West Virginia OLB/DE Bruce Irvin

[ATippett56]

He's come from the bottom. His reputation doesn't match up with the person he is. He's a great pick-up for the value at the end of the first.

How is Bruce Irvin great value in the first round when he is rated #64 overall?

NFL Draft - 2012 NFL Draft Prospects - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

 

[Leemo]

I actually like the kid but I'd only want him in the second round

 

[State]

How is Bruce Irvin great value in the first round when he is rated #64 overall?

NFL Draft - 2012 NFL Draft Prospects - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

That's my point.

His Combine numbers are first round numbers, similar to players like Demarcus Ware and Von Miller who were top 15 picks. But people talk of his troubled past.

He produced a lot of sacks the past two years at WVU. But people question the level of competition.

He is the exact same size as Von Miller. But people say he's undersized.

He's humble and football has been his salvation. But people say he's not worth a pick in the first two rounds.

Here's an audio of an interview he did with the Broncos: http://wvupros.com/2012/02/25/bruce-irvin-audio-interview-from-the-nfl-combine/ Listen to his gratitude and humbleness.

I _love_ this kid! Listen to the end of the interview.

He is, for a number of reasons, grossly undervalued. Ask the pro scouts. He's a legit 3-4 OLB and rush end for obvious passing situations.

 

[ATippett56]

His Combine numbers are first round numbers, similar to players like Demarcus Ware and Von Miller who were top 15 picks. But people talk of his troubled past.

Bill Belichick relies more on tape than combine numbers. Bill Belichick prefers a more rounded football player than Bruce Irvin, especially one who is not a liability against the run.

Bill Belichick is more likely to trade down from the #27 overall pick or the #31 overall pick than select a one trick pony.

 

[everlong]

I don't think Irvin is going in the top two rounds but I do understand State's point. Guys like Poe and Hill this year suddenly move up a half to a full round based on athletic potential displayed at the combine. It's not like either of them have tape to back it up either. Yes Hill's system limited him but so perhaps did Irvin's. Personally I wouldn't elevate any of them just off the numbers but it weird how some players will create the buzz off a great combine and others won't. Perhaps it was the character issues but other character issues over the years have bumped way up just off a great combine.

 

[Sciz]

Irvin would be comparable to Poe and Hill if he were 6'5" and 260. They both have elite size to match their elite athleticism. Irvin doesn't.

 

[cstjohn17]

I thought this was funny "Can run like a scalded dog and is the most explosive pass rusher of any in the draft."

Bruce Irvin & Patriots - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston


I am leaning towards the all red flag draft
Jenkins - CB
Irvin - DE/OLB
Worthy - DT

 

[mrscruff]

I don't think Irvin is going in the top two rounds but I do understand State's point. Guys like Poe and Hill this year suddenly move up a half to a full round based on athletic potential displayed at the combine. It's not like either of them have tape to back it up either. Yes Hill's system limited him but so perhaps did Irvin's. Personally I wouldn't elevate any of them just off the numbers but it weird how some players will create the buzz off a great combine and others won't. Perhaps it was the character issues but other character issues over the years have bumped way up just off a great combine.

Or perhaps it is about relative expectations regarding the combine. Irvin's speed is evident on game tape but with Dontari Poe and Stephen Hill both, who either had question marks over their competition level or concerns over their translation to the nfl, the combine showed that athletically at least they potentially have the tools to adapt to the game speed of the NFL.

 

[iapatsfan]

The league is now a passing league. I would be very happy if the Patriots took Irvin with any pick. With all of the rules coming out to protect receivers and QBs, explosive atheletes on the edge are becoming much more valuable than edge setting run stuffers. You can scheme to stop the run a lot easier than you can scheme to get after the QB. To do that you must have players that can win one on one battles. The Pats' problem is they have too few players that can do that. Irvin can do that as well as any player in this draft.

Last year teams threw on the Pats 619 times compared to 405 running plays. What good did "edge setters" do for us when teams threw over 60% of the time? With the Pats offense, teams will have to throw to keep up or catch up. The PAtriots averaged 32 pts/game last season. Teams are not going to consistently beat them running the ball at Bruce Irvin. In my opinion, the "edge setters" should now be the situational guys, and the players like Irvin be the primary three down men. If a team is a gashing you with running plays you put in your situational edge setter, instead of waiting for a Chad Henne to complete 12 passes in a row before you put in a pass rusher. The Pats need more explosive players in the front 7. Right now they have none. Irvin would change that.

 

[everlong]

Or perhaps it is about relative expectations regarding the combine. Irvin's speed is evident on game tape but with Dontari Poe and Stephen Hill both, who either had question marks over their competition level or concerns over their translation to the nfl, the combine showed that athletically at least they potentially have the tools to adapt to the game speed of the NFL.

Perhaps but I would say compete level is the biggest concern of all.

