Chad Ochocinco faces uphill battle to make Patriots roster

[UK_Pat37]

If McD goes back to the vertical style offence we saw in 2007, I can see Chad making the team. It suis him much better.

 

[borg]

Because I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.....it's clear to me he has ADD or my personal favorite... "out-loud thinkers" syndrome....where they can't help themselves but to vocalize every thought that comes in their head. Expecting this type of wiring to be able to identify, process, and execute complicated read and react schemes is too much. They get distracted then consumed with their first obstacle in front of them. Cincy kept it simple....run this pattern.....a single task....perfect for him. The Pats blew it not seeing this trait in Ocho before they signed him.
Think back at that preseason footage years ago when BB told him he was going to be double teamed. Ocho fixated on that the rest of the game. That's what happens....the distraction becomes consuming.
Conclusion.......TOAST

 

[Sivy]

let him be himself and he will be the seconds best WR on the team

 

[Nunchucks]

I think if your name isn't Lloyd or Welker, you are going to have to battle hard to get a spot on this roster.

 

[Triumph]

 

[Ring 6]

Carson Palmer is no genius, and for most of his career Chad was a better receiver than Palmer was a QB imo. He had a pretty elite receiving corps and was still pretty mediocre.

It could be argued the WRs produced because of the QB. TJ Whosyourmama did almost nothing after leaving.

 

[Ring 6]

let him be himself and he will be the seconds best WR on the team

So you want to let him run the wrong routes, and that will help the team?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

It's funny I still remember him and Carson on the sidelines, arguing after a missed pass, Ocho slicing his hand thru the air to show the route he thought he was to run, Carson patiently shaking his head "no". Now I understand what Carson must have been dealing with.

That said I hope he finally gets it. But as some posters have said, it's usually lights on or lights off. Straight away. I wish I knew more about the plays and expected adjustments to understand why he can't figure it out. BB must also put a premium on the weakest link philosophy. Figuring if you don't understand the play, you're just hurting the team. Which I guess makes sense as that's one of the Pats greatest strength -the little team things- WR blocking or slight route picks/rubs for example.

On a related side note, I did gain more respect for Carson for never throwing 85 under the bus in those situations; I still distinctly remember a weird strained look on his face during a mid-game taped segment on the dynamic pair back then while 85 joked he could do no wrong and they were superman and aquaman or something stupid like that... To me that's the team leadership a QB must possess. Knowing your teammates. Willing to take a public hit to keep the team in harmony. But it must of been hard to bite his tounge all season without a peep. Of course this is all my conjecture and armchair psycho-analysis, but thanks for listening.

I think you touch on something that always gnawed at me when it came to assessing these two and which one was the real problem. But in the end I came to the conclusion that they were equally culpable for their combined failure. Palmer wasn't a good leader. Part of being one is being unselfish, and while he may have held his tongue in public he need to develop the capacity not to in private. He never did. And part of the reason he didn't was likely because he was too mistake prone himself to be calling others out effectively and he never worked at refining his own game. Happens to a lot of #1 QB's who grow up believing their own hype and clippings. The last pass he threw as a Bengal sealed it for me. Absolutely inexplicably mindless. Followed by that stupid oh, crap how the F did that just happen look that says somebody else must have screwed up because there is no way I just did that...

Carson Palmer is no genius, and for most of his career Chad was a better receiver than Palmer was a QB imo. He had a pretty elite receiving corps and was still pretty mediocre.

I'm not so sure about that. Both were relatively gifted athletes at their positions but both had inflated egos that exceeded their natural ability, as did their buddy Whosyourmama... As a result they formed a trio that presented a serious problem for the HC who chose to pair them up...

And if you believe better vastly superior coaching or being paired with a QB with exponentially better leadership out of the gate would have resulted in Chad achieving more success, I'm not so sure because I don't believe it would have indulged him then any more than it has to date and that seems to be the issue. Chad can't be Ocho here because it's not about him, or catering to him on or off the field, it's about doing what is best for the entire team and a well developed scheme and system that doesn't stroke ego or cater to personality. Had they drafted Chad Johnson here Ocho likely never exists because he's handled out of the gate like another Chad we drafted...IMO.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

If McD goes back to the vertical style offence we saw in 2007, I can see Chad making the team. It suis him much better.

Given the way the roster has changed since 2007, if McD goes back to the vertical style offense we saw in 2007 fans would be justified in their NEMlike criticism of him...

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Indeed he does, especially if Edelman and/or Slater will be listed at WR (I'm predicted both of those make the team). I'm rooting for him

 

[Off The Grid]

Who??

CJ is vapor, baby.

 

[Off The Grid]

I actually feel bad for Chad and wanted him to do well with the Pats. A big part of that was knowing how elated he was to arrive in NE. You just knew it was something he really wanted. He just couldn't cut it.

I think he'll do fine elsewhere when he's gotta learn 30 or so specific plays and not need to mathematically discern multiple variations on even more after the snap.

Couldn't agree more.

I don't know if he's still got the skills, mind you: I just wish him the best.

