(Fore)Telling Statistic

[patfanken]

Thanks Jay for providing some "meat" to discuss and pass the time. I think the "experts are really missing some of the match ups that make the so call advantage the Giant DL has over our OL smaller than its perceived, And they are ignoring or forgetting to look at what seems to be a growing advantage of our DL over their OL.

Here are a few points to back that up

1. The Pats have played 8 games this season against the top 10 pass rushing teams and have allowed just 13 sacks.

2. They seem to have ignored that against the the 16th ranked pass defense in the league (SF) the Giants gave up 7 sacks and 20 QB hits, while the greatest Manning of all time managed to amass a completion rate of 54% and an underwhelming 5.4 yards per attempt.

3. They seem to have forgotten or ignored that during the playoffs the Pats DL has more sacks per game than the Giants. WHY isn't anyone questioning how the Giants OL who essentially FAILED in the NFCCG, will match up with a Pats DL that is rushing the passer as well as any team in the playoffs

4.I think we are WAY ahead in the interior OL. Waters has been EMMENCE. Connolly is much better suited to set the middle than the smaller Koppen.

5. The real questions come on how well the two tackles will fair, Light and Solder. Here are some thoughts to consider.
a. For some reason, Light is playing his best football. He has gone against some of the best rushers in the league and has bested them all. Just look at the Suggs match up. The best defensive player in the league was stoned by Light to the point they moved him over to Solders side. So I'm fine with the Matt Light of 2011, he's playing at a much higher level than the Matt Light of 2010, 2009, 2008, 2007. At least from my eyeball test, this is his best year ever.
b. The Giants beat Kacsur and Volmer a couple of time to the outside. I have yet to see someone beat Solder on an outside speed rush. His feet are that quick and his arms are so long. Where he HAS been beaten is on inside moves. Plus he's the most likely of all the guys on the OL to make a mistake vs a Giants blitz or stunt,

5, Everyone is suddenly touting the Giants run game, like they've been killing people all season, ignoring the fact they were the worst rushing team in the league during the regular season. But its interesting to note that the Pats are rushing the ball slightly better than the Giants this post season completely, and this is completely ignored by the so called experts.

Summary - At some point the focus is coming to be put on the match ups between the OL/DL of both teams. At some point people are going to look at the facts of the current OL and also start to recognize how well the Pats DL has elevated THEIR game.

One Troubling Thought: This game is being played on turf and in a neutral sight. That combination will favor Giants DL who rely on quickness and acceleration, both things that are enhance by artificial turf.

 

[jmt57]

The 1st problem is you left off Ben Watson and his nearly 400 receiving yards and 6 TD's. The second would be Kyle Brady's 2 TD's.

I like the variety of the 1st choice but it's hard to argue less production. The '07 team simply out produced this team when it comes to the totality of receiving numbers.

Edit - If u add ocho he and kyle brady cancel each other out but the 07 team still has the edge in scoring the football.

I did not include Watson or Kyle Brady because I focused on the four primary targets.

Eleven players on the field minus five offensive linemen, the quarterback and a running back leaves four potential receivers - whether they be tight ends or wide receivers. That's why I limited the comparison to the four top producing players. Beyond that doesn't matter a whole lot unless there is an injury.

 

[ALP]

to the OP, ill take the center situation this year over 07

also, receiver options are better this year than 07....

this is because the two groups are quite comparable, but the diversity provided by a TE option over a WR option will allow you to give the edge to a TE with the same production as a WR

btw, welker NOW is much better than welker ANY OTHER TIME

 

[West Philly Patriot]

I did not include Watson or Kyle Brady because I focused on the four primary targets.

Eleven players on the field minus five offensive linemen, the quarterback and a running back leaves four potential receivers - whether they be tight ends or wide receivers. That's why I limited the comparison to the four top producing players. Beyond that doesn't matter a whole lot unless there is an injury.

O ok. I thought you were listing all Wide receivers and TE's overall.

 

[ausbacker]

Thanks Jay for providing some "meat" to discuss and pass the time. I think the "experts are really missing some of the match ups that make the so call advantage the Giant DL has over our OL smaller than its perceived, And they are ignoring or forgetting to look at what seems to be a growing advantage of our DL over their OL.

