Time to fish or cut bait with Chad Ochocinco

[Triumph]

If this "Nocho learn playbook Cinco" stuff continues, I think that BB will cut him loose sooner in TC than later, so he can land on another team and get to work on their play book.

I mean, the Pats TC begins on July 27th 2012 NFL Training Camp Schedule / Dates a few more weeks of intense study until the 53 cut down is not going to suddenly help Cinco get it IMO.

 

[basement zombie]

Good post above, Mo.

...If Lloyd is the fit he and Josh and most folks anticipate, and Galloway (huge bonus in coming available essentially for free) and Branch and Edleman are healthy, there is lots to replace Chad with in 2012 and then Stallworth and Gonzo and Ocho are possibly competing for one final WR slot. Or maybe there isn't one. Or maybe it goes to the rookie if he shows anything in camp, stranger things have happened.

I did a triple take here, wondering what I was missing - I think you meant to say Gaffney, correct?

 

[mayoclinic]

If this "Nocho learn playbook Cinco" stuff continues, I think that BB will cut him loose sooner in TC than later, so he can land on another team and get to work on their play book.

I mean, the Pats TC begins on July 27th 2012 NFL Training Camp Schedule / Dates a few more weeks of intense study until the 53 cut down is not going to suddenly help Cinco get it IMO.

2 more OTAs plus a minicamp plus. 2 full months (May 27-July 27) to apply things wouldn't help? Plus a full month+ of training camp and preseason games?

 

[Snake Eyes]

Players screw up and run laps in OTAs and training camp. It happens. Using that as an excuse to write the article was lame, to be kind.

1 - It's a player who has a history of 'not getting it', so it's not an isolated event but rather a continuation of a process.

2 - It's a relatively slow part of the offseason, writers need to write about something, even if it doesn't deserve to be written about.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I've got to give this one to Brdmaverick. Haters gonna hate, and a lot of people are taking great pleasure in bashing "Ochostinko". Some of them had ridiculously high expectations for what he would do coming into a brand new system that was very different than what he was used to:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...expectations-chad-ochocinco-haynesworth.html

"Realistic expectations" my *ss. People over-hyped Ochocinco, then over-bashed him when he didn't meet their expectations. That's SOP for this board.

I call BS on that post. With the exception of a couple of knuckleheads who predicted or called for Welker to be traded before the season...and a few more who totally dismissed Branch...and one or two who miscalculated on the QB...those were likely the same expectations as the team that signed him to essentially the same deal they gave Lloyd this season (3 years $12M only they had the good sense to split his $6M bonus into two installments via option). Don't try and tell me this FO didn't expect him to at least approach a thousand yards and 60 catches (that's 3-5 receptions per game) and a half dozen TD's. Each was brought in here in the hopes they could top a guy who produced 700-800+ yards and 50-60+ receptions and 5-6 TD's in back to back seasons...on a restructured deal that cost less than...$3M per to (along with the drafted TE's) when he was brought in to offset the loss of a guy who routinely produced a over 1200 yards and 80 receptions and twice as many TD's. On a team where Welker had been routinely putting up thousand plus yard seasons for little more.

Ocho thoroughly underperformed even the most conservative of estimates. Don't try and write off his performance by chalking it up to unrealistic fan expectations... Had he produced twice as much his season would have been a crashing disappointment based simply on the investment this FO made in him in cap, cash and picks.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Good post above, Mo.

I did a triple take here, wondering what I was missing - I think you meant to say Gaffney, correct?

Eh...yup! Thanks for catching it.

 

[Deus Irae]

1 - It's a player who has a history of 'not getting it', so it's not an isolated event but rather a continuation of a process.

2 - It's a relatively slow part of the offseason, writers need to write about something, even if it doesn't deserve to be written about.

1.) To repeat:

Players screw up and run laps in OTAs and training camp. It happens. Using that as an excuse to write the article was lame, to be kind.

