(Fore)Telling Statistic

[jays52]

It's no secret that the most impactful FA acquisition since Randy Moss has been playing lights out. According to Pro Football Focus, Brian waters has allowed a whopping total of 12 pressures in the entire season. Further, he did not allow a single pressure in seven of 18 total games he has played this season. With the majority of Superbowl hype coming down to the Patriots O Line vs the Giants D Line this is a major...well, story line.

There is a lot of concern regarding this matchup, and somewhat rightfully so, but the Giants defense doesn't scare me. I think part of this concern is from the game that shall not be named, but in this game the Patriots are playing with the best offensive line they have ever assembled. Pass rush gets a lot of hype, as do pressure defenses. Make no mistake, pressure defenses are highly effective against passing offenses but they have one fatal flaw. If you get them blocked, you will eat them alive. The Giants are a little unique in that they get there with less players and place more defenders in coverage, but they don't have the personnel in back of the D-Line that other great defenses have. Be it the 46, The Rex Ryan 34, or The **** LeBeau zone blitz, all pressure defenses are easily carved if you can block them. When your biggest concern is maybe getting Logan Mankins a little help you are in a very nice place. In 2007, the Giants D matched up against the Patriots O better than any. In 2011, the Patriots O matches up against the Giants D better than any.

The biggest concern is not the line vs line, it is how the Patriots will play the slot corner. More on that later, though.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

According to Pro Football Focus

 

[cavtroop]

.... When your biggest concern is maybe getting Logan Mankins a little help ...

Im more worried about our RT situation than I am Mankins.

 

[makoute]

It's no secret that the most impactful FA acquisition since Randy Moss has been playing lights out. According to Pro Football Focus, Brian waters has allowed a whopping total of 12 pressures in the entire season. Further, he did not allow a single pressure in seven of 18 total games he has played this season. With the majority of Superbowl hype coming down to the Patriots O Line vs the Giants D Line this is a major...well, story line.

There is a lot of concern regarding this matchup, and somewhat rightfully so, but the Giants defense doesn't scare me. I think part of this concern is from the game that shall not be named, but in this game the Patriots are playing with the best offensive line they have ever assembled. Pass rush gets a lot of hype, as do pressure defenses. Make no mistake, pressure defenses are highly effective against passing offenses but they have one fatal flaw. If you get them blocked, you will eat them alive. The Giants are a little unique in that they get there with less players and place more defenders in coverage, but they don't have the personnel in back of the D-Line that other great defenses have. Be it the 46, The Rex Ryan 34, or The **** LeBeau zone blitz, all pressure defenses are easily carved if you can block them. When your biggest concern is maybe getting Logan Mankins a little help you are in a very nice place. In 2007, the Giants D matched up against the Patriots O better than any. In 2011, the Patriots O matches up against the Giants D better than any.

The biggest concern is not the line vs line, it is how the Patriots will play the slot corner. More on that later, though.

That was the case in the game that shall not be named. The problem was actually blocking them. They actually might have been worse at the back of their defense in that game.

 

[Gronkandez]

Someone is going to comment that Randy Moss wasn't a FA, and that he was acquired in a trade....

Now that we have that out of the way, those are nice stats regarding B. Waters (despite the credibility of the source.) I'm hoping Solder cleans up his mistakes from last week.

After watching the Ravens tape I feel confident about the Pats rush which will help the seconday, however the pass defense is still my biggest concern.

 

[Patspsycho]

Looking forward to the "more on that later" part.

 

[Fixit]

To be fair, their stats seem to be fine. It's their analysis of said stats that sucks hardcore.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Apparently it is or at least was a secret over on ESPN courtesy of KC Joiner...

Im more worried about our RT situation than I am Mankins.

Considering the last time out that guy was named kaczur I'm not.

And if I recall the game some of you can't name and still haven't rewatched, the Giants had a lot more depth in the front 4 and were rotating well until we went to hurry up and gassed (not to mention rattled into a 12 men on the punt team penalty) them for the go ahead score. Young Tuck was one of those rotational players that night. Now he's a veteran starter. They got some talent, just not sure they got the depth as witnessed in their early and mid season performances when they were dealing with injuries. We have a lot more depth as well as bulk and size and athletitism on our OL these days that we had then, too. Once Neal went out we were generally screwed, and that game was no exception other than Mankins was simultaneously having the roughest outing of his career and bull rushers were always Koppen's achilles heel. Then of course there are the weapons, of which we have more that are also more versatile.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

OL Now vs then

LT - (age)
RG 0 (could be + given career bad game)
OC -
RG ++ (Neal OUT most of game)
RT ++

Skill Players
QB 0
RB ++
Slot 0
WR --
TE ++

 

[cavtroop]

Apparently it is or at least was a secret over on ESPN courtesy of KC Joiner...



Considering the last time out that guy was named kaczur I'm not.

And if I recall the game some of you can't name and still haven't rewatched, the Giants had a lot more depth in the front 4 and were rotating well until we went to hurry up and gassed (not to mention rattled into a 12 men on the punt team penalty) them for the go ahead score. Young Tuck was one of those rotational players that night. Now he's a veteran starter. They got some talent, just not sure they got the depth as witnessed in their early and mid season performances when they were dealing with injuries. We have a lot more depth as well as bulk and size and athletitism on our OL these days that we had then, too. Once Neal went out we were generally screwed, and that game was no exception other than Mankins was simultaneously having the roughest outing of his career and bull rushers were always Koppen's achilles heel. Then of course there are the weapons, of which we have more that are also more versatile.

Im only concerned in that Vollmer, even if healthy, hasn't played in weeks, and Solder let up some inside pressure last game. Not a ton - there is no question our OL is in much better shape this time around.

 

[Fixit]

Im only concerned in that Vollmer, even if healthy, hasn't played in weeks, and Solder let up some inside pressure last game. Not a ton - there is no question our OL is in much better shape this time around.

From what I've seen of Solder all season, he tends to get beat on a move he hasn't seen before but quickly adapts.

 

[jmt57]

It's no secret that the most impactful FA acquisition since Randy Moss has been playing lights out. According to Pro Football Focus, Brian waters has allowed a whopping total of 12 pressures in the entire season. Further, he did not allow a single pressure in seven of 18 total games he has played this season. With the majority of Superbowl hype coming down to the Patriots O Line vs the Giants D Line this is a major...well, story line.

There is a lot of concern regarding this matchup, and somewhat rightfully so, but the Giants defense doesn't scare me. I think part of this concern is from the game that shall not be named, but in this game the Patriots are playing with the best offensive line they have ever assembled. Pass rush gets a lot of hype, as do pressure defenses. Make no mistake, pressure defenses are highly effective against passing offenses but they have one fatal flaw. If you get them blocked, you will eat them alive. The Giants are a little unique in that they get there with less players and place more defenders in coverage, but they don't have the personnel in back of the D-Line that other great defenses have. Be it the 46, The Rex Ryan 34, or The **** LeBeau zone blitz, all pressure defenses are easily carved if you can block them. When your biggest concern is maybe getting Logan Mankins a little help you are in a very nice place. In 2007, the Giants D matched up against the Patriots O better than any. In 2011, the Patriots O matches up against the Giants D better than any.

The biggest concern is not the line vs line, it is how the Patriots will play the slot corner. More on that later, though.

Yeah, one of the biggest talking points has been either implicitly or explicitly that the Giants defensive line will dominate the Patriots offensive line just like they did in 2007, as if nothing whatsoever has changed in four years. But consider some of the obvious changes that most of the media and fans seem oblivious to:

RG: Brian Waters > Russ Hochstein
RT: Either Vollmer or Solder > Nick Kaczur
TE: Gronkowski, Hernandez and Solder > a 36-year old Kyle Brady and Ben Watson

The targets for Brady to throw the ball to are probably better overall and more able to get open, even without Randy Moss; consider the top four WR/TE targets:
2007: Welker, Moss, Gaffney, Watson
2011: Welker, Gronkowski, Hernandez, Branch


I am sure there will be some plays where the Giants win the individual battles and will be able to apply pressure to Brady. I disagree however with those that are proclaiming that the Giants are going to be able to win those battles on virtually every down, and be able to apply pressure on every passing play. I don't follow the logic of those that reach that conclusion.

 

[signbabybrady]

OL Now vs then

LT - (age)
KG 0 (could be + given career bad game)
OC -
RG ++ (Neal OUT most of game