Ron Brace

[patsinthesnow]

You are pimping a guy who played 9 games in 2 years, and as a supposed pass rush specialist has 2 1/2 sacks in his entire career?
Brace has played well when he has played. Far better than Pryor. For some reason though, playing welll hasn't helped Brace get on the field more. Something is amiss. He is an enigma. But Myron Pryor is certainly not a better player.



Regardless of how the league keeps moving more to a passing league, you still need a base defense. The 'hybrid' defense was a 43, and according to BB was installed because there was not enough time to get the more complex 34 in.
34 DEs are still needed.

Ok, I'll concede that Pryor is made of glass and mediocre, but Brace's 0 career sacks and 4 tackles in all of 2011 says something. He may be saved being at one of our weaker positions, but in the end I see him cut.

 

[Ring 6]

Ok, I'll concede that Pryor is made of glass and mediocre, but Brace's 0 career sacks and 4 tackles in all of 2011 says something. He may be saved being at one of our weaker positions, but in the end I see him cut.

As I said, enigma.
You can't really watch the film of his play as a Patriot and not see good play. You can't really watch it and understand why he isn't earning a lot more playing time.
There is something going on, whether its injuries, attitude, conditioning, intellect, or something else. If that doesn't change I don't know how he is not cut. But the ability is there, and its been shown on the field.
BTW, measuring Brace in sacks is not a realistic yardstick, thats not his role.

 

[BlueThunder]

Brace had a conditioning trainer last year so passing the TC run shouldn't have been a problem...and I believe he passed it. It has to be something else...only BB and the coaches can figure that out.

Attitude or ability will be the difference this season. He better not get injured or its sayonara.

If he tears it up TC, he'll make the roster.

 

[BBass]

He played DT last year, and he has played on the nose.

Don't get me wrong I like Kyle Love a lot. Solid hard working player and I think he will still see the majority of time next to Wilfolk in even fronts such as 4-3, 2-4 nickel and 4 man subpackage. I was simply making the point that in odd fronts like the 3-4 and 3-3 nickel Love doesn't have great size or length for the nose or the end. This is where we really need to hope that Brace can show his value that had him projected coming out of college.

Looking at Brace he was able to be a strong run defender and pillar next to Raji in college which allowed Raji to be more of a attacker. That's why I would like to see at the nose and have us use Vince in more of a Ngata type capacity. Similiar to Raven's use of Ngata and Terence Cody in there base 3-4.

If you look at that line the ROLB is generally covering up the RE anyways so look at this for a base on early downs,

3-4 Heavy
LDE - Deaderick
NT - Brace
RDE- Wilfolk
Elephant - C Jones

LOLB - Hightower
SILB - Spikes
WILB - Mayo

3-4 Light
LDE - Fanaene
NT - Love
RDE - Wilfolk
Elephant - C Jones

LOLB - Hightower
SILB - Spikes
WILB - Mayo

4-3
LE - Bequette
DT - Love
DT - Wilfolk
RE - C Jones

LOLB - Hightower
MILB - Spikes
ROLB - Mayo

2-4 Nickel
LOLB - Bequette/Nincovich
DT - Love
DT - Wilfolk
ROLB - C Jones

SILB - Hightower
WILB - Mayo

3-3
LDE - Fanaene/Bequette
DT - Wilkfolk
RE - C Jones

LOLB - Hightower
MLB - Spikes
ROLB - Mayo

I see these as the best fits for our current personal and it allows us to be heavy and light depending on the situation and to run 4-3 looks with 3-4 versitility. Also relies heavily on our LB which is the strength of our D.

 

[Ring 6]

Brace had a conditioning trainer last year so passing the TC run shouldn't have been a problem...and I believe he passed it. It has to be something else...only BB and the coaches can figure that out.

Attitude or ability will be the difference this season. He better not get injured or its sayonara.

If he tears it up TC, he'll make the roster.

If he plays like he did in preseason and early season 2010 (and overcomes whatever extraneous issue is holding him back) he would stat in the base 34.

 

[Marqui]

You are pimping a guy who played 9 games in 2 years, and as a supposed pass rush specialist has 2 1/2 sacks in his entire career?

To be fair, lack of sacks doesn't necessarily mean Pryor wasn't applying some pressure. For example, in 2010 he abused Steve Hutchinson and knocked Favre the hell out ending his career. Does that not count as a good play because it wasn't a sack?

 

[BBass]

Looking for opinions. Does anyone think that Jake Bequette could play LDE in a 3-4 hybrid scheme?

LDE - Bequette
NT - Brace/Love
RDE - Wilfolk
Elephant ROLB - Jones

LOLB - Hightower
SILB - Spikes
WILB - Mayo

He is 6'4 1/2 and close to 280lbs and considered strong against the run.

Thoughts??

 

[Ring 6]

Looking for opinions. Does anyone think that Jake Bequette could play LDE in a 3-4 hybrid scheme?