The assertion that this is the continuation of a process is an asinine one. Players end up taking laps in the offseason work all the time, even multi-year veterans who've no longer got any type of comprehension issues.

2.) This wasn't an article for a newspaper running a tight deadline. It was something done for Patsfans.com. The author could have come up with any number of other topics, or he could just have written an opinion piece about Johnson without using the non-crutch of the OTA. It was a crap article.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

2 more OTAs plus a minicamp plus. 2 full months (May 27-July 27) to apply things wouldn't help? Plus a full month+ of training camp and preseason games?

A full TC and pre season and 17 weeks of practice (what was Bill up to mentioning, 112 or so practices under their collective belts) and 16 active games didn't up til now so...

He doesn't have a full 2 months to apply things. He has a has 7 of more days of OTA's and 3 days of veteran mini camp before everyone including coaching staff goes on an extended vacation prior to training camp opening. In the meantime time Chad's well publicized plans include continued filming for a six week program chronicaling the madcap run up to his anticipated July wedding. So tic tok...the clock is running.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I don't agree. The article seems nothing more than a knee-jerk reaction to Ochocinco lining up offsides during one OTA play.

I have never been a big fan of Ochocinco, and never saw him as a fit for the Pats. I hated the trade when the Pats made it, though many on this board were euphoric at the time. I wasn't at all surprised to see him struggle last year, given the precedence of Tory Holt and Joey Galloway. And paying him $6M was absolutely ludicrous.

But for Chrissakes, give the guy a chance. Either he'll make the team or he won't. The odds are that he won't, but give him a legitimate chance through training camp, just like everyone else. This "fish or cut bait" stuff based on one second hand OTA report is ridiculous.

Torry Holt was injured.

 

[Snake Eyes]

1.) To repeat:

Players screw up and run laps in OTAs and training camp. It happens. Using that as an excuse to write the article was lame, to be kind.

The assertion that this is the continuation of a process is an asinine one. Players end up taking laps in the offseason work all the time, even multi-year veterans who've no longer got any type of comprehension issues.

2.) This wasn't an article for a newspaper running a tight deadline. It was something done for Patsfans.com. The author could have come up with any number of other topics, or he could just have written an opinion piece about Johnson without using the non-crutch of the OTA. It was a crap article.

Ocho has and apparently still does have a comprehension issue, it's on him to show otherwise.

You think it's a crap article, it seems to be generating a lot of hits, if so is it really crap? Also, why don't you write a better article, we could always use better material to read.

 

[Deus Irae]

Ocho has and apparently still does have a comprehension issue, it's on him to show otherwise.

That's a perfectly valid position to take in the current absence of any real knowledge. It's completely irrelevant to the question of any significance to a penalty lap, though.

You think it's a crap article, it seems to be generating a lot of hits, if so is it really crap? Also, why don't you write a better article, we could always use better material to read.

Crap articles, and crap writers, often get hits or viewings, particularly when they are negative articles. That doesn't make them good articles. This article is a good example of that.

As for me, I'm not part of any Patsfans.com staff, I don't currently have the desire to write sports blog pieces or articles, and I write posts which give material for plenty of Patsfans.com readers to read and react.

 

[patfanken]

2 more OTAs plus a minicamp plus. 2 full months (May 27-July 27) to apply things wouldn't help? Plus a full month+ of training camp and preseason games?

Plus the haters are willing to throw away the possibility of trading Ocho in August to some team in desperate need of an experienced WR. Or for that matter any of our WR's not named Welker or Lloyd. They will all be trade bait down the road. We can use some 6th and 7th round picks for next season.

This entire thread is a ridiculous exercise in piling on for no purpose other than to satisfy a sick urge to feel superior by tearing down another. For all we know, the day before (when the mediots weren't there) It was Lloyd that went off side and had to positioned correctly.

