Reiss' Way Too Early roster projection

[captain stone]

New England Patriots Mailbag -- How the new guys will fit in - ESPN Boston

QB - agreed;

RB - I'd rather have Bolden or some other Big Back instead of Addai;

FB - agreed, because of his versatility;

WR - I'm hoping that Stallworth & Gonzalez can supplant Slater & Branch;

TE - agreed;

OL - I'm hoping that Don Thomas & Nick McDonald can supplant Koppen & Wendell,
and that Waters returns. If he does, then I'd drop either Stallworth or Gonzalez.

DT - agreed;

DE/OLB - agreed;

LB - I'd rather have Carpenter than Tarpinian;

CB - I'm hoping that Marquice Cole can supplant Will Allen;

S - If Barrett can stay healthy & show that he actually wants to tackle somebody,
then I might keep him ahead of Ebner, though Ebner's kamikaze ST skills & position
potential might be too compelling to risk placing on waivers, esp. if Slater is shown
the door. (Hey, I can dream, can't I?)

Unfortunately, injuries have a way of spoiling all of the best-laid plans, but that's how
the final 53 look to me right now.

 

[rookBoston]

You're right that Carpenter is the forgotten man. I hope he does really well in TC.

 

[Jackson 2]

You're right that Carpenter is the forgotten man. I hope he does really well in TC.

Before Tarpinian went on IR, he was beginning to get increased playing time. BB clearly sees a lot in him that he likes. Should be interesting.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Before Tarpinian went on IR, he was beginning to get increased playing time. BB clearly sees a lot in him that he likes. Should be interesting.

Tarpinian is an animal who will be a huge asset on ST's and rush the passer packages. Not an every down player but a great weapon.

 

[supafly]

Boy I wish we'd finally hear some confirming news in regards to the return of Brian Waters.

When a guy like Mike Reiss openly questions the possibility this close to the summer it could be viewed by some as troubling.

As far as Tarpinian goes, I would agree that he would have the upper hand on a guy like Bobby Carpenter for now. Carpenter will really need to have a good TC to make the team, in my opinion.

As far as whether or not we keep Will Allen or Marquice Cole, I couldn't care less...as long as Sterling Moore is on the squad, as I feel he deserves a longer look and could possibly build on some of what we saw at the end of the season.

Cole would seem to have the upper hand over Allen due to his ST presence, but I hope he can also cover in case it somehow comes down to it.

 

[Sicilian]

At early glance, there really seems to be a lot of tough decisions to make this training camp, not just within each position grouping, but in regards to how many of each position to keep.

As for Reiss' projection, I'm of the opinion that we really should hang on to a 9th OL. Given that Vollmer, Mankins, and Koppen all have recent injuries, the depth may come into play. I would make up the spot by either not carrying a fullback (how often do we use one anyway that couldn't be filled by an OL or one of the bigger backs?) or by only carrying 3 RBs, and keeping a FB that can run in a pinch (ala Heath Evans).

I can't see anyone else on that list that I would want to drop at this moment. Six CBs seems like a lot, but given we always have an injury or two there we may need it. Also, if Ebner is our 4th "safety", I doubt he actually sees many defensive snaps this year. That means one or more of those six CBs will actually be in the S rotation, so the extra will be needed.

Love this stuff though! Should be a really interesting camp.

 

[supafly]

At early glance, there really seems to be a lot of tough decisions to make this training camp, not just within each position grouping, but in regards to how many of each position to keep.

As for Reiss' projection, I'm of the opinion that we really should hang on to a 9th OL. Given that Vollmer, Mankins, and Koppen all have recent injuries, the depth may come into play. I would make up the spot by either not carrying a fullback (how often do we use one anyway that couldn't be filled by an OL or one of the bigger backs?) or by only carrying 3 RBs, and keeping a FB that can run in a pinch (ala Heath Evans).

I can't see anyone else on that list that I would want to drop at this moment. Six CBs seems like a lot, but given we always have an injury or two there we may need it. Also, if Ebner is our 4th "safety", I doubt he actually sees many defensive snaps this year. That means one or more of those six CBs will actually be in the S rotation, so the extra will be needed.

Love this stuff though! Should be a really interesting camp.

I'm in the thinking that 9 OL and 10 DB's should be the way to go in almost every season due to some of what you mentioned.

In this case, 9 total DB's may be kept if absolutely necessary, do the the versatility of a couple of guys who could play both positions. I would feel better with the 10th DB though, if it were up to me. I would agree that Ebner would be the 4th safety.

The improvement on talent and versatility of these 2 positions (OL/DB) should improve both areas, as long as Mankins is back.

