PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Time To Free Up Some Cap Room?


Status
Not open for further replies.
The holes in the defense may not be as many as you think though.
The 2012 New England Patriots defense with the relevant unrestricted free agent additions to date:

3-4 Defensive Alignment

3-4 RDE - Deaderick
3-4 NT - Wilfork, Love, Brace
3-4 LDE - ???

Defensive Line Pass Rush Specialists - Fanene, Pryor

3-4 ROLB - Ninkovich, ???
3-4 RILB - Mayo, Tarpinian?
3-4 LILB - Spikes, Fletcher
3-4 LOLB - Cunningham/Scott

Cornerbacks

LCB - McCourty. Moore
RCB - Dowling, Arrington
Nickel - Arrington
Dime - Cole

Safeties

SS - Chung, ???
FS - Gregory, ???

The safety position is extremely weak as well as the 3-4 outside linebacker position, since who knows what to expect from Jermaine Cunningham or Trevor Scott during the 2012 NFL Season. Andre Carter, if re-signed, could start the 2012 NFL Season on the PUP list. The New England Patriots defense needs a starting 3-4 left defensive end. Also, Jeff Tarpinian is a question mark at the backup 3-4 weak side inside linebacker position.
 
Last edited:
I'll be shocked if they trade away all the picks except for 2 of them......signing stop-gaps and fillers/camp fodder if fine but they can't constantly do that. Problem is outside of the 2010 draft haul we are lacking home-grown defensive talent along the D-Line and LB Core.

I think the FA approach they are taking with creating depth for competition will work hand in hand with staying put in the draft with balance in mind between BPA and "Position Needs" for the most part. Possibly a couple of trade ups for specific players within strike range with a trade-down on say only one pick(only if the price is right) the 31st or likely 61st picks to get back later picks missing in the 5th, 6th rounds and or for the annual BB future stock-piling
 
I don't disagree with you at all. I just don't believe that BB will rely on the draft as a way to fill basic needs. He'll do that with veterans. We won't fix problems with the draft, but we can take some shots at making the team better.

I think that's a very good way at looking at it.

That said, with at least 6, and probably a couple more picks through trades, I think it's probably safe to say that someone will make the team better. The odds of at least 2 players being able to contribute and make the team instantly better out of 6-7 are probably pretty good actually.

I agree with your thoughts about BB not relying on draft picks though. If that's the case and BB will target more vets, then we'll likely be trying to free up a bit of money in the process too. I don't think Belichick likes being over the cap by too far of a margin, and it seems as though he will likely make a few moves to combat that process since I would imagine we are probably moving closer to the number with the additions from today + Lloyd.

Then again, maybe he'll continue to be somewhat aggressive now with some lower level moves, especially if he has a good feeling on the potential Welker signing which would free up some money pretty quickly. I suppose a combo of both isn't out of the picture either.
 
The 2012 New England Patriots defense with the relevant unrestricted free agent additions to date:

3-4 Defensive Alignment

3-4 RDE - Deaderick
3-4 NT - Wilfork, Love, Brace
3-4 LDE - ???

Defensive Line Pass Rush Specialists - Fanene, Pryor

3-4 ROLB - Ninkovich/???
3-4 RILB - Mayo, Tarpinian?
3-4 LILB - Spikes, Cox
3-4 LOLB - Cunningham/Scott

Cornerbacks

LCB - McCourty. Moore
RCB - Dowling, Arrington
Nickel - Arrington
Dime - Cole

Safeties

SS - Chung, ???
FS - Gregory, ???

The safety position is extremely weak as well as the 3-4 outside linebacker position, since who knows what to expect from Jermaine Cunningham or Trevor Scott during the 2012 NFL Season. Andre Carter, if re-signed, could start the 2012 NFL Season on the PUP list. The New England Patriots defense needs a starting 3-4 left defensive end. Also, Jeff Tarpinian is a question mark at the 3-4 weak side inside linebacker position.

We're not even one week into the additons period.

The draft and the rest of the signing period will add to the depth and needs.

If we haven't lost too many players, and only added more--I would ask how they managed to do it last yr?