LDE - Bequette
NT - Brace/Love
RDE - Wilfolk
Elephant ROLB - Jones

LOLB - Hightower
SILB - Spikes
WILB - Mayo

He is 6'4 1/2 and close to 280lbs and considered strong against the run.

Thoughts??

No chance. Way, way to light to play 34 DE, or LDE in the 43.
He is an OLB in the 34.
Deaderick and Fanene are the guys you are mssing.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Love doesn't have great size or length for the nose or the end.

Love is 6'1, Wilfork is 6'2, are you seriously trying to make the case that 1 inch is the difference between not tall enough to play the position and being the best NT in the league?

 

[Ring 6]

To be fair, lack of sacks doesn't necessarily mean Pryor wasn't applying some pressure. For example, in 2010 he abused Steve Hutchinson and knocked Favre the hell out ending his career. Does that not count as a good play because it wasn't a sack?

Sure, you can make plays without registering a sack. I did not state otherwise.
But Pryor hasn't made many plays, and if his claim to fame is as a pass rusher 2 half sacks in 3 years and one memorable hit on Favre after he released the ball. Not sure how you get that it ended his career. He played most of the rest of the season, while Pryor has played 4 games since. Ironic to your comment Favre has played more football after that hit than Pryor.

 

[BBass]

Love is 6'1, Wilfork is 6'2, are you seriously trying to make the case that 1 inch is the difference between not tall enough to play the position and being the best NT in the league?

No not an issue of height Love weighs in at 310 which is light by NT standards unless your Jay Ratliff. But 310 taking on multiple blockers isn't something Love should be doing every down.

From a length perspective none of our DTs really have ideal 5 teq length. But Wilfolk is a special talent so he can make it work.

I just don't know in general how we can run a 3-4 we don't have then pieces.

 

[Ring 6]

Don't get me wrong I like Kyle Love a lot. Solid hard working player and I think he will still see the majority of time next to Wilfolk in even fronts such as 4-3, 2-4 nickel and 4 man subpackage. I was simply making the point that in odd fronts like the 3-4 and 3-3 nickel Love doesn't have great size or length for the nose or the end. This is where we really need to hope that Brace can show his value that had him projected coming out of college.

Looking at Brace he was able to be a strong run defender and pillar next to Raji in college which allowed Raji to be more of a attacker. That's why I would like to see at the nose and have us use Vince in more of a Ngata type capacity. Similiar to Raven's use of Ngata and Terence Cody in there base 3-4.

Brace has looked much better playing over the T than over the C, and Wilfork clearly is more effective the closer he is to the ball.

If you look at that line the ROLB is generally covering up the RE anyways so look at this for a base on early downs,

Not sure what this means. ROLB and LOLB are doing the same thing depending on which one the offense elects to be the strong side or weak side.

3-4 Heavy
LDE - Deaderick
NT - Brace
RDE- Wilfolk
Elephant - C Jones

LOLB - Hightower
SILB - Spikes
WILB - Mayo

3-4 Light
LDE - Fanaene
NT - Love
RDE - Wilfolk
Elephant - C Jones

I dont know what 34 Light meams. It just looks like you subbed a couple of similar guys for each other.

4-3
LE - Bequette
DT - Love
DT - Wilfolk
RE - C Jones

LOLB - Hightower
MILB - Spikes
ROLB - Mayo

We won't use a guy as small as Bequette at LDE. Last year we only used Deaderick and Ellis there, never using a 34OLB/43RDE there

2-4 Nickel
LOLB - Bequette/Nincovich
DT - Love
DT - Wilfolk
ROLB - C Jones

SILB - Hightower
WILB - Mayo

Fanene's highest use is a sub package DT. Love won't be playing on passing downs.

3-3
LDE - Fanaene/Bequette
DT - Wilkfolk
RE - C Jones

LOLB - Hightower
MLB - Spikes
ROLB - Mayo

We really havent played this much at all.
Really just move Hightower up to LDE make Fanene DT and that is the nickel package. Although Spikes wouldn't be the first choice,

see these as the best fits for our current personal and it allows us to be heavy and light depending on the situation and to run 4-3 looks with 3-4 versitility. Also relies heavily on our LB which is the strength of our D.

I'm not ready to call LB a strength yet, but if/when this draft pans out it will be.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

No not an issue of height Love weighs in at 310 which is light by NT standards unless your Jay Ratliff. But 310 taking on multiple blockers isn't something Love should be doing every down.

From a length perspective none of our DTs really have ideal 5 teq length. But Wilfolk is a special talent so he can make it work.

I just don't know in general how we can run a 3-4 we don't have then pieces.

Love is 310 like Wilfork is 325, I'd say add a minimum of 30 pounds to each for a more accurate weight.

 

[BBass]

No chance. Way, way to light to play 34 DE, or LDE in the 43.
He is an OLB in the 34.
Deaderick and Fanene are the guys you are mssing.

