upgrade over BJGE isn't nessesary

[letekro]

I know it was a different era, but take a look at Sam Cunningham's numbers before you rip Law Firm's too badly:

Sam Cunningham NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Or Mike Alstott's

Mike Alstott NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Here are BJGE's in the same format:

BenJarvus Green-Ellis NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

This is completely meaningless. BJGE is the absolute last thing any defense facing the patriots is worried about. What happens if they totally ignore him, a 5 yard gain? Defenses are willing to concede that against the Patriots. Defenses were focused on stopping Cunningham and Alstott. Don't you see how that makes all the difference in the world?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

A huge upgrade over Benny isn't necessary, but an upgrade would be helpful in taking the pressure off the passing game. Pass to score, run to win. Supposedly the Pats have an offer on the table for Benny but it's not one he is ready to consider until he tests the market. It's likely for about what he made on the RFA tender last year times 2-3 seasons. I think that would be about right for a guy who had to claw his way onto a 53 and stuck because he does all the little things (blocking, ball security, effort) well on a team that struggles to fill that committee spot.

He's not a move the pile guy though and that's what they really need. Unfortunately most of those guys aren't affordable until they are entering their personal back 9, which for RB can be earlier and more problematic than even WR. Which is why so many teams have opted for more of a committee approach of late. Bill has tried to add that guy via FA more than once but his only success was Dillon and even that was short lived. Fred Taylor was supposed to be that guy 2.0 and he never really got on the field. It's a tough role to fill since guys who can know their clock is ticking faster than most and they want to maximize their earnings in a limited window.

I don't think anyone will offer him substantially more than we are. KC might like his intangibles, but whether Scott will persue a NE FA Bill hopes to retain is another matter.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'm loving the thought Reiss had about Michael Bush. 27 years old. Fumbles once every 180 touches. 243 lbs. Can catch the ball out of the backfield and is a move the pile guy. Would be a nice addition and someone they can give carries to if Vereen and Ridley can't answer the bell.

Just not sure what $ he wants makes sense for this team's offensive system.

Clearly he'd be an upgrade over BJGE.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I'm loving the thought Reiss had about Michael Bush. 27 years old. Fumbles once every 180 touches. 243 lbs. Can catch the ball out of the backfield and is a move the pile guy. Would be a nice addition and someone they can give carries to if Vereen and Ridley can't answer the bell.

Just not sure what $ he wants makes sense for this team's offensive system.

Clearly he'd be an upgrade over BJGE.

Maybe, remember in Bush you have a back that will not pick up the blitz and offers about the same in the passing game,but will not help any on ST.

Both Bush and Green Ellis are complimentary backs, unfortunately for us, we do not have the main RB. Ridley puts the rock on the turf too much, BB hates that and Vereen is ideally suited to be the kick off returner and maybe a compliment to Woodhead,if he ever learns to pick up the blitz.

 

[Whorod]

I was at the game where Vereen got a chance to play (KC). He had a nice burst, and his combine numbers look solid compared to most of the RB class this year. I hope he gets a chance, and shows he can be a potential big play guy. The Pats need to show that if you ignore the run, they won't get 4 yards, but that on any given run, they could get 25. That would change the whole dynamic of this offense. I also agree that I really hope Josh decides to reintroduce the screen game to this offense. Brees gets so many easy 30 yard plays off of their screen game and play action designs. The Pats should take a page out of their book (I really miss Charlie Weis).

 

[RobertWeathers]

Maybe, remember in Bush you have a back that will not pick up the blitz and offers about the same in the passing game,but will not help any on ST.

Meh. Blitz pickup is coaching. He catches the ball just fine for a 243 lb RB.

Both Bush and Green Ellis are complimentary backs, unfortunately for us, we do not have the main RB. Ridley puts the rock on the turf too much, BB hates that and Vereen is ideally suited to be the kick off returner and maybe a compliment to Woodhead,if he ever learns to pick up the blitz.

Way too negative. Bush would be a clear upgrade over BJGE.

Ridley showed promise last year and if he can correct the ball security issues, he'll be a stud.

I don't think your assessment of Vereen is accurate. They drafted him to be a 100-150 carry guy who can handle kickoffs and punts and has superior physical talent to Woody.

All in all, with both kids having a second year in the system the backfield in 2012 should be an instant upgrade from 2011.