ANYTHING that occurs in a voluntary OTA in May will have NOTHING to do with the personnel decisions that will happen in September.....either good or bad. How quickly how people forget that Chad Jackson was the "star" of the OTA season in his rookie year. It means nothing.

 

[The Gr8est]

I've got to give this one to Brdmaverick. Haters gonna hate, and a lot of people are taking great pleasure in bashing "Ochostinko". Some of them had ridiculously high expectations for what he would do coming into a brand new system that was very different than what he was used to:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/781924-realistic-stat-expectations-chad-ochocinco-haynesworth.html

"Realistic expectations" my *ss. People over-hyped Ochocinco, then over-bashed him when he didn't meet their expectations. That's SOP for this board.

Mayo, I respect your opinion as much as anyone's on this board, but we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.

I was never a fan of the Ocho experience and maybe I just don't "get" him. BB does though, and apparently has liked Chad for a long time, and coughed up two valuable draft picks when the opportunity came to acquire him.

Now regardless of my previous feelings about Chad, once he began wearing "the laundry" I wanted him to succeed. I would celebrate the positive developments, and hope that the negative reports were just growing pains that would be overcome. I feel this way about any player wearing the laundry; I was even hopeful that Chad would get it together for the SB when he was really needed, and justify the whole experiment on one huge grand stage, with the whole world watching.

But I paid attention to the missteps, I cringed when I read that Edelman had to tell Chad where to line up.

I cringed when a huge play by Gronk was called back because Chad lined up wrong.

I cringed when Chad dropped a long TD pass that would have put the Pats ahead in the loss to Buffalo.

I cringed whenever I saw Chad break left while Brady threw right.

And I cringed, when after having a year in the system, in the first OTA, Chad has to, once again, be told where to line up.

I'm sorry people, but the emperor is butt naked, and I can't believe how many still think he is stylishly dressed.

Chad cost the Pats a #5 and a #6 pick, and if you consider that Taylor Price (regardless of what your opinions on his future may be), was cut when a roster spot was desperately needed, then he coast a #3 as well.


I freely reiterate that I have NEVER been an Ochocinco fan, but my love of the laundry overrules all, and I just don't see what evidence there is to think, based on his past performance in NE, that he will suddenly have the light go on.

I am certainly NOT rooting for Chad to fail, just as I would never root for a draft choice to fail so that I could gleefully point out that I was right and BB was wrong. These players are valuable assets, and are in limited supply.

I am not happy when a player fails, or when a player is cut because the Pats already have a glut of good players at his position.

I wouldn't dream of trying to speak for anyone else, but as for me, I have seen all I want to from the Ochocinco experiment, and am ready to move on from him.

If it turns out that there are aspects that I am not seeing, and he does turn it around and becomes a producer for the Pats, then I will lead the charge to admit I was wrong and celebrate his accomplishments; but that isn't the way the smart money should be bet right now.

 

[mayoclinic]

I'm not sure what you think we disagree about. Like you, I was ever a fan of the Ocho experience, and I didn't see him as a fit for the Pats. Like you, once he put on the uniform I was rooting for him to succeed. Like you, I've been disappointed with the results so far. And I've suggested that Ocho has an uphill fight to make the team.

All I'm saying is (1) a knee jerk article saying that it's time to "fish or cut bait" based on one second hand report from OTA's is ludicrous; and (2) we should all let the pre-season roster competition play out. If Ocho gets cut I won't shed a tear. If he plays well enough to merit a spot, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

If you still think we disagree, let me know how.

Mayo, I respect your opinion as much as anyone's on this board, but we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.

I was never a fan of the Ocho experience and maybe I just don't "get" him. BB does though, and apparently has liked Chad for a long time, and coughed up two valuable draft picks when the opportunity came to acquire him.

Now regardless of my previous feelings about Chad, once he began wearing "the laundry" I wanted him to succeed. I would celebrate the positive developments, and hope that the negative reports were just growing pains that would be overcome. I feel this way about any player wearing the laundry; I was even hopeful that Chad would get it together for the SB when he was really needed, and justify the whole experiment on one huge grand stage, with the whole world watching.