I still only see 4-5 empty spots in your groupings, which is precisely what I said in several posts.

I don't see how that's any different than any other team in the NFL.

Go look at the #1 passing defense/#3 overall defense in 2011, and tell me how many 'holes' they currently have.
 
Last edited:
The 2012 New England Patriots defense with the relevant unrestricted free agent additions to date:

3-4 Defensive Alignment

3-4 RDE - Deaderick
3-4 NT - Wilfork, Love, Brace
3-4 LDE - ???

Defensive Line Pass Rush Specialists - Fanene, Pryor

3-4 ROLB - Ninkovich, ???
3-4 RILB - Mayo, Tarpinian?
3-4 LILB - Spikes, Cox
3-4 LOLB - Cunningham/Scott

Cornerbacks

LCB - McCourty. Moore
RCB - Dowling, Arrington
Nickel - Arrington
Dime - Cole

Safeties

SS - Chung, ???
FS - Gregory, ???

The safety position is extremely weak as well as the 3-4 outside linebacker position, since who knows what to expect from Jermaine Cunningham or Trevor Scott during the 2012 NFL Season. Andre Carter, if re-signed, could start the 2012 NFL Season on the PUP list. The New England Patriots defense needs a starting 3-4 left defensive end. Also, Jeff Tarpinian is a question mark at the backup 3-4 weak side inside linebacker position.

I still don't see how this is any different to exactly what I said?

They need a couple/few additions in the draft, targeting front seven and safety; while also needing a couple/few additions in the free agency period, likely targeting the same.

At the end of everything, I am pretty sure that Belichick will be able to field a competitive team.

Some of you guys are acting like we didn't just go to the Super Bowl and have back to back #1 seeds in the past 2 yrs.

If they managed to have a middle of the road defense being 15th in pts allowed, and made great strides against top notch competition in the playoffs, then why wouldn't they be able to improve in a couple of areas with 5 picks in the first 100 choices, and a bunch of recent free agency signings--with only more to come?
 
We're not even one week into the additons period.
I'm not sure if there is any quality starting talent left in unrestricted free agency to make an impact on the defense.

The draft and the rest of the signing period will add to the depth and needs.
The aforementioned exercise was to seriously address the deficiencies in the New England Patriots defense. Hopefully, the New England Patriots will target these areas in the 2012 NFL Draft.

If we haven't lost too many players, and only added more--I would ask how they managed to do it last yr?
Tom Brady and the pass offense carried the team most of the year.

I still only see 4-5 empty spots in your groupings, which is precisely what I said in several posts.
Three impact starters at the 3-4 defensive end position, the 3-4 outside linebacker position, and at the safety position.

I don't see how that's any different than any other team in the NFL.
Other NFL teams did not field a historically poor pass defense (aside from the Green Bay Packers) as was the case with the New England Patriots during the 2011-12 NFL Season.

Go look at the #1 passing defense/#3 overall defense in 2010, and tell me how many 'holes' they currently have.
If the Houston Texans can turn around a poor pass defense in one season, why can't the New England Patriots?
 
Last edited:
Goodnight, fellas.

Don't mean to be a d!ck or take a hard lined stand, as I respect your opinions, and you know that.

Maybe we're as doomed as some make it out to be? If that's the case, I may start watching Nascar or something instead (I shudder at the thought).

I still only think the defense needs approx.4-5 players to improve on the team from last yr, and that Belichick knows what he's doing. Maybe I'm way off base, in which case I'll be more than happy to admit that.
 
I'm not sure if there is any quality starting talent left in unrestricted free agency to make an impact on the defense.

The aforementioned exercise was to seriously address the deficiencies in the New England Patriots defense. Hopefully, the New England Patriots will target these areas in the 2012 NFL Draft.

Tom Brady and the pass offense carried the team most of the year.

Three impact starters at the 3-4 defensive end position, the 3-4 outside linebacker position, and at the safety position.

Other NFL teams did not field a historically poor pass defense (aside from the Green Bay Packers) as was the case with the New England Patriots during the 2011-12 NFL Season.

If the Houston Texans can turn around a poor pass defense in one season, why can't the New England Patriots?