I think if a FB is kept, he would certainly be able to play the 'Heath Evans' role that you refer to. I'm not a big fan of the position on this particular roster, but apparently BB is.

 

[Don Kipines]

I get the feeling Reiss doesn't know much about the undrafted guys, and several of those have legit shots to make the team.

Brandon Bolden is the first -- he's probably competing head-to-head with Addai for a spot and if he's as good as he was at Ole Miss in 2010, he should win that battle.

Marcus Forston you would think would be in the mix, too. As a penetrating 3-technique type who'd be good in sub packages, he's really competing with Pryor and Fanene, and one injury to someone like Pryor could get Forston a role on the team.

And the Iowa tackle, Marcus Zusevics, has a good shot, too, especially if any of the tackles gets injured in camp (or if, say, Waters retires, and Cannon is moved to guard). After Cannon, the fourth tackle battle is probably between Zusevics and Matt Kopa. Remember, Steve Maneri initially survived the final cut last year, so they'll probably keep four tackles around. None of us have really seen either Kopa or Zusevics play, but they have similar backgrounds (both were college conversions and late bloomers) and are the kinds of long-term projects the Pats always seem to keep around on the OL. It seems like there's always a Maneri or a Tom Ashworth on the roster, some college tight end who they think they can make into a tackle with a few years in an NFL weight program.

It seems like at least one UDFA makes the final cut every year, and they've got really interesting UDFAs this year.

 

[voluntarysaftey]

I'm really hoping we didnt load up on WR just to cut all of them and leave edleman/slater as the 5/6 options

 

[BlueThunder]

Players in parenthesis are replaced in my cut at the early lineup.
So much talent and depth this year. How many of the Patriot late cuts will be playing on other teams this season?

Quarterback (3): Tom Brady, Brian Hoyer, Ryan Mallett





Running back (4): Stevan Ridley, Shane Vereen, Danny Woodhead, (Joseph Addai) Anton Bolden




Fullback (1): Spencer Larsen





Receiver (6): Wes Welker, Brandon Lloyd, Jabar Gaffney, (Deion Branch), Donte Stallworth, Julian Edelman, Matthew Slater




Tight end (3): Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Daniel Fells




Offensive line (8): Nate Solder, Logan Mankins, Dan Connolly, Dan Koppen, Ryan Wendell, Sebastian Vollmer, Marcus Cannon, (Robert Gallery)..If Waters plays this season, drop Gallery.





Defensive tackle (5): Vince Wilfork, Kyle Love, Myron Pryor, Jonathan Fanene, Brandon Deaderick...I think Gerard Warren is cut at end of pre-season and on speed dial.





Defensive end/outside linebacker (4): Rob Ninkovich, Chandler Jones, Jake Bequette, Trevor Scott



Linebacker (6): Jerod Mayo, Brandon Spikes, Dont'a Hightower, Tracy White, Dane Fletcher, (Jeff Tarpinian) Markell Carter





Cornerback (6): Devin McCourty, Kyle Arrington, Ras-I Dowling, (Will Allen) Marquice Cole, Sterling Moore, Alfonzo Dennard





Safety (4): Patrick Chung, Steve Gregory, Tavon Wilson, Nate Ebner





Specialists (3): Stephen Gostkowski (kicker), Zoltan Mesko (punter), Danny Aiken (snapper)

 

[The Gr8est]

I'm really hoping we didnt load up on WR just to cut all of them and leave edleman/slater as the 5/6 options

People need to take note of past Pats rosters and note that many of the surprise players that are kept are ST players. BB thinks more highly of ST and versatility than most fans it seems.

Edelman is a very versatile player, he could be expendable if another player with similar versatility, but better skills, comes along.

Slater? Don't think of him as a WR, that isn't where he will make his mark. He won't make it as a safety either, although he can fill in at that position too.

I don't understand why so many fans casually dismiss the contributions of maybe the best ST player in the league. Slater isn't going anywhere.

 

[WhiZa]

I really don't have high hopes for Carpenter. I just don't think he has the killer instinct needed on the football field. He is smart and can play multiple positions which is probably why BB signed him, but I'll never forget back in 2010 when he was knocked 10 yards back by Gronk and then dragged into the end zone by BJGE. He was cut the next game.

 

[Fencer]

Some tweaks I'd make:

• MacDonald over Wendell
• Mankins to PUP, freeing a spot for Waters

And a non-tweak at WR -- It occurs to me that Branch is the game-day inactive in that group. What's more, he's likely handle that role better than the other vet alternatives. So it's not a crazy projection.

