker:

 

[mgteich]

I had forgotten some of Coles' skills. I changed my roster to include Coles instead of Dennard. I still agree with mayo on 23 out of 25.

Agree mayo. I like the Coles pickup also. Great ST gunner and we all know how much BB likes his ST guys. Jet fans were sad to see him go. Played in the dime pkg also. I'd put him on the final roster barring injury. :rocker:

 

[BlueThunder]

I'd slide Dennard onto PS and hope he clears waivers.

 

[Ring 6]

I agree. Scott is a proven player in both 3-4 and 4-3 schemes, including the elephant position prior to his 2010 ACL injury. Given Jones' and Bequette's inexperience, I think that a veteran presence at DE/OLB is likely. Cunningham has yet to prove that he can handle that role. That leaves Scott and Andre Carter in addition to Rob Ninkovich. Scott is more likely to be physically ready than Carter, and I think he is very likely to make the final roster.

How proven is he, other than as a sub rusher?
Last year he has a total of 6 tackles and 1 assist, with zero sacks in 14 games.
This ranked 5th among Raider DEs.
The prior year he started 10 games out of 10 but still only had 12 tackles, 8 assists and 1.5 sacks.
This ranked him 4th among Radier DEs, and the guy who shared the spot wth him had 43-13-7 more than 3 times as much porudction.
In 2009 he was playing LB in the 43 and total 33-5-7, not really playing until a couple of injuries got him out there full time, again nothing to get overly excited about.
As a rookie he totally 10 tackles and 5 assists, with 5 sacks, again sub type of numbers.

I have not studied his career, but he has either been pretty exclusively sub package and special teams except for part of 2009 or he has been pretty silent when he was out there.

Compairsons to Vrabel notwithstanding, as far as playing in a base D Jermaine Cunningham showed more in his rookie season than Scott has ever shown.