I don't think there's ever any shortage to the amount of players from FA and other teams that can contribute, Tip. Especially savvy vets. There will be many team cuts that occur later in the summer too, there always are. In the meantime, I am giving BB the benefit of the doubt that he can find a few guys on the line that are out there.

While I certainly agree that Brady and the offense carried the team last yr, if you didn't see the defense improve throughout the season (which is often a typical Belichick M.O.) then you were watching another team. They allowed less than 23 points in 18 of 19 games right? The only exception was vs BUF when Brady threw 4 INT's. In that instance, he certainly was not carrying the team. Averaged giving up about 18 at home too, IIRC.

When they gave up ONE touchdown to Manning, the 'big 3' WR's/TE's, and Bradshaw + Jacobs through the first 59:01 in the Super Bowl, yet Brady only managed to put up 17 points (and actually may have outright cost us the game with the safety and the ridiculous INT), he was certainly not carrying the team then either.

I get what you're saying. The secondary was piss poor. That needs to be addressed. I think it was when the safety position was shored up and the schemes changed a bit, that they looked a lot better. Injuries were also a concern. If worst comes to worst with the safeties again, I would expect Belichick to do the same exact thing that we've seen 1,000x before---make do with what we have. Hopefully those options are improved and we don't have to be a lousy secondary anymore, hopefully they can be more middle tier.

I never claimed one time that the NEP can't turn around their secondary, as a matter of fact I have said the complete opposite about 100x now in various threads. My point was to look at the Steelers (2011, I revised the post). They had the #1 pass defense last yr + one of the top few overall defenses, yet you don't think they have some holes this year? Just like any other team.

My main point was that the defense wasn't in as bad of shape as some posters are making it out to be. I personally don't see a "ton of holes" like some say. I see a team that has the main core from last year that needs to improve in the secondary. I also see 5 picks in the top 100 choices.

Most importantly, I see March 20 on the calander. There's plenty of time to address the vet additons that need to be made on the D-line. There's also plenty of time to address some of the needs via the draft. At the end of the day, I still don't see more than 4-5 spots that need upgraded. That's my opinion, and I could be very wrong. Maybe the defense will set new NFL lows in pts allowed and be the laughingstock of the league, but in this case I am seeing reason for optimism. Much like you, I am also 'cautiously optimistic' too, so it's not like I am a big homer.

We'll have to see how it shakes out.
 
Last edited:
Don't mean to be a d!ck or take a hard lined stand, as I respect your opinions, and you know that.
You're not and I appreciate your opinions.

Maybe we're as doomed as some make it out to be? If that's the case, I may start watching Nascar or something instead (I shudder at the thought).
The New England Patriots defense is not doomed and by the way the New England Patriots are due for a great defensive draft.

I still only think the defense needs approx.4-5 players to improve on the team from last yr, and that Belichick knows what he's doing. Maybe I'm way off base, in which case I'll be more than happy to admit that.
If Devin McCourty reverts back to his rookie form, that will resolve one of the two starting cornerback positions.
 
The "problem" is that we do not know the position of those that will contribute. There are two reasonable solutions.

1) Go into the draft without any real "needs". In that way, we can be flexible in drafting, the 2 will be a major plus, and there will be no huge holes unfilled.

2) Go into the draft with one real "need" that "must be met through the draft. This strategy may require the use of a mid to high first or the use of 2 picks to make sure the need is addressed. IN recent years, we have doubled up on TE's and RB's. We also have doubled up on defensive backs under Belichick.

These strategies have served the patriots well.
================
In hindsight, last year we failed at safety. This was the result of many issues. First, Belichick apparently mis-evaluated his veterans, ending up cutting both Sanders and Meriweather. Certainly, if he knew that these players were not likely to be on the team, he would have addressed this issue in the draft and/or free agency. Secondly, Belichick mis-evaluated his upcoming "talent". Belichick counted on both Barrett and Brown to step up and be significant contributors. Belichick was forced to have his one success to start. Yes, Ihedigbo was a success. He was a signed as a special teamer, who could provide some emergency depth. Unfortunately, he was asked to do much more than he was capable of. However, the presence of Ihedigbo was a major plus.