 

[borg]

BB never uses #1s on ILBs....until he drafted Mayo.
BB never uses #1s on OL....until he drafted Mankins.
BB would never go RB after his TD Tommy Vardell faux pas....until he drafted Maroney.
And now those that channel BB's psyche claim....No way BB ever uses a #1 on a pass rusher!!
Passing league, playing with the lead, multiple premium picks....BB can easily afford a one trick luxory. How much longer can he sign aging FAs to one year contracts. Lock up a young freak and lets put bounties on QBs......yeah baby.....the bell doth toll this year

 

[manxman2601]

The league is now a passing league. I would be very happy if the Patriots took Irvin with any pick. With all of the rules coming out to protect receivers and QBs, explosive atheletes on the edge are becoming much more valuable than edge setting run stuffers. You can scheme to stop the run a lot easier than you can scheme to get after the QB. To do that you must have players that can win one on one battles. The Pats' problem is they have too few players that can do that. Irvin can do that as well as any player in this draft.

Last year teams threw on the Pats 619 times compared to 405 running plays. What good did "edge setters" do for us when teams threw over 60% of the time? With the Pats offense, teams will have to throw to keep up or catch up. The PAtriots averaged 32 pts/game last season. Teams are not going to consistently beat them running the ball at Bruce Irvin. In my opinion, the "edge setters" should now be the situational guys, and the players like Irvin be the primary three down men. If a team is a gashing you with running plays you put in your situational edge setter, instead of waiting for a Chad Henne to complete 12 passes in a row before you put in a pass rusher. The Pats need more explosive players in the front 7. Right now they have none. Irvin would change that.

Well they helped get us to the SB for one.

 

[iapatsfan]

Well they helped get us to the SB for one.

Sorry, but we got there IN SPITE of them not BECAUSE of them. Using your logic I could say the Pats got to the Superbowl because of Sergio Brown. He was part of the team, right?

 

[conway]

I haven't seen enough of Irvin to offer an educated opinion, but I hope he's not red flagged bc of his past. The fact that he got in trouble as a juvenile means next to nothing. It's more than made up for by the fact that he got out and stayed out of trouble despite having limited prospects. Haven't heard the details of this destruction of property charge.

First, second, third, I don't know. I do know BB has his own board that he's not afraid to follow it, and whatever CBS Sports rates Irvin means about as much as how I rate him. We haven't seen BB draft too many (any?) PURE pass rushers early, but the game is constantly evolving and so is BB's personnel philosophy.

I think if we address safety at 27 and elect to keep 31, our current depth of talent affords us the luxury of drafting a guy that maybe only does one thing well, assuming it's exceedingly well. I read somewhere the BB philosophy is to not look at what a guy CAN'T do, but to focus on what he CAN. Maybe 31 is still too early, maybe way too early, but I wouldn't rule it out for a guy that has elite athleticism and respectable production.

Everyone's certainly talked Curry to death (same height, 20 lbs bigger) and he has far less athleticism and arguably less impressive tape. Between the 2, I'd take Irvin.

 

[MrNathanDrake]

wouldn't draft irwin until the 3rd.....

 

[manxman2601]

Sorry, but we got there IN SPITE of them not BECAUSE of them. Using your logic I could say the Pats got to the Superbowl because of Sergio Brown. He was part of the team, right?

Well no. When the Broncos stiffed us for about 784 rushing yards in the first quarter of the regular season game, it was the switch to a 3-4 and the disciplined edge setting that throttled Tebow's option game. A tactic they used effectively in the playoff game too - which then allowed us to put greater pressure on Tebow in the passing game. It was our edge setters that helped us prevent Ray Rice from dominating us in the AFCCG and forcing Joe Flacco to try and beat us. The fact that he nearly did was not a the presence of edge setters but of a woeful secondary, in particular the lack of any decent safety play.

And let's not forget, we DID have a pass rush last year. that our defense was statistically historically awful was not down to the lack of a pass rush (which we had), or down to our front 7 or edge setting. We stunk defensively because our secondary was so bad.

 

[iapatsfan]

Well no. When the Broncos stiffed us for about 784 rushing yards in the first quarter of the regular season game, it was the switch to a 3-4 and the disciplined edge setting that throttled Tebow's option game. A tactic they used effectively in the playoff game too - which then allowed us to put greater pressure on Tebow in the passing game. It was our edge setters that helped us prevent Ray Rice from dominating us in the AFCCG and forcing Joe Flacco to try and beat us. The fact that he nearly did was not a the presence of edge setters but of a woeful secondary, in particular the lack of any decent safety play.

And let's not forget, we DID have a pass rush last year. that our defense was statistically historically awful was not down to the lack of a pass rush (which we had), or down to our front 7 or edge setting. We stunk defensively because our secondary was so bad.

