Coming to peace with Eli.

[hellolin]

Aside from the elite debate, I do 100% agrees that he DOES has tons of mental toughness than his brother ever had in big games.

 

[Zoie]

Aside from the elite debate, I do 100% agrees that he DOES has tons of mental toughness than his brother ever had in big games.

I'll concede on that. He does.

 

[PatriotSeven]

I think the point that you keep missing though Zoei is that you keep grouping Eli as part of the "Mannings". He's his own man and frankly Eli, didn't seem like he belongs there either his entire career. Like he was an outcast of some sort.

Everyone assumed he got a lot of credit because of his name. The man proved it this time. And I honestly think only wins in this manner, over somebody like us with a QB like Brady under center, would have given this boy any kind of respect.

I would have hated for any other quarterback to get this kind of credit on behalf of winning a SB "against Brady", because of how ******ed that argument is, but I'm ok with this now, because it's Eli. No other QB needed something like this more to set himself apart from the perception that was forced down on him by everyone in the NFL. Including us probably.

 

[Zoie]

I think the point that you keep missing though Zoei is that you keep grouping Eli as part of the "Mannings". He's his own man and frankly Eli, didn't seem like he belongs there either his entire career. Like he was an outcast of some sort.

Everyone assumed he got a lot of credit because of his name. The man proved it this time. And I honestly think only wins in this manner, over somebody like us with a QB like Brady under center, would have given this boy any kind of respect.

I would have hated for any other quarterback to get this kind of credit on behalf of winning a SB "against Brady", because of how ******ed that argument is, but I'm ok with this now, because it's Eli. No other QB needed something like this more to set himself apart from the perception that was forced down on him by everyone in the NFL. Including us probably.

I didn't group him with the Mannings. I was merely agreeing with a poster on a matter unrelated to Eli as a quarterback.

I already said why I don't consider him an "elite" quarterback, and what I view you need to have to be an "elite" quarterback. Look at my previous posts to get my point.

The Giants could have been 8-8 or 7-9 heading into the playoffs, and I still wouldn't consider him an "elite" quarterback.

Joe Montana
John Elway
Dan Marino
Brett Favre pre-retirement fiasco
Steve Young
Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Dree Brees

Just to name a few, and Eli deserves to be in that group? It's a matter of opinion.

 

[bigblue420]

It's Zoie...

I love how you attempted to negate my reasoning for why I don't consider him an "elite" quarterback when that is what is usually the standard for judging quarterbacks.

Anyone with at least 2 rings is an "elite" quarterback. I don't think so. I follow the motto- "Defense wins championships. Offense wins games."

9-7 doesn't do it for me. That's one game above .500. If Eli is "elite", then 9-7 illustrates what exactly?

That's all I'm going to say on the matter. I don't consider Eli an "elite" quarterback. Nothing will change my mind. He is someone rides the coattails of his defense, and plays decent enough not to blow it. However, that does not make one "elite".

9-7 record, you know why?

@PHI
vs. PHI
@NE
@SF
@NO
vs. GB
@DAL
@NYJ
DAL

Actually the 2nd toughest schedule in the entire league this season

Not all of us get to play Buffalo twice, Dolphins twice, Colts with Curtis Painter and KC Chiefs with Tyler Palko

Which is why you didn't even beat a single team with a record above .500 until the AFC Championship game.

Again, ignorance is bliss.

 

[Zoie]

9-7 record, you know why?

@PHI
vs. PHI
@NE
@SF
@NO
vs. GB
@DAL
@NYJ
DAL

Actually the 2nd toughest schedule in the entire league this season

Not all of us get to play Buffalo twice, Dolphins twice, Colts with Curtis Painter and KC Chiefs with Tyler Palko

Which is why you didn't even beat a single team with a record above .500 until the AFC Championship game.

Again, ignorance is bliss.

Excuses are tools of the incompetent used to build monuments to nothing. For those who specialize in them shall never be good at anything else.

It shouldn't matter who you face. Elite quarterbacks should be able to defeat good teams in the regular season and playoffs. That is how they're judged.

I'll give you GB, NO, SF and NE as probable losses. However,

-Philadelphia was always garbage. I never bought into their hype, and Nnamdi and the rest never hit or covered anyone this season so those games should have been won.

-Same with Dallas and inconsistent Romo.

-Jets were another inconsistent team.

Eli puts together some 12-4 season records or better or even 11-5, then I'll call him elite. Your division is not that tough that you couldn't have done better than 9-7 this year.

 

[PatriotSeven]

I didn't group him with the Mannings. I was merely agreeing with a poster on a matter unrelated to Eli as a quarterback.

I already said why I don't consider him an "elite" quarterback, and what I view you need to have to be an "elite" quarterback. Look at my previous posts to get my point.

The Giants could have been 8-8 or 7-9 heading into the playoffs, and I still wouldn't consider him an "elite" quarterback.

Joe Montana
John Elway
Dan Marino
Brett Favre pre-retirement fiasco
Steve Young
Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Dree Brees

Just to name a few, and Eli deserves to be in that group? It's a matter of opinion.

Who said Eli deserves to be in that group? Those are hall of famers. All I said is Eli deserves to be called elite now and deserves the respect he never got. However, he'll probably be in there if he wins one more.

 

[ghostPatsfan]

9-7 record, you know why?

@PHI
vs. PHI
@NE
@SF
@NO
vs. GB
@DAL
@NYJ
DAL

Actually the 2nd toughest schedule in the entire league this season

Man, it's beautiful, isn't it? My favorite Pats squad is the '03 squad, for that reason. They beat the most 10 win teams, including the co-league MVPs on their way to that second Super Bowl, in league history. It was undeniable. We took on all comers, and we whupped 'em. I know that's a great feeling as a fan, so I know you're feeling good about that team, and how they won.

Not really apropos of anything, I guess. I just saw your post and that feeling, how I feel about that '03 team, washed over me. Enjoy it.

For what it's worth, I don't care whether or not Eli is "elite" or some other such bull**** metric. He's good enough to be the leader and QB for multiple Super Bowl winning squads. That's all he needs to be.

 

[Zoie]

Who said Eli deserves to be in that group? Those are hall of famers. All I said is Eli deserves to be called elite now and deserves the respect he never got. However, he'll probably be in there if he wins one more.

Those are the people considered "elite" quarterbacks.

I'm also curious as to why you wrote this thread on a Patriots board after a Super Bowl loss to this quarterback? Why not take it the Giants message board?

I mean this thread is about

-Praising Eli.
-The loss isn't so bad because it's Eli
-Eli has now proven himself to be "elite"

 

[ghostPatsfan]

Zoie, I think the thread is less about that maybe, than trying to give Eli a bit of what the OP thinks is his due.

Nothing wrong with being gracious in defeat.

 

[PatriotSeven]

Those are the people considered "elite" quarterbacks.

I'm also curious as to why you wrote this thread on a Patriots board after a Super Bowl loss to this quarterback? Why not take it the Giants message board?

I mean this thread is about

-Praising Eli.
-The loss isn't so bad because it's Eli
-Eli has now proven himself to be "elite"

Well you have different definitions compared to what everyone else refers to as Elite. Hall of famers are the elites of elites to everyone else. And you didn't understand anything that I wrote if you think my OP was simply about praising Eli.

 

[Zoie]

Zoie, I think the thread is less about that maybe, than trying to give Eli a bit of what the OP thinks is his due.

Nothing wrong with being gracious in defeat.

I guess so. Sorry OP. I don't mean to be rude. It was a nice original post, but I would be more receptive to this if the Giants hadn't been so nasty this past week along with the media plus the Steelers players mocking this loss on twitter in addition to the usual haters coming to gloat and sneer.

I would be more gracious if say uh Tom was 4-1 in the Super Bowl with this being his first loss, but 3-2 brings out the media wolves and haters.

Eli won 2 Super Bowls at the expense of the Patriots. If he had won against other teams, then I would be more gracious.

 

[PatriotSeven]

I guess so. Sorry OP. I don't mean to be rude. It was a nice original post, but I would be more receptive to this if the Giants hadn't been so nasty this past week along with the media plus the Steelers players mocking this loss on twitter in addition to the usual haters coming to gloat and sneer.

I would be more gracious if say uh Tom was 4-1 in the Super Bowl with this being his first loss, but 3-2 brings out the media wolves and haters.

Eli won 2 Super Bowls at the expense of the Patriots. If he had won against other teams, then I would be more gracious.

I think this just goes to show you, we need to start having a bit of fun too. And so do our players. Nobody remembers what is said years down the road because it's all in good fun and sport.

And it's time for Brady and the Patriots to stop walking on eggshells in front of the NFL or the media and claim their right to have fun, enjoy their wins, their accomplishments, do their share of trash talking without it having to mean anything more than just that. It clearly helps your confidence and gives your team a little bit of an edge and flavor. And it makes fans happy.

I think after 11 years they have earned their right to talk and do a little salsa of their own. And win or lose, who cares if it comes back and bites you in the ass? It's a lot worse to not even enjoy it and lose anyway.

Having said that, speaking of loudmouths, what happened to the Nascar package? Tom, the O line and this offense slashed some tires out there. Loved the "injury fakes" though fellas. Good stuff. Oscar winning effort. But our D line played better anyway

 

[Zoie]

I think this just goes to show you, we need to start having a bit of fun too. And so do our players. Nobody remembers what is said years down the road because it's all in good fun and sport.

And it's time for Brady and the Patriots to stop walking on eggshells in front of the NFL or the media and claim their right to have fun, enjoy their wins, their accomplishments, do their share of trash talking without it having to mean anything more than just that. It clearly helps your confidence and gives your team a little bit of an edge and flavor. And it makes fans happy.

I think after 11 years they have earned their right to talk and do a little salsa of their own. And win or lose, who cares if it comes back and bites you in the ass? It's a lot worse to not even enjoy it and lose anyway.

Having said that, speaking of loudmouths, what happened to the Nascar package? Tom, the O line and this offense slashed some tires out there. Loved the "injury fakes" though fellas. Good stuff. Oscar winning effort. But our D line played better anyway

I'm all for anything that wins the Patriots another Super Bowl. Personality changes, therapy, etc.

I really wanted a victory for Myra, and Tom's coach Tom Martinez...

If Tom needs to turn into a Kobe Bryant-like narcissistic egoist to get past these Super Bowl losses and be a 4 or 5-Time Super Bowl winning QB, then so be it...

What's was originally frustrating is the Giants talked the talk, then walked the walk. They were team with brashness and confidence that wasn't illustrative of their season record. Now I see that it's the law of attraction at play.

You have to own your dreams and goals in life.

Just happy to be here in the Super Bowl, and hoping to have a celebration parade isn't enough.

 

[PatriotSeven]

I'm all for anything that wins the Patriots another Super Bowl. Personality changes, therapy, etc.

I really wanted a victory for Myra, and Tom's coach Tom Martinez...

If Tom needs to turn into a Kobe Bryant-like narcissistic egoist to get past these Super Bowl losses and be a 4 or 5-Time Super Bowl winning QB, then so be it...

What's was originally frustrating is the Giants talked the talk, then walked the walk. They were team with brashness and confidence that wasn't illustrative of their season record. Now I see that it's the law of attraction at play.

You have to own your dreams and goals in life.

Just happy to be here in the Super Bowl, and hoping to have a celebration parade isn't enough.

I just want to see them have fun at this point. I don't care about the next Super Bowl win. This was honestly the least enjoyable run out of all of them, for both these players, and us the fans. If it wasn't for Gronk we might as well have worn storm trooper outfits out there.

So much tension. Maybe they just need to stop trying to be so perfect. Sometimes it works against you. They're not perfect. Nobody is. Time to let it go Bill and have have some fun.

Doing that, might have a better chance of winning us another Super Bowl. I just wanna see Brady smile. Laugh. Like Gronk! These guys are facing far too much pressure.

 

[SVN]

A guy named John Elway did this.

Yeah, Well I personally don't like him either. Nothing about his or Eli's abilities but just behavior.Just my opinion.

 

[SVN]

Big Ben has two rings, is he a first ballot HOFer?

Do you remember before the colts/saints SB everyone was ready to coronate manning as the best ever if he won ? yet brady loses 2 in 5 appearances and people start doubting his abilities and creds. This is what gets me more than anything else.

 

[Zoie]

Do you remember before the colts/saints SB everyone was ready to coronate manning as the best ever if he won ? yet brady loses 2 in 5 appearances and people start doubting his abilities and creds. This is what gets me more than anything else.

I remember that and thought what about Joe Montana and Tom Brady?

The media proclaimed that Peyton was going to going to be the greatest of all time when he dismantled the Saints. They essentially trashed Joe Montana, Tom Brady, and the Saints. I remember how media made it seem like the Saints shouldn't even bother to show up.

Then he threw a pick 6 when it mattered the most, and his playoff record became 9-9.

I couldn't figure how anyone with less rings than Joe Montana and that playoff record would be considered the greatest of all time. Even if he wins he's barely above .500, and he still has less rings than Joe and Tom.

It boggled my mind.

However, the media hype got to Peyton. After the game Deion Sander and Michael Irvin trashed Peyton. Deion said he chocked, then they played a clip of Peyton arriving to the game looking stern and pressured. Deion and Michael basically said that clip of Peyton arriving looking that way they knew for sure that the Saints were winning.

 

[PatriotSeven]

Do you remember before the colts/saints SB everyone was ready to coronate manning as the best ever if he won ? yet brady loses 2 in 5 appearances and people start doubting his abilities and creds. This is what gets me more than anything else.

Yes I do and it is annoying. Bill and Tom never talk back and never defend themselves mainly because they know when it's all said and done, they will still be judged on their accomplishments and believe to be judged fairly. They never point this out. They let them do as they please. It is one of the truest of teams in the NFL, so when your team gets a knock, so does its leaders.

It is what it is. But I really wanna see some freaking trash talking next year. Because as it turns out, image and entertainment is a part of that. And we have not defended the first enough lately, and aside from Gronk, haven't really given the nation a whole lot of the second.

In history though, Tom matches Manning and are neck in neck in their regular season accomplishments and surpasses him in playoffs and Championships. Same for Eli even though he did get beat by him. Tom and the Mannings are forever binded.

It's actually nice if Eli does end up among the greats because it will go down as one of the most heated and competitive quarterback eras in history. And Tom, is still poised to be the leader of his generation. It still takes two Mannings to almost equal a Brady. That's all this Super Bowl proved. They caught up to Tom, kind of. At this point it's evident they're both doing their best so as not to share a HOF ticket as brothers, and it's mighty close right now

But maybe we need to stop worrying about HOF or the greatest of all time when there's till life left in our dog and we're acting like our job is done. We'll see where the cards will fall. Right now we're all acting like a bunch of spoiled brats complaining about whether our guy really is the greatest of the greatest. Come on.

Just remember this. The feeling we have in losing to Eli and the Giants and that organization like this, is the exact same feeling 30 other NFL teams feel when they face the Patriots. We're being terrorized by one team, and Denver who recently got taken over by Tebow, but we have done this to everybody else in the league.

So lets act like we can take our losses like Champs.

 

[alvinnf]

Eli Manning is a very good QB. A true winner and gamer. Most important for me is that the Giants maximize his skill set within their system. Could Eli go empty and chuck it around the lot, hell yes. What the Giants organization understands is that he is even more effective through play action and backed by a tough running game. The NE organization could learn a lesson from the Giants.