Unlike the other Prima Donnas, he has always been a clearly great guy, somebody who truly loves this Great Game and its History, and ~ despite the Smack ~ truly respects his Opponents.

 

[patfanken]

I think Nun has the best handle on this and bears repeating. If your name ISN'T Welker or Lloyd, you'd better be prepared to literally fight for your professional life in TC.....and of course that too includes Ocho. A couple of other points.

1. The Pats are missing picks in the 5th and 6th rounds next season, I wouldn't be surprised to see one or more of Ocho, Stalworth, Gonsales or Gaffney, traded to a team who decides they need a competent veteran WR in mid August, due to injuries or lack of talent.

2. I find that remarks like "Chad sucks" offensive. The guy has been a consistent try hard, productive WR for a decade, and has accumulated over 11,000 receiving yds on some very bad teams. Its OK to criticize him for not "getting" the playbook early on. Its OK to speculate that his skills have eroded. But its NOT OK to simply discard the bulk of a VERY good career with a snide dismissive remarks. He might be a clown off the field, but never on it, and deserves a certain amount of respect for what he's accomplished - JMHO

 

[Triumph]

I think Nun has the best handle on this and bears repeating. If your name ISN'T Welker or Lloyd, you'd better be prepared to literally fight for your professional life in TC.....and of course that too includes Ocho. A couple of other points.

1. The Pats are missing picks in the 5th and 6th rounds next season, I wouldn't be surprised to see one or more of Ocho, Stalworth, Gonsales or Gaffney, traded to a team who decides they need a competent veteran WR in mid August, due to injuries or lack of talent.

Why wouldnt a team just wait a couple of weeks for roster cutdowns and pay nothing?

Ocho wouldnt be worth much. His struggles are well chronicled. Gaffney has improved 3 seasons in succession. If the Pats get rid of Gaffney and keep Ocho, BB has lost his mind.

2. I find that remarks like "Chad sucks" offensive. The guy has been a consistent try hard, productive WR for a decade, and has accumulated over 11,000 receiving yds on some very bad teams. Its OK to criticize him for not "getting" the playbook early on. Its OK to speculate that his skills have eroded. But its NOT OK to simply discard the bulk of a VERY good career with a snide dismissive remarks. He might be a clown off the field, but never on it, and deserves a certain amount of respect for what he's accomplished - JMHO

 

[Sivy]

So you want to let him run the wrong routes, and that will help the team?

No, with more conference he will think clearer

 

[patfanken]

Why wouldnt a team just wait a couple of weeks for roster cutdowns and pay nothing?

Ocho wouldnt be worth much. His struggles are well chronicled. Gaffney has improved 3 seasons in succession.

C'mon T, you should know the answer to that. If they wait those "couple of weeks" there is no sure way they will get the player they need, because they all those final cuts go to the waiver wire, not to FA. Plus, if you decide you need a vet WR, you'd want him to be in your system at least a couple of weeks before the season starts

If the Pats get rid of Gaffney and keep Ocho, BB has lost his mind.

I'm sure YOU know better, but if BB decides to keep Ocho over Gaffney it will be because HE felt Ocho won the job.



=

 

[Ring 6]

No, with more conference he will think clearer

Thats assuming a lot. I have never seen 85 to be a guy who lacked confidence.
Your comment suggested we redirect the offense to what 85 wants to do. Why would we do that when we have at least 4 better receivers who all are capable of doing what the offense asks of them?
If 85 was our 2nd best reciever, why was he so pathetic last year? What is he going to learn in his second year that he couldn't figure out in a full season?

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Why wouldnt a team just wait a couple of weeks for roster cutdowns and pay nothing?

Ocho wouldnt be worth much. His struggles are well chronicled. Gaffney has improved 3 seasons in succession. If the Pats get rid of Gaffney and keep Ocho, BB has lost his mind.

The only way Chad gets into the HOF is if he pays admission at the will call gate.

His career in his prime was respectable but he rarely if EVER came up big in games that really meant something and that is what separates the men from the boys.

Chad was the Steelers b1tch for nearly a decade and overrated overall IMHO

If Chad gets in then there are hundreds of WRs that got the shaft

 

[Sivy]

Thats assuming a lot. I have never seen 85 to be a guy who lacked confidence.
Your comment suggested we redirect the offense to what 85 wants to do. Why would we do that when we have at least 4 better receivers who all are capable of doing what the offense asks of them?
If 85 was our 2nd best reciever, why was he so pathetic last year? What is he going to learn in his second year that he couldn't figure out in a full season?

I think Chad acting a fool makes him more comfortable and will allow him to learn the offense better and more clearly. I said he could be the second best, I did not say he currently was

 

[Ring 6]

I think Chad acting a fool makes him more comfortable and will allow him to learn the offense better and more clearly. I said he could be the second best, I did not say he currently was

Wait. He didn't learn the offense because he didn't act like a fool?
If you are right, then he stole his paycheck not learning the offense even though he could, but decided not to because he wasn't allowed to act like a fool.
If you are correct, 85 was a worse acquisition that anyone has yet recognized.