I recall this issue at length because the effect is still with us. We usually carry four safeties, 3 who should be getting all the reps, and one backup for depth. Sometimes, we also carry a special teamer, labeled a safety, who we really do not want on the field getting reps.

As was the case last year, we start with Chung. We have added Gregory, who by all evaluations seems to be a possible #3 safety. Given our need, we need him to be a major contributor at present. In normal times, we would add 2-3 more safeties in free agency and in the draft, hoping to find enough help to fill the glaring need. But there is little help to be had. It seems that this position is likely to be our major weakness yet again. And yes, all teams have weaknesses.

At very minimum, we should expect to find another 1-2 safeties in free agency and draft 1-2 safeties.

.

The odds of at least 2 players being able to contribute and make the team instantly better out of 6-7 are probably pretty good actually.
 
Last edited:
The current defense doesn't need much help.... assuming they all stay healthy all year, which won't happen. In addition to a couple of guys who can get after the QB, they need depth which they can get in the draft.

If they grab a D lineman or two and a CB/Safety/ST ace they will be in good shape.
 
The current defense doesn't need much help.... assuming they all stay healthy all year, which won't happen. In addition to a couple of guys who can get after the QB, they need depth which they can get in the draft.

If they grab a D lineman or two and a CB/Safety/ST ace they will be in good shape.

I feel good about where we're going on defense and I think Belichick does too.

A lot of people say we're desperate for a corner which we really aren't. Would I be happy with McCourty, Arrington, Dowling and Moore? Absolutely. We need a FS (I'd like a corner who can play both like Josh Robinson or Trumaine Johnson) and some depth guys but that's about it. On Moore, when the Raiders picked him up I was disappointed and when they let him go I was both shocked and said we should target him. Guy was always a sleeper and the Pats need to keep this guy for a few years.

We could do with a couple more D Linemen. I'd like the Pats to trade up for a guy on the DL and bring in Luis Castillo. If we did one of the two ro both I would be ecstatic. The only guys worth moving up for or even contemplating a 1st round choice for me are Ingram, Coples, Cox, Perry, Poe and maybe Still. I'd settle for any of those. I'll puke if we take Brockers.

Belichick's strategy is clear this FA. He wants depth to add to what he has. He just made the Super Bowl and I'm willing to bet that this is one of the better all-round 'teams' he's had the privilege of coaching. Our pass rush saw improvements last year but it needs to be more consistent...if it becomes more consistent we'll be laughing.
 
We're are into Day 7 of fee agency.

We've re-signed 5 players (including Love) and signed 10 free agents from other teams.
We have done well with our cap space! It seems likely that some move may need to be made soon.

Good luck with that since there are not many candidates for restructure on this roster. Brady's deal really should not be touched since his cap hits in 2013 and 2014 top $18M. So unless they want to pony up on an early extension tacking on 2 more years in excess of $18M...it wouldn't appear to be prudent to tinker with Brady's hits via simple restructure which are already at or above the top of Belichick's QB comfort zone over the next two seasons even if the cap jumps to $140M in 2014.

Welker's deal can't be cap friendly unless they go to 4 years for amortization. 3 years just isn't going to do it on a deal with $20M+ guaranteed, which is what it will almost certainly take to get a deal done. If they went 4/$36 with an $18M signing bonus they could have a cap hit this year of $6.5M (and hits of $7.5, $10.5 and $11.5 remaining with dead cap of $4.5M and cap savings if cut in 2015 of $7.5M, although he might by then be willing to remain at a reduced salary - say 50% and a cap hit of $8M). That would save them $3M in cap space this season (and potentially $4.5M over re-tagging him in 2013).

Mankins deal isn't structured for much savings since his salary this season is only $3M and a simple conversion restructure would only net $400K.

Same deal with Mayo. His big money this season is a fully guaranteed option bonus so that is already been applied to the cap including retroactively.

Wilfork could restructure and net them $2M+.

Ocho could be cut and net them $1.75 (by treating him as a June 1 cut).

So $4M in simple restructures/cuts and $3M on a Welker long term deal.

