Kiper: Patriots Reached on Day Two

[BritPat]

I love reading the words "Mel Kiper; Draft Guru".

He's absolutely nothing of the sort.

 

[randomk1]

Hard to disagree with that. Hope the best for him but that pick at that spot is mind-boggling

 

[State]

Kiper is right on this one. Hey, a stopped clock and all that...

But do you guys realize how dysfunctional the Illinois football team was the last few years with Ron Zook at the helm? Four guys taken in the first 48 picks this year after they went 2-6 in the weak Big Ten. http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...now-rest-draft-2-picks-page3.html#post3029812

The team captain of the dysfunctional and underperforming Fighting Illini had only two INTs in his career.

The league coaches considered him not to be even an honorable mention all Big Ten player. Only the mediacritters did, which is telling.

 

[brdmaverick]

So let's recap....We eat it up when the media talks about how great our first round was, but we dismiss them as idiots when they question our second round picks.

Sure, we hope that Belichick turns a frog into a prince, but we would all be laughing right now if the Jets made this pick.

 

[BritPat]

So let's recap....We eat it up when the media talks about how great our first round was, but we dismiss them as idiots when they question our second round picks.

Sure, we hope that Belichick turns a frog into a prince, but we would all be laughing right now if the Jets made this pick.

Sorry buddy, you need to speak for yourself here.

The Mediots comments mean nothing to me.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The question isn't about if Wilson will become a good player.

The question is about could they have snatched him up in later rounds as (we assume). It seems that the general consensus is that they could have had him in the later rounds and use the pick on a OL, better athlete as a DB, etc.

However, I also think the Pats have proven that they do a good job of scouting other teams and projecting the needs of other teams.

My only conclusion is that the Pats felt another team or two really liked Wilson as much as they did and were also willing to "reach" for him as well.

 

[Nunchucks]

So, I keep on reading that Wilson is meh in coverage, yet he is a converted CB. That really doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Anyhow, the pick is a head scratcher, Belichick thinks he is the smartest guy int he room with this one, I am not sure he is gonna prove it. But, I am willing to give it him a chance.

Heck, if the guy returned punts and kicks, i would understand it more, but a gunner? WTF

 

[resdubwhite]

The question isn't about if Wilson will become a good player.

The question is about could they have snatched him up in later rounds as (we assume). It seems that the general consensus is that they could have had him in the later rounds and use the pick on a OL, better athlete as a DB, etc.

However, I also think the Pats have proven that they do a good job of scouting other teams and projecting the needs of other teams.

My only conclusion is that the Pats felt another team or two really liked Wilson as much as they did and were also willing to "reach" for him as well.

IF Wilson does become a good player does it really matter where we picked him?

 

[State]

The jury is out on Wilson, but give the kid a chance...[He's the kind of player who turns into a crowd favorite.]

I'm all for giving the kid a chance. No one disputes that. We wish the best of the players selected and the team's performance.

We just question the value of taking the player when we did.

And I know I'm not alone wishing that kid were New England native Kendall Reyes at 48. Talk about a fan favorite, Darry!

 

[Nunchucks]

The question isn't about if Wilson will become a good player.

The question is about could they have snatched him up in later rounds as (we assume). It seems that the general consensus is that they could have had him in the later rounds and use the pick on a OL, better athlete as a DB, etc.

However, I also think the Pats have proven that they do a good job of scouting other teams and projecting the needs of other teams.

My only conclusion is that the Pats felt another team or two really liked Wilson as much as they did and were also willing to "reach" for him as well.

Would you have taken Tom Brady in the first round, knowing what you know now or would you still wait till the 6th?

 

[randomk1]

IF Wilson does become a good player does it really matter where we picked him?

Yeah? We could have potentially gotten another good player and taken him later.

 

[resdubwhite]

Yeah? We could have potentially gotten another good player and taken him later.

potentially we could have got Darius Butler II and missed on Wilson also.

 

[State]

IF Wilson does become a good player does it really matter where we picked him?

Good question. Yes, it does.

It's also the opportunity cost of passing on players available at 48 who also are (more) likely to turn into good players.

Furthermore, taking him later seems as if it was a viable option.

But since Bill has apparently internalized the conviction he's the smartest guy in the room and had already made his mind that he was going to trade down at 62, he went for the position at need.

Also, more needs to be made of the atrocious trade down out of the second for the paltry value. Wheeling and dealing for the sake of the fuss.

Sometimes I wish we could be more like the Steelers and let the players fall to us. Sometimes it works for us, like with Hightower and Gronk, but sometimes it works against us more than we may realize.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Kiper is right on this one. Hey, a stopped clock and all that...

But do you guys realize how dysfunctional the Illinois football team was the last few years with Ron Zook at the helm? Four guys taken in the first 48 picks this year after they went 2-6 in the weak Big Ten. http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...now-rest-draft-2-picks-page3.html#post3029812

The team captain of the dysfunctional and underperforming Fighting Illini had only two INTs in his career.

The league coaches considered him not to be even an honorable mention all Big Ten player. Only the mediacritters did, which is telling.

You are a genius

Your post completely prove what the buffoonery

I've never seen someone so completely prove how dumb you are by explaining your "thinking" behind your origional point.