 

[Spergon Wynn]

Any one else get the feeling that Reiss had way better insight before he started working for ESPN Boston?

 

[TyronePoole]

Any one else get the feeling that Reiss had way better insight before he started working for ESPN Boston?

i get the sense that he has to appeal to a slightly wider audience now, so he's not going to be playing as much to the hardcore niche he was before. Can't really blame him for that.

 

[Leemo]

WR - I'm hoping that Stallworth & Gonzalez can supplant Slater & Branch;

Sorry buddy but there is 0% chance of Slater being cut. He is a special teams captain and just signed a big extension.

 

[Sciz]

Boy I wish we'd finally hear some confirming news in regards to the return of Brian Waters.

Bedard says Waters is coming back for sure, if that helps.

 

[Sicilian]

I'm really hoping we didnt load up on WR just to cut all of them and leave edleman/slater as the 5/6 options

The 5-6 WR's in this offense currently won't even see the field unless there are multiple injuries. Our primary formation uses 2 WR, and even the empty backfield sets will likely have 2 TE.

For that reason, your 5/6 WR HAVE to be ST contributors, otherwise what are they doing?

We signed so many WR's because we need:

1) Insurance for a Welker holdout (unlikely, but still)

2) Insurance for injuries, since our top 4 options going into camp (Welker, Lloyd, Gaffney, Branch) are all over 30.

3) The best chance at having the best 4 true WR's we can have. The open competition will bring the best out of the players that actually give a damn, and that's never a bad thing to identify.

 

[BradyManny]

The 5-6 WR's in this offense currently won't even see the field unless there are multiple injuries. Our primary formation uses 2 WR, and even the empty backfield sets will likely have 2 TE.

For that reason, your 5/6 WR HAVE to be ST contributors, otherwise what are they doing?

We signed so many WR's because we need:

1) Insurance for a Welker holdout (unlikely, but still)

2) Insurance for injuries, since our top 4 options going into camp (Welker, Lloyd, Gaffney, Branch) are all over 30.

3) The best chance at having the best 4 true WR's we can have. The open competition will bring the best out of the players that actually give a damn, and that's never a bad thing to identify.

Just like on defense, we won't have a primary offensive formation.

We might be 2WR/2TE/1RB. We might be 3WR/2TE, with or without Hernandez in the backfield. If either TE is injured, you might see 4WR/1TE.

Either way, there is plenty of reasons to have 4 viable wide receiving options on this team, with depth at the position.

The bottom line is - if this team had one more healthy weapon in February, the team would've won a championship. It's hard to argue with that.

The Giants had one more healthy weapon than us, as the Packers had more weapons than the Steelers, as the Saints had more weapons than the Colts. End of story. In today's NFL, it's about how many guys you can throw out there on the field that the other team cannot deal with, and having a QB who can get it to them.

Special teams is becoming increasingly less important on the other hand. Kickoffs are almost worthless at this point, and the league trend is to make it even moreso.

 

[Sicilian]

Just like on defense, we won't have a primary offensive formation.

We might be 2WR/2TE/1RB. We might be 3WR/2TE, with or without Hernandez in the backfield. If either TE is injured, you might see 4WR/1TE.

Either way, there is plenty of reasons to have 4 viable wide receiving options on this team, with depth at the position.

The bottom line is - if this team had one more healthy weapon in February, the team would've won a championship. It's hard to argue with that.

The Giants had one more healthy weapon than us, as the Packers had more weapons than the Steelers, as the Saints had more weapons than the Colts. End of story. In today's NFL, it's about how many guys you can throw out there on the field that the other team cannot deal with, and having a QB who can get it to them.

Special teams is becoming increasingly less important on the other hand. Kickoffs are almost worthless at this point, and the league trend is to make it even moreso.

Formation may have been the wrong choice of words. Personnel grouping is probably better. How many times do you really want to take Gronk and Hernandez off the field? How many times do you want to have no RB at all? Sure, there will be times when we go light and come out with 4 WR and a RB/TE, maybe even a 5 WR set now and again, but you're telling me Edelman couldn't be the 5th WR in that grouping? Hell, even in desperation times like the end of the Super Bowl, we put an injured Gronk out there because of his height.

As for having one more weapon winning us the Super Bowl, we've already added TWO more in Lloyd and Gaffney (who both have experience in the system or similar systems), and they're among the 4 WR's with Branch rounding out the group.

As for ST being less important, I just don't agree. Punts can be game altering field position changers, and if no one else is as good as Edelman returning them, I'm ok letting him be the 5th WR who gets 2 snaps a game on offense if he breaks a 30 yard punt return in the 4th quarter.