But I paid attention to the missteps, I cringed when I read that Edelman had to tell Chad where to line up.

I cringed when a huge play by Gronk was called back because Chad lined up wrong.

I cringed when Chad dropped a long TD pass that would have put the Pats ahead in the loss to Buffalo.

I cringed whenever I saw Chad break left while Brady threw right.

And I cringed, when after having a year in the system, in the first OTA, Chad has to, once again, be told where to line up.

I'm sorry people, but the emperor is butt naked, and I can't believe how many still think he is stylishly dressed.

Chad cost the Pats a #5 and a #6 pick, and if you consider that Taylor Price (regardless of what your opinions on his future may be), was cut when a roster spot was desperately needed, then he coast a #3 as well.


I freely reiterate that I have NEVER been an Ochocinco fan, but my love of the laundry overrules all, and I just don't see what evidence there is to think, based on his past performance in NE, that he will suddenly have the light go on.

I am certainly NOT rooting for Chad to fail, just as I would never root for a draft choice to fail so that I could gleefully point out that I was right and BB was wrong. These players are valuable assets, and are in limited supply.

I am not happy when a player fails, or when a player is cut because the Pats already have a glut of good players at his position.

I wouldn't dream of trying to speak for anyone else, but as for me, I have seen all I want to from the Ochocinco experiment, and am ready to move on from him.

If it turns out that there are aspects that I am not seeing, and he does turn it around and becomes a producer for the Pats, then I will lead the charge to admit I was wrong and celebrate his accomplishments; but that isn't the way the smart money should be bet right now.

 

[Frezo]

If Chad had a good year last season, nobody would care about this OTA. We could write it off as rust. Instead what we see is a continuance of failure. At this point I just want to see the best receiver get the job whether that's Chad, Gonzales, Stallworth or whoever. Belichick's decision will have my support and so will Chad if he gets the job.

 

[Joker]

yeah, Frez...to quote the Beli.."it is what it is"...we'll find out soon enough...I don't care enough about Osso Buco to really give a crap until it's roster crunch time

 

[RIpats88]

I dont see Ochocinco making the roster.

pats have welker, lloyd, gaffney, branch, even Stallworth who all know the pat's system and have a rapport with brady.


no problem in giving the guy a shot though, if he wakes up and gets the playbook you have a solid WR, if not just cut him free. its an uphill battle for him though.

 

[The Gr8est]

I'm not sure what you think we disagree about. Like you, I was ever a fan of the Ocho experience, and I didn't see him as a fit for the Pats. Like you, once he put on the uniform I was rooting for him to succeed. Like you, I've been disappointed with the results so far. And I've suggested that Ocho has an uphill fight to make the team.

All I'm saying is (1) a knee jerk article saying that it's time to "fish or cut bait" based on one second hand report from OTA's is ludicrous; and (2) we should all let the pre-season roster competition play out. If Ocho gets cut I won't shed a tear. If he plays well enough to merit a spot, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

If you still think we disagree, let me know how.

OK, maybe we don't disagree then, as I didn't read the article and was responding to defenses of Ocho that I am seeing in this thread, rather than specific criticisms of statements from the article.

 

[goheels22002]

It's 83 degrees and sunny here on the lake. This thread should be called "Is Chad Ochocinco fishing with the right bait?" Can somebody bump this thread around August 1st when it matters?

 

[DaBruinz]

​

Its the "Attention Whoring" like Starbucks, Twitter, letter to Goodell and all the other nonsense this guy likes to create unrelated to football. I kept hoping last season that he would emerge and do something special.

The problem is that people like yourself are the ones who blow it out of proportion. Chad has been relatively tame in comparison to his antics in Cincy. And it galls people like you so you make it out to be more than it is.

The letter to Goodell was about football.