It was not difficult to come up with a strategy to shut down the Broncos offense. Tebow is a terrible example. There is a reason he is a back up this season. I really like the guy, and I appreciate what he is about, but I don't think that is a great example of what it takes to defend an NFL offense. The Pats' pass defense was as bad as I have ever seen, and this is despite playing against some of the worst passing QBs in the NFL. They played Sanchez twice, Henne, Matt Moore, Tebow, Jason Campbell, Palko, Orlovsky, Vince Young and Rex Grossman. Other than Sanchez (who is terrible), this is 8 games against QBs that will, most likely, not be starting next season. Henne threw for 416 yds, Jason Campbell, for 344, Vince young for 400, Moore for 281. I could go on and on. Their pass D was as bad as advertised, if not worse when you look at 10 of 16 games against these quarterbacks. They do not need edge setters. They need explosive edge rushers who can get after the QB. We can not expect Brady to keep having to outscore the worst QBs the NFL has to offer because our pass rush is so horrible.

The pass rush was horrible, regardless of what you say. Sure, the Pats got some sacks. That is inevitable, given the number of pass attempts against them (especially in the 2nd half of games), but they had nobody opposing offenses had to account for. They do not have an explosive playmaker in their front 7. A good pass D starts with the pass rush, not the DBs. They have spent several drafts trying to shore up the defensive backfield. Why not try to now add explosive playmakers on the edge? This is a position that BB has made little efffort to address in the draft. Cunningham, who was a reach, and who else? It's time to improe this area of the team

 

[Off The Grid]

The league is now a passing league. I would be very happy if the Patriots took Irvin with any pick. With all of the rules coming out to protect receivers and QBs, explosive atheletes on the edge are becoming much more valuable than edge setting run stuffers. You can scheme to stop the run a lot easier than you can scheme to get after the QB. To do that you must have players that can win one on one battles. The Pats' problem is they have too few players that can do that. Irvin can do that as well as any player in this draft.

Last year teams threw on the Pats 619 times compared to 405 running plays. What good did "edge setters" do for us when teams threw over 60% of the time? With the Pats offense, teams will have to throw to keep up or catch up. The PAtriots averaged 32 pts/game last season. Teams are not going to consistently beat them running the ball at Bruce Irvin.

In my opinion, the "edge setters" should now be the situational guys, and the players like Irvin be the primary three down men. If a team is a gashing you with running plays you put in your situational edge setter, instead of waiting for a Chad Henne to complete 12 passes in a row before you put in a pass rusher. The Pats need more explosive players in the front 7. Right now they have none. Irvin would change that.

I haven't seen enough of Irvin to offer an educated opinion, but I hope he's not red flagged bc of his past. The fact that he got in trouble as a juvenile means next to nothing. It's more than made up for by the fact that he got out and stayed out of trouble despite having limited prospects. Haven't heard the details of this destruction of property charge.

First, second, third, I don't know. I do know BB has his own board that he's not afraid to follow it, and whatever CBS Sports rates Irvin means about as much as how I rate him. We haven't seen BB draft too many (any?) PURE pass rushers early, but the game is constantly evolving and so is BB's personnel philosophy.

I think if we address safety at 27 and elect to keep 31, our current depth of talent affords us the luxury of drafting a guy that maybe only does one thing well, assuming it's exceedingly well. I read somewhere the BB philosophy is to not look at what a guy CAN'T do, but to focus on what he CAN. Maybe 31 is still too early, maybe way too early, but I wouldn't rule it out for a guy that has elite athleticism and respectable production.

Everyone's certainly talked Curry to death (same height, 20 lbs bigger) and he has far less athleticism and arguably less impressive tape. Between the 2, I'd take Irvin.

Absolutely terrific stuff, Gentlemen!! :rocker:

Bruce Irvin is a Force.

There's every reason to speculate, based on our best and experienced personnel, that the "43" Defense gets the biggest bite out of our Schematic Pie, this year.

That, right there, could give Irvin a ton of Snaps as a "43" Will Flanker.

And could he play inside in the "34"??

Man, I think he would be ferocious.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

I think people are severely underrating sub-package pass rushers. We already have lots of players who do multiple things pretty well. We need a specialist or two. If Bruce Irvin plays one down a series and helps us get off of the field on third downs, that beats the hell out of drafting another corner who gets cut two years later. First round is a little ridiculous considering his current projections, but I have no problem getting him in the 2nd if BB sees him as Mark Anderson's replacement.

Side note: Someone posted all of the plays of Matt Flynn's game against us in 2010 on the YouTube. JC was pretty solid coming off of the edge that game. If he could tackle, he would have had three sacks. Here's hoping he, along with a pass rusher or two, comes into training camp and sets the world on fire.

 

[State]

wouldn't draft irwin until the 3rd.....

That's the way I feel about the slow guy from Boise, Shea "Wait for me Brandon Spikes and Jermaine Cunningham" McClellin.

And notice they agree with both of us:

ProFootballWeekly.com - PFW's exclusive draft value chart

But the upside of Irvin is so very much higher than McClellin's. Compare their Combine results.