Here are a few points to back that up

1. The Pats have played 8 games this season against the top 10 pass rushing teams and have allowed just 13 sacks.

2. They seem to have ignored that against the the 16th ranked pass defense in the league (SF) the Giants gave up 7 sacks and 20 QB hits, while the greatest Manning of all time managed to amass a completion rate of 54% and an underwhelming 5.4 yards per attempt.

3. They seem to have forgotten or ignored that during the playoffs the Pats DL has more sacks per game than the Giants. WHY isn't anyone questioning how the Giants OL who essentially FAILED in the NFCCG, will match up with a Pats DL that is rushing the passer as well as any team in the playoffs

4.I think we are WAY ahead in the interior OL. Waters has been EMMENCE. Connolly is much better suited to set the middle than the smaller Koppen.

5. The real questions come on how well the two tackles will fair, Light and Solder. Here are some thoughts to consider.
a. For some reason, Light is playing his best football. He has gone against some of the best rushers in the league and has bested them all. Just look at the Suggs match up. The best defensive player in the league was stoned by Light to the point they moved him over to Solders side. So I'm fine with the Matt Light of 2011, he's playing at a much higher level than the Matt Light of 2010, 2009, 2008, 2007. At least from my eyeball test, this is his best year ever.
b. The Giants beat Kacsur and Volmer a couple of time to the outside. I have yet to see someone beat Solder on an outside speed rush. His feet are that quick and his arms are so long. Where he HAS been beaten is on inside moves. Plus he's the most likely of all the guys on the OL to make a mistake vs a Giants blitz or stunt,

5, Everyone is suddenly touting the Giants run game, like they've been killing people all season, ignoring the fact they were the worst rushing team in the league during the regular season. But its interesting to note that the Pats are rushing the ball slightly better than the Giants this post season completely, and this is completely ignored by the so called experts.

Summary - At some point the focus is coming to be put on the match ups between the OL/DL of both teams. At some point people are going to look at the facts of the current OL and also start to recognize how well the Pats DL has elevated THEIR game.

One Troubling Thought: This game is being played on turf and in a neutral sight. That combination will favor Giants DL who rely on quickness and acceleration, both things that are enhance by artificial turf.

On NFL Network, more specifically NFL All Access I watched Willie McGinest, Solomon Wilcotts and Brian Billick give the Giants the edge in the following categories;

Defense - Giants
Offense - Giants
Coaching - Giants

I'm a bright pink colored fairy wearing a tiara if the Giants have the edge on offense and coaching. Hell, even the defense is questionable given the performances of both in the playoffs.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

On NFL Network, more specifically NFL All Access I watched Willie McGinest, Solomon Wilcotts and Brian Billick give the Giants the edge in the following categories;

Defense - Giants
Offense - Giants
Coaching - Giants

I'm a bright pink colored fairy wearing a tiara if the Giants have the edge on offense and coaching. Hell, even the defense is questionable given the performances of both in the playoffs.

I have a ton of respect for Tom Coughlin and I think he and BB are on the short list for Best coaches in the league but..................

 

[ausbacker]

I have a ton of respect for Tom Coughlin and I think he and BB are on the short list for Best coaches in the league but..................

Believe me, my computer didn't enjoy the cup of tea it received.

 

[byfuglien]

Apparently it is or at least was a secret over on ESPN courtesy of KC Joiner...



Considering the last time out that guy was named kaczur I'm not.

And if I recall the game some of you can't name and still haven't rewatched, the Giants had a lot more depth in the front 4 and were rotating well until we went to hurry up and gassed (not to mention rattled into a 12 men on the punt team penalty) them for the go ahead score. Young Tuck was one of those rotational players that night. Now he's a veteran starter. They got some talent, just not sure they got the depth as witnessed in their early and mid season performances when they were dealing with injuries. We have a lot more depth as well as bulk and size and athletitism on our OL these days that we had then, too. Once Neal went out we were generally screwed, and that game was no exception other than Mankins was simultaneously having the roughest outing of his career and bull rushers were always Koppen's achilles heel. Then of course there are the weapons, of which we have more that are also more versatile.

They survived the Chase Blackburn 12 men penalty. That drive went to 4th and 13 or whatever it was, and they stopped us.

The go ahead TD was on a 'clean' drive.