 

[Joey007]

All I know is, we need to improve our ground game in some way. I'm watching Pats-Colts 2006 AFCCG our ground game was solid back in those days with Dillon and with Maroney (he had a good rookie year, but that was it) so that was when Brady had the ground game to rely on and that's when he was a young player in the SB days. Now in Brady later years he needs the ground game that he can rely on like in the past.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

All I know is, we need to improve our ground game in some way. I'm watching Pats-Colts 2006 AFCCG our ground game was solid back in those days with Dillon and with Maroney (he had a good rookie year, but that was it) so that was when Brady had the ground game to rely on and that's when he was a young player in the SB days. Now in Brady later years he needs the ground game that he can rely on like in the past.

Actually it wasn't. And to some extent I think the problem was systemic. After 2005 Bill knew he had a problem with the Dillon signing. Rather than replace him though he tried to salvage the signing by adopting the committee system, which in and of itself wasn't a bad plan except that Bill opted for divergent backs, thunder and lightening (who would be his home run hitter in space where Dillon was now useless). But the fact that old thunder was tapping out more and more and the fact that we couldn't really zone block effectively for lightening without unwieldy personnel swaps on OL and the emerging tendency we were adopting to use multiple skill personnel groupings while running all sets out of any of them led to the square peg round hole conundrum that was Maroney's early undoing as he got hurt doing Dillon's job along the goal line and in short yardage. They went through these maddeningly long in game stretches where I recall it always seemed they had the wrong guy on the field in given situations and seemed unable to reset the rotation. By the time the playoffs rolled around both guys were basically toast. 56 carries, 206 yards between the two of them in 3 games. 3.6 yard average. Just wasn't going to cut it.

I think Bill is still hung up on the home run hitter when IMO what he really needs is the move the pile back and a decent backup which is what Benny could be. He's got the scat back to use in space although that guy is more quick than breakaway fast. I fear Riddley and Vareen are going to be redundant lightening bolts at best and if they can't secure the ball or block well enough to keep Tommy from getting killed they aren't going to be on the field enough to make the formula work. Which is kind of what we just witnessed.

 

[Daigle]

Dont underestimate BJGE. Not droping the ball is actually really good. It worked 2010 but not this year. I think we didnt block as good as 2010 and part of that could be Koppen missing and Maybe Waters since I didnt see us running behind him that much.

As I always say this year, better O-line is what we need. Cant have a good enough O-line.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

He could be upgraded, but not before

- Getting a legit FS
- Getting an impact DE
- WR2 (hopefully Lloyd as has been discussed)

Then I'd lump impact RB in with lower needs like

-G/C in case Connolly/Waters don't return and Cannon isn't ready yet
-OLB
-CB if Dowling doesn't return healthy or if they decide to move McCourty to FS

Some argue 2003 and 2007 among our best teams, if not they are definitely both top 3 and we had JAGS at RB both years. BJGE is better than both those RB's, he can be upgraded but it's far down the priority list IMO.

 

[patsderoer]

He's not a move the pile guy though and that's what they really need. Unfortunately most of those guys aren't affordable until they are entering their personal back 9, which for RB can be earlier and more problematic than even WR.

I agree that the Pats need a move the pile guy, a bulldozer, and Hilis would be perfect.
Cleveland Browns P.M. links: Peyton Hillis tied for 1st in NFL in most yards-gained-per-carry after contact | cleveland.com
According to ESPN Stats & Information, Hillis is tied with Maurice Jones-Drew for the most yards after contact (2.8) among running backs with at least 50 carries

Cannot be stopped by only 1 guy, as the former coach of Raiders said.
"I know this guy is a sensational runner," Jackson said. "He’s one of the better big backs in this league. One hit doesn’t bring this guy down. You have to gang tackle him. One guy can’t bring him down."
Shurmur Re-Iterates That Peyton Hillis Will See Bulk of Carries Against Raiders - Dawgs By Nature

He is also a great catcher in the backfield, a good blocker, always falls forward, a big goal line threat, a powerback for short yardage situations. And he is still young, entering his prime. Perfect for the Pats.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

No thanks. I think Josh traded him away for good reason.

 

[Snake Eyes]

No thanks. I think Josh traded him away for good reason.

Exactly what reason was that?

 

[Fencer]

Bottom line: We have Pro Bowlers at 3 offensive skill positions, and a near Pro Bowler at a 4th. We don't NEED more than competence at the other 2.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

Bottom line: We have Pro Bowlers at 3 offensive skill positions, and a near Pro Bowler at a 4th. We don't NEED more than competence at the other 2.

Of course we don't NEED it but that doesn't mean an upgrade should be considered out of the question. I agree that we are ok if BJE re-signs but it would be wrong not to at least consider a better player if the right fit presents itself.