Unbelievable

Hey Mensa

Illinios is like a ........college program.

Based on your "analysis" of dysfunction, anyone with an IQ north of about -50 would conclude that a dysfunctional COLLEGE program did not properly utilize the talent it had....that's kinda why it's like...dysfunctional.

If a program is "dysfunctional", that means the program has talent that it didn't use properly...because it's like ...dysfunctional.... so the ...talent didn't show up on tape....and if it doesn't show up on tape......that talent probably will not be invited to events where a "draft guru" would like ya know...know you they are.

How can this so hard to figure out?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Actually the only good point he brought up was that he knows some coaches liked him...

What if the best Bill could have gotten for that pick was a trade down into the third and a fifth and one of those other coaches decided to pull the trigger and Bill ended up taking a player he didn't want to fill a void he doesn't believe exists - would everyone be happier? At the end of the day the only real value of draft picks is their ability to allow you to acquire a player you believe will make your team better. And whether media draft gurus think you reached or fans are upset because you didn't take a player they hoped you would is immaterial to someone with Bill's 37 or so years of hands experience in evaluation and coaching potential NFL talent and in the art of teambuilding. It's not a BPA talent acquisition competition and the draft if just one piece of the teambuilding puzzle which if assembled correctly lands you contending for Lombardi's. Bill has contended for several more of those than Mel Kiper in his wildest dreams.

Mel and his ilk have carved themselves a very nice niche within the NFL for a bunch of football crazy fans who could never quite sell themselves to a team as GM's. Scouts often fall in love with overhyped talent they scout. Even the real ones who scout for a team based on a system or scheme. He wasn't a walk on, he was recruited by Maryland and BC and Michigan State as well as Illinois. This kid was projected as the kind of talent that would have warranted their teams attention until after stepping up as a team first player he failed to garner a combine invite because someone miscalculated what coaches might be interested in. A lot like Cassel and Vollmer and even Welker. Players who luckily also happened to not fall under the radar of the only guy whose football opinion matters in NE. Who knows how far up the imaginary boards he might have risen had his pro day performance - where he ran a 4.52 40 - occurred in Indiana rather than Illinois. As it was several teams had him in based on that, and one even had him in for a visit prior to it - our old pal and former director of college scouting Thomas Dimetroff...

Scouting for the NFL is a very inexact science and is more art than anything. A myriad of intangibles often seperate the potential player from the intriguing athletic prospect.

The guy we've been missing in that secondary since he retired played his college ball in Illinois too and was drafted in the 5th round (145) in 1994 and didn't become a starter on the team that drafted him until 2 years later. Fortunately their legendary HC gave up on his career in 2003 while ours didn't. Knowing what we know now about his intangibles, would you have biatched if Bill was the guy who drafted him and in the 2nd round after he ran a 4.84 40 at the combine?

 

[randomk1]

potentially we could have got Darius Butler II and missed on Wilson also.

Which is more likely? That you get a decent player at 48 + Wilson later or that Wilson at #48 is Darius Butler II ?

Whatever...if BB likes the guy i'm not too bothered by it. Atleast he seems like a good guy.

 

[State]

Don't take my word for it, [PatsfaninPitts]. Google Ron Zook. And you'll find he's been fired. The talent's there but the production is not. Poor coaching up and down the sidelines with that program for the past few years. Everyone who is a Big Ten fan knows this.

My being a member of Mensa is beside the point. Or, as we like to say, an exogenous variable.

 

[Rob0729]

So let's recap....We eat it up when the media talks about how great our first round was, but we dismiss them as idiots when they question our second round picks.

Sure, we hope that Belichick turns a frog into a prince, but we would all be laughing right now if the Jets made this pick.

I said yesterday when the analysts were on Belichick's jock, judging a draft the day after the draft is like your teacher back in high school grading your entire final exam based on how you did on the first two answers.

Back in the first half decade of the Belichick era, we all used to brag how the Pats don't rely on the scouting services that most teams and the analysts. That meant their draft boards were completely different and allowed them to get great picks out of reaches like Seymour, Branch, Light, etc.

Wilson looks like a WTF pick, but WTF picks have turned into Pro Bowlers in the past for this team. It could happen again.

I didn't care about what the so called experts said yesterday when they were gushing over the Pats' first round and I don't care about them trashing the second round. I will reserve my judgement when I see the picks on the field over the next few years.

 

[Snake Eyes]

potentially we could have got Darius Butler II and missed on Wilson also.

Yes, and we could have potentially gotten an absolute stud and been saved from Wilson, who could be complete crap.

EVERYTHING is a risk, but some risks are smarter than others. Something could have a 99.9% chance of failing, but it's possible that that .1% could happen and it's a success, does that mean betting on the 99.9% is a smart bet?

 

[resdubwhite]

Yes, and we could have potentially gotten an absolute stud and been saved from Wilson, who could be complete crap.

EVERYTHING is a risk, but some risks are smarter than others. Something could have a 99.9% chance of failing, but it's possible that that .1% could happen and it's a success, does that mean betting on the 99.9% is a smart bet?

Who is in the best position to decide on those probabilities.


The football head coach with the scouting team or the fan on the messageboard?