 

[byfuglien]

On NFL Network, more specifically NFL All Access I watched Willie McGinest, Solomon Wilcotts and Brian Billick give the Giants the edge in the following categories;

Defense - Giants
Offense - Giants
Coaching - Giants

I'm a bright pink colored fairy wearing a tiara if the Giants have the edge on offense and coaching. Hell, even the defense is questionable given the performances of both in the playoffs.

Wow, seriously? Even coaching? I'm shocked Willie would say that.

 

[RayClay]

And if I recall the game some of you can't name and still haven't rewatched, the Giants had a lot more depth in the front 4 and were rotating well until we went to hurry up and gassed (not to mention rattled into a 12 men on the punt team penalty) them for the go ahead score. Young Tuck was one of those rotational players that night. Now he's a veteran starter. They got some talent, just not sure they got the depth as witnessed in their early and mid season performances when they were dealing with injuries.

Great observation. I remember seeing their linemen cramping up on the sidelines from rushing every play.

 

[RayClay]

OL Now vs then

LT - (age)
RG 0 (could be + given career bad game)
OC -
RG ++ (Neal OUT most of game)
RT ++

Skill Players
QB 0
RB ++
Slot 0
WR --
TE ++

I don't know if it's freedom from injuries, but Light seems to be playing better this year than ever, not that i isolate on the line.

And yes, we need to run the ball and make them defend it.

 

[ausbacker]

Wow, seriously? Even coaching? I'm shocked Willie would say that.

Willie passed comment on the defensive aspect of the game. You can make a case for the Giants on defense, but you cannot make a case for the Giants on offense and coaching as per Wilcotts and Billick unsuccessfully attempted.

 

[reflexblue]

The average weight of the starting front four of the giants D-line is 276 lbs, run at them, pound them, wear them out. Use draws and screens to tire them out. Maybe this is to obvious.

 

[goheels22002]

I would take the 2007 WRs over this yeasr, but I would take the OL from this year over 2011.

No way. When Deion Branch, a Super Bowl MVP, is your 4th choice, you have a very good receiving corps. Branch is at home in this environment, won't make mistakes and will run clean routes when Brady needs him to do so. The chemistry between Brady and Branch is superb.

The tight end position isn't even worth discussing: Kyle Brady and Watson vs Gronk/Hernandez is a huge upgrade and much tougher for the 2012 Giants.

Moss v Welker as the #1 target is worthy of a discussion but why worry? Welker will get his catches and torment the linebackers with his underneath routs in their zones. If the Giants are in man-to-man, Brady will find the mismatch and/or the RB out of the backfield (all good receivers for the Pats). In the zone, he picks them apart if the line holds.

This game is won or lost in the trenches, and I like this revamped and deeper offensive line to stop the Giants.

 

[Off The Grid]

I would take the OL from this year over 2011.

Really? I would've said they're about even.

 

[PatsFan37]

The biggest concern is not the line vs line, it is how the Patriots will play the slot corner. More on that later, though.

I'm looking forward to this.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

The average weight of the starting front four of the giants D-line is 276 lbs, run at them, pound them, wear them out. Use draws and screens to tire them out. Maybe this is to obvious.

They are too quick and good at shedding for that to work unless the plays are quick hitters and one cut and go runs, IE: What Washington did to them earlier this year.

But with all their LBers healthy again, even those plays might not work now.

 

[fair catch fryar]

I would take the 2007 WRs over this yeasr, but I would take the OL from this year over 2011.

No way. Randy Moss and his 23 Td's are the sexy pick, but as constituted our TE's are a much tougher matchup than Moss was. Combined with Welker and a much better running game this O is much better suited to the Giants front 7.

 

[reflexblue]

They are too quick and good at shedding for that to work unless the plays are quick hitters and one cut and go runs, IE: What Washington did to them earlier this year.

But with all their LBers healthy again, even those plays might not work now.

Back in Nov. the pats averaged close to 4.5 yards a carry, so it can be done. If so, sticking to the running game is a must. I don't remember if that was one of those games that in the second half the running game was abandoned or not.

 

[patsinthesnow]

The difference from Brady getting killed and not could be as simple as having BJGE instead of Lomo. 2nd and 5 is better than 2nd and 11.