Free Agency: Who do you want?

[IllegalContact]

well....it is obvious this team need WR's.....but then again, this team has needed OLB's for 5 years now and who do they have?

looking at how brady has progressed (or regressed) as a QB, I would say they need to get the best C on the market and the best RG (assuming waters retires)...brady needs to be able to work in a petri dish, so protecting him is job 1 or else he will go the way of bledsoe.

we have a team that is very good at beating mediocre teams but struggled in every game against a good team. this team needs alot

 

[SeymourTrophies]

Just posted it in a similar "team needs" type thread but the guy to target is Mario Williams. Turned 27 years old a week ago, has the versatility to play in the 4-3 or 3-4 and is exactly the kind of defensive difference maker that we lack. Vince and Mayo are damn good football players but it's difficult at their positions to influence the game as much as a guy like JPP or Tuck or Mario Williams can in a league that has become extremely pass happy. Considering how young he is, it's rare to have a guy like this become a FA. Usually guys this talented hit FA at 30 like Peppers, Nnamdi and Adalius.

At 27, he's probably got another 4-5 elite years which matches up with the Brady (and possibly Belichick?) window.

No way do the Texans let him sniff free agency, but he would be epic. We'd see the Elephant role make a comeback. Our real issue is the lack of playmakers on defense. Mario Williams, or Mario Williams' left pinky toe, would change a lot of things in the trenches. We saw Vince get doubled all night long and Brandon Spikes was the only one who could consistently win his 1v1 matchup.

 

[LoganMankinsPancakeBlocks]

No way do the Texans let him sniff free agency, but he would be epic. We'd see the Elephant role make a comeback. Our real issue is the lack of playmakers on defense. Mario Williams, or Mario Williams' left pinky toe, would change a lot of things in the trenches. We saw Vince get doubled all night long and Brandon Spikes was the only one who could consistently win his 1v1 matchup.

Media reports are that there's a pretty good chance he hits the market. I've seen conflicting reports, but word is it will cost them either $16M or $22M to franchise him. If it's $22M, forget about it. $16M, I tend to doubt that as well considering they will be sending Brooks Reed to the bench, as well as eating up all that salary.

Typically you'd say exactly what you did: no way do the Texans let him hit the market. But they may not have much of a choice, which makes this a rare opportunity and one I hope the Pats jump all over.

The rest of the holes (WR, C, DB) can be filled through the draft.

 

[Sivy]

I was going to post a thread about the offseason, but I will just post it here

Does anoyne else REALLY love of the offseason now, almost like its another sport all together? WIth twitter, and all things internet, its really awesome to follow.

 

[serifyn]

The pass to Slater was a bad throw. That's one. Brady got nailed and couldn't follow through on the pass to Gronk. So, if your argument is that Brady is less accurate when getting hit simulataneously, I would agree. That INT wasn't even a huge deal in the game because if that falls incomplete, we probably punt after a 3rd and long. We would have been lucky to see Mesko place that ball quite as deep. God forbid we expect our defense to not give up 3 first downs before we even think about making a stop.

How about the Branch throw against Denver, the Hernandez throw against Buffalo, and the Ocho throw in Denver? Or are we counting those as intermediate passes? Welker vs. Jets?

The Brandon Lloyd obsession is out of hand. He has one pretty good season after being a mediocre malcontent, and then he's traded for a 5th round pick. Is Chad Jackson available?

I dont know why it is so difficult to accept that Brady may have lost power or accuracy, hes 34 now, i think the coaches know what they can get out of brady, they see him in practice all the time, this year you rarely see Brady throw a pass greater than 20 yards.

on NFL network before the Superbowl they were breaking down Tom's passes over 20 yards through the season and you could see him missing wide open guys, or throwing interceptions because it wasent powerful enough.

if your arguement is that Brady is just fine and can still throw the ball as well as he did in 2007 there is plenty of evidence against that, this year and the last.

I could see Brady having a really rough year in 2012 and i think the offense needs to focus on building the run game, not the pass game. so i say dump OC, draft a WR in the second round and bring back branch, then get a good center and start running the ball with Ridley and possibly Vereen.

 

[tatepatsfan]

We've got to upgrade at WR. I'd like to see Branch back, but we need a big guy who can stretch the field. Lloyd seems reasonable. I'd still like to look at DeSean Jackson (who is a free agent). I realize he was a headcase all of this year, but I think if he's on a winning team and gets paid, he'd behave. He's probably out of our price range though, so someone like Lloyd looks a lot more realistic.

We absolutely must add at least one CB and one S. Don't forget we'll be getting Dowling back next year. Moore seems to have played well enough to merit a roster spot. Arrington is legit. Ihedigbo is a backup at best. Chung is above average.

I'd like to see Carter and Anderson back. I have a feeling only one of the two will be, but both would be ideal. I think our d-line played pretty well down the stretch. Warren is probably gone and will need to be replaced. Linebackers could definitely be upgraded for depth. I think we can all be pleased with the trio of Ninkovich, Spikes and Mayo. But after that, I think it falls off hard.

We look great at OT, although Light won't be around forever. I'm not sure how long Waters' contract runs, but he's been great this year. It'll be interesting to see what we do with Koppen.

Curious about BJGE. Many of us predicted he might have a big game last night, but it was obvious that Belichick preferred the smaller, quicker Woodhead against the Giants. I'm not even sure if Ridley played at all? That being said, he's still never fumbled and is a solid RB. Probably depends on his price tag.

Mario Williams is a dream target. I'd give it about a 1% chance of happening, but he would be a very exciting addition.

 

[DonBlackmon55]

Media reports are that there's a pretty good chance he hits the market. I've seen conflicting reports, but word is it will cost them either $16M or $22M to franchise him. If it's $22M, forget about it. $16M, I tend to doubt that as well considering they will be sending Brooks Reed to the bench, as well as eating up all that salary.

Typically you'd say exactly what you did: no way do the Texans let him hit the market. But they may not have much of a choice, which makes this a rare opportunity and one I hope the Pats jump all over.

The rest of the holes (WR, C, DB) can be filled through the draft.

Two words - - NO CHANCE

Pats don't play like that. BB mentality is better to add 3-4 guys @ 3-4Mill than 1 for 16mill....Carter and Anderson prime examples.

 

[letekro]

I dont know why it is so difficult to accept that Brady may have lost power or accuracy, hes 34 now, i think the coaches know what they can get out of brady, they see him in practice all the time, this year you rarely see Brady throw a pass greater than 20 yards.

on NFL network before the Superbowl they were breaking down Tom's passes over 20 yards through the season and you could see him missing wide open guys, or throwing interceptions because it wasent powerful enough.

if your arguement is that Brady is just fine and can still throw the ball as well as he did in 2007 there is plenty of evidence against that, this year and the last.

I could see Brady having a really rough year in 2012 and i think the offense needs to focus on building the run game, not the pass game. so i say dump OC, draft a WR in the second round and bring back branch, then get a good center and start running the ball with Ridley and possibly Vereen.

Some people here think Brady walks on water. Fact is, he has NEVER thrown the deep ball well and he is just not a good touch passer. He is at is best rifling the ball between 5 and 20 yards down field. He is probably the most accurate passer in this area in the NFL, and he does it with great velocity, but he can't throw a fade, and he can't throw a deep ball with touch. Nobody is perfect.

 

[Heisenberg]

I see our most glaring need in FA as the return game. I don't know who's available but I'd like to see us bring in somebody who can actually return a kickoff past the 30 once in awhile. It was absolutely brutal this year watching Woodhead and Edelman indecisively trot out to the 15-20 MAYBE 25 yard line before getting tackled by the first person that touches them. We put such a high emphasis on ball control and field position yet we have nobody who can bring the ball out of the end zone on a kickoff and make a game-changing play. I thought we were due at some point last night, but it was simply a lack of talent back there, not a question of being due.

I like the direction the D is heading, though we do need an upgrade at safety, assuming McCourty actually plays corner next year. Ihedigbo is a great story but he's really no more than a backup at this point. Hopefully Dowling can play and Sterling Moore can keep it up. Kid's been a stud. I like McCourty, Arrington, Moore and Dowling as our stable of corners. All young and assumedly getting better with more experience. Spikes and Mayo are gonna be a sick combo in the middle for the near future. Wilfork is a beast and I like what I see out of Love and Deaderick. If we could bring in Mathis I'd be all for it, but our D line is solid. A few tweaks and I see our D being championship quality. We're close as it is. Doesn't seem like it but they gave up 10, 20 and 19 in the playoffs this year. That's usually good enough.

On offense I'd like to see us let Faulk, Ocho and Branch go. I like BJGE but I'm sure we'll be outbid for him. Feature Ridley next year and see what kind of player Vereen is. Either sign or Franchise Welker. I puked in my mouth last night when he dropped that ball, but let's not get crazy, he's one of the best players the Pats have had since this run began and he's absolutely integral in getting back to the Super Bowl in the next few years. Bring in Brandon Lloyd if possible. I'd feel a lot more comfortable with Lloyd than trying to address the WR issue in the draft.

Last night was a tough one to swallow but we're in a great spot right now. We have some cap flexibility, a ton of youth that seems to be progressing and Tom still has a few more elite years ahead of him. Nail a couple of our draft picks this year, bring in a player or two on each side of the ball and we're golden.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Saw this thread on another site (SoSH), and thought it would be a good idea here.

I realize that the pain is still super fresh for all of us, but what better way to talk about how we can get back to the show next year and win it? The re-tooling of the roster starts now. Who do you want?

i don't think it's going to make much of a difference. once you lose a super bowl, for whatever reason it takes teams a while to get back. after 07', it took the pats 4 years to get back. when was the last time a team went back to the super bowl after losing it? buffalo bills - 4 times.

i honestly think this was the last shot that the pats had of getting a 4th super bowl. by the time this team figures it out, Brady will be close to 40 and BB is going to retire. Super bowl defeats are crushing. It's not a matter of simply signing a few guys and fix some problem areas. Injuries are going to happen. players are going to leave via free agency. the mental pscyhe of this team is low right now and i can't see them getting their swagger back any time soon.

 

[LoganMankinsPancakeBlocks]

Two words - - NO CHANCE

Pats don't play like that. BB mentality is better to add 3-4 guys @ 3-4Mill than 1 for 16mill....Carter and Anderson prime examples.

Well, I wouldn't say no chance, I'd just say it's unlikely. There have been exceptions to what you say when difference makers have been available.

Adalius was the top FA available, Belichick deemed him a great fit and went after him aggressively. When Peppers was available, word was that the Patriots were in on him. Not enough to land him but in on him nonetheless. Williams is the same kind of talent those guys were, and he's 3 years younger. It's also getting later in the game for Belichick and Brady and I wonder if that causes Belichick to be a little more aggressive.

But if not Mario, they should still be able to put together a pretty solid pass rush still. It's a good class with Mario/Carter/Anderson as well as potentially Cliff Avril, Robert Mathis, John Abraham and rumors of Dwight Freeney being available through trade.

 

[makoute]

Some people here think Brady walks on water. Fact is, he has NEVER thrown the deep ball well and he is just not a good touch passer. He is at is best rifling the ball between 5 and 20 yards down field. He is probably the most accurate passer in this area in the NFL, and he does it with great velocity, but he can't throw a fade, and he can't throw a deep ball with touch. Nobody is perfect.

Do not say that too loud, you will be run out of this place, when the fact is that Brady has NEVER been good at throwing the ball deep, and that has been the case since he came into this league.

 

[ivanvamp]

Look at Brady's Recent Deep passes, all of them are weak, dying quail inaccurate. The Slater pass/interception in the AFCCG and the deep interception to Gronk in the SB are great examples of this, Brady has lost power and accuracy and if he cant reliably deliver them next year it wont matter who you bring in here, good defenses wont need to put safety help on deep threat WRs because any corner in the league can make a play on those balls.

How about that deep ball to Branch against the Broncos in the divisional round? That was a laser right on target.

Brady has *never* been a tremendously accurate deep thrower. But it's not like he hasn't hit some.

 

[upstater1]

Brady is one of the most inaccurate long ball throwers in the league. In fact, Brady has a limited repetoire of throws. There is the 15-20 yard seam. The 10 yard out, and various short routes over the middle. He does not throw a good deep ball, a good fade, or any other kind of pass that requires a lot of touch. What he can throw, he has tremendous accuracy with, but he is limited in some respects.

He must have forgotten how to do those things then, because about 6 or 7 or 8 years ago he had a great long ball, and threw to the sidelines often, and had great touch. How soon we forget. When Patten and Givens were around, they had great sideline patterns. When Moss was around, he threw downfield.

People think Eli has more touch on long throws? Watch the great Manningham catch again, watch him running. You think he ran at a dead spring? No. He slowed down, adjusted to the ball, timed it perfectly. Something that Patriots receivers cannot do. You really think Manning fit that into a one foot window? I give Eli a lot of credit for the game yesterday, but Manningham deserved 98% of the credit for that catch. Watch him slow down and adjust.

 

[Remix 6]

Well for FA / Draft we need:

1. Big play WR [Top FA: Dwayne Bowe, Pierre Garcon, Mario Manningham, Vincent Jackson, DeSean Jackson, Robert Meachem, Mike Wallace (RFA) ]


2. Lockdown CB [Top FA: Carlos Rogers, Cortland Finnegan, Tracy Porter , Ladarius Webb (RFA)]


3. Young pass rushers [Top DE FA: John Abraham, Cliff Avril, Adam Carriker, Robert Mathis, Jeremy Mincey]


There are plenty of good WRs but I think our priority is to resign Welker. Bowe is a big physical WR as is Vincent Jackson but that'll cost a lot. DeSean is overrated, Mike Wallace is someone I would honestly give up a 1st and a 3rd if thats what it took. It is a late 1st and we have another one as we have 2 second rounders as well. Meachem is injury prone but comes from a big / complex offense while Garcon makes some dumb plays at times but also makes some big ones. Manningham torched us and I dont see him getting paid enough in NY so he is a possibility. Question is can some of these guys come in and contribute in a timing offense?

These CB's will probably cost a lot of money and Webb is an RFA. Porter and Finnegan aren't really lock down so I wouldn't overpay. I'd take Bodden back if his back is all healed up and if he is willing to come back.

The DE's I mentioned, some of them are older towards end of career but can still contribute. I'd rather resign Anderson & Carter if possible but we need either a starter or a young talent on the outside that we can develop. Cliff Avril would be nice but that is going to be costly. The draft certainly has some explosive pass rushers that we should target.

Some OLB pass rushers can also fit in if we stick with a 3-4 and it'd be names like Manny Lawson, Quentin Groves, Anthony Spencer and Mario Williams. These guys are younger than the DE options I listed but essentially play the same spots. Mario Williams is a dream scenario as a DE or OLB while the other guys are solid rushers but not elite.

 

[serifyn]

you mean the one where branch had to stop and elbow push his cb off in order to catch the ball?

look bro, i love Tom Brady and i think hes the best. but people here want to build a team around Tom Brady likes hes 2007 Tom Brady and it isn't going to work.

 

[Sivy]

i don't think it's going to make much of a difference. once you lose a super bowl, for whatever reason it takes teams a while to get back. after 07', it took the pats 4 years to get back. when was the last time a team went back to the super bowl after losing it? buffalo bills - 4 times.

i honestly think this was the last shot that the pats had of getting a 4th super bowl. by the time this team figures it out, Brady will be close to 40 and BB is going to retire. Super bowl defeats are crushing. It's not a matter of simply signing a few guys and fix some problem areas. Injuries are going to happen. players are going to leave via free agency. the mental pscyhe of this team is low right now and i can't see them getting their swagger back any time soon.

I think it had a little something to do with Brady breaking his Knee the year after. They had a cake schedule, and the same team form 07.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

Two words - - NO CHANCE

Pats don't play like that. BB mentality is better to add 3-4 guys @ 3-4Mill than 1 for 16mill....Carter and Anderson prime examples.

He was in love with Adalius, so he went and got him. It just depends on how BB sees things. Does BB think Mario Williams is one of the pieces? It's hard to say when there are so many pieces missing (the secondary).

 

[tatepatsfan]

I wonder what the Ravens will tender Webb at. I knew what the rules for tendering RFAs were under the old cap, but not sure what (if any) changes there were. No way we give up a first for him, but he was only a 3rd rounder. If they go anything less than a first, I'd say we have to make a move for him.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I think it had a little something to do with Brady breaking his Knee the year after. They had a cake schedule, and the same team form 07.

this is exactly what i'm talking about. weird stuff like this happens. even though the roster may be the same, injuries do occur and stuff like this for whatever reason always haunts the super bowl loser. look at pittsburgh from last year - still the same roster, but freak injuries to roethlisberger and other players really killed them.