I know you say way to light and I agreed but the more I read about him I wonder, his combine results were extremely comparable to JJ Watts last year. Call him 6'5 275 and if he can work with trainers to add 10-15 lbs between now and camp and we could have a really unique pass rushing capable end and then we move Deadrick to RE and we have a nice 3-4.

Can dream I guess right...

 

[Ring 6]

I know you say way to light and I agreed but the more I read about him I wonder, his combine results were extremely comparable to JJ Watts last year. Call him 6'5 275 and if he can work with trainers to add 10-15 lbs between now and camp and we could have a really unique pass rushing capable end and then we move Deadrick to RE and we have a nice 3-4.

Can dream I guess right...

1) I don't know why we would take a guy who's game is based on agility and quickness and is ideal size/quickness combination for a 34OLB/43DE and bulk him up to be a small weak 34 DE.
2) Why would you move the larger Deaderick to the right side, and put the undersized Bequette, not onlly at a spot he is too small for, but then put him on the left side?
Watts is 300 lbs. 300lb and 275 is a huge difference.
Think of it this way. We want Richard Seymour or Ty Warren at DE, We want Willie McGinest at OLB. Bequette is McGinest size. McGinest would have never played DE in the 34.

 

[Ring 6]

No not an issue of height Love weighs in at 310 which is light by NT standards unless your Jay Ratliff. But 310 taking on multiple blockers isn't something Love should be doing every down.

From a length perspective none of our DTs really have ideal 5 teq length. But Wilfolk is a special talent so he can make it work.

I just don't know in general how we can run a 3-4 we don't have then pieces.

The pieces are:

LDE Deaderick, Brace, Warren
NT Wilfork, Love
RDE Fanene, Pryor
LOLB Hightower, Ninkovich, Cunnignham
LILB Spikes, Carpenter
RILB Mayo, Fletcher
ROLB Jones, Scott, Bequette

We have all the piece and 5 of the 7 are solid and deep.
The other 2 have JAGs that won't kill us but adding 1 or 2 starting caliber DEs really solidifies this.

BTW, its no different in a 43, because DE.NT,DE becomes LDE,DT,DT with the exact same guys.

 

[Marqui]

Sure, you can make plays without registering a sack. I did not state otherwise.
But Pryor hasn't made many plays, and if his claim to fame is as a pass rusher 2 half sacks in 3 years and one memorable hit on Favre after he released the ball. Not sure how you get that it ended his career. He played most of the rest of the season, while Pryor has played 4 games since. Ironic to your comment Favre has played more football after that hit than Pryor.

Ok I over exaggerated the Favre hit but I still don't think Pryor is as bad as you say. Although I don't have much proof of that because, as you've pointed out, he's barely ever on the field. I'll just say if Pryor is healthy this year I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by his interior rushing ability.

 

[VrabelJr]

I have a feeling DT will be our Safety of this year. If Vince Wilfork goes down we're ****ed.

 

[BBass]

1) I don't know why we would take a guy who's game is based on agility and quickness and is ideal size/quickness combination for a 34OLB/43DE and bulk him up to be a small weak 34 DE.
2) Why would you move the larger Deaderick to the right side, and put the undersized Bequette, not onlly at a spot he is too small for, but then put him on the left side?
Watts is 300 lbs. 300lb and 275 is a huge difference.
Think of it this way. We want Richard Seymour or Ty Warren at DE, We want Willie McGinest at OLB. Bequette is McGinest size. McGinest would have never played DE in the 34.

JJ Watts
6'6
290
40- 4.84
Bench - 34 Reps
Vertical - 37.0
Broad - 120.0
3 Cone - 6.88
20 Shuffle - 4.21

Jake Bequette
6'5
274
40 - 4.82
Bench - 32 reps
Vertical - 34.0
Broad - 9.5
Shuffle - 4.07
3 Cone - 6.90

Looks extremely close too me.

The reason I say LDE is because in Wade Phillips Hybrid 3-4 that is where Watts is utilized.

Honestly most of your response are not really based on true research into potential use of the players but rather things heard on ESPN and NESN. You then combine that with the defense we has 6 years ago when we ran a straight up 3-4. I joined to this forum recently to hear from people who are willing to actually look at our personal and find out ways BB plans to utilize it in unique ways.

I can absolutely assure you that BB is not planning on recreating the defense he had back then. The size and style of players he drafted is for something new and inventive.

I am by no means trying to be argumentative but you shot down my suggestion based on a 16lb weight difference. Which could be made up easily without sacrificing and speed or quickness. 300+ 3-4 Ends are not the future of the NFL. Aaron Smith the best in the business is 6'4 285.. You need to see the future buddy.

BB did not draft Jones and Bequette both to play the same position.

 

[pork3]

I have a feeling DT will be our Safety of this year. If Vince Wilfork goes down we're ****ed.

If Vince Wilfork goes down, I will officially shout obscenities your way.
For the love of god man, don't jinx our season before it has even started!

-Jamman