Then there is Light but it's debatable how much savings there would be unless he paid back half of his signing bonus due to retirement. I think that is where Bedard may have come up with his high figure of $8M, while it would appear if cut (or retired and not asked to refund half of his signing bonus) the saving would be $3.5M in salary. But if reports are correct that he was guaranteed $7M the signing bonus point would be moot since they'd owe him the money either way. So $3.5M in salary and cap would appear to be what you save on Light if he's gone. And they don't appear to have any leverage to get him to lower that salary because of the guarantee. He probably wouldn't come back and endure the grind of another season for less. And given the Mankins news coupled with the Mario signing in the division, not sure they will be as anxious as anticipated to move on to Solder.
 
Good post Mo.

Plus, we really don't need any more space. We have enough left for our rookies, and maybe resign a couple guys like Carter/Branch/Warren as camp approaches.

We plugged the holes on the roster as best we could in free agency and added a tremendous amount of depth to a team that was one play, or one player, away from a title.

We are the only [real] playoff team who has made significant improvements to our roster. And we have the most draft ammunition of any playoff team.

Fans should be very happy with this offseason. Watch that bitter taste of being painfully close to another ring turn into determination, combine that with a very productive offseason and a young team that was already on the rise, and I think we have the best set of circumstances we've seen on this team since the spring of 2007.
 
Last edited:
The odds of adding a player to the defense that will make a significant difference in this upcoming year are less than 50% even if we use three picks in the first two rounds.

I disagree.

The Patriots added Carter last year, and he made quite a difference. I think you could call his addition significant.
Anderson was a significant addition.

In 2010, Devin McCourty and Brandon Spikes joined as rookies. They made a significant impact that season.

In 2009, Leigh Bodden, Darius Butler, Shawn Springs, and Patrick Chung really reshaped the secondary. That was significant.

In 2008, Jerod Mayo was added and stabilized the ILB spot.
And so forth.
 
The odds of adding a player to the defense that will make a significant difference in this upcoming year are less than 50% even if we use three picks in the first two rounds.

How do you figure? Spikes, Mayo, McCourty...the recent track record suggests Belichick is ready to put these guys into prime time roles. Dowling was on that track until the injury.

And getting Dowling back healthy is like a 3rd first rounder.
 
Good luck with that since there are not many candidates for restructure on this roster.

Not many candidates for cuts that create cap room either, except for Ocho.
 
Good post Mo.

Plus, we really don't need any more space. We have enough left for our rookies, and maybe resign a couple guys like Carter/Branch/Warren as camp approaches.

We plugged the holes on the roster as best we could in free agency and added a tremendous amount of depth to a team that was one play, or one player, away from a title.

We are the only [real] playoff team who has made significant improvements to our roster. And we have the most draft ammunition of any playoff team.

Fans should be very happy with this offseason. Watch that bitter taste of being painfully close to another ring turn into determination, combine that with a very productive offseason and a young team that was already on the rise, and I think we have the best set of circumstances we've seen on this team since the spring of 2007.

Actually we may be getting tight. Jason at jetcap has us at $118.4M for top 51 plus dead cap on an adjusted cap of around $128.9. But that does not yet include Lloyd, Fanene, Gallery, Fells, Scott, Cole or Stallworth. Those deals will likely eat up $5 million plus even with adjustment for replacing current top 51 since a couple of them are multi year deals averaging in the $2-3M range that will likely hit this years cap in excess of $1M. Eventually we have to have space for the rookie cap, and ours will be on the high side pending what he trades out of...

So if he's still interested in retaining Benny and Carter and/or Anderson let alone coveting any other potential cuts or remaining FA... And I do expect him to bring Branch back.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/23: News and Notes
MORSE: Final 7 Round Patriots Mock Draft, Matthew Slater News
Bruschi’s Proudest Moment: Former LB Speaks to MusketFire’s Marshall in Recent Interview
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/22: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-21, Kraft-Belichick, A.J. Brown Trade?
MORSE: Patriots Draft Needs and Draft Related Info
Friday Patriots Notebook 4/19: News and Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf’s Pre-Draft Press Conference 4/18/24
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/18: News and Notes
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/17: News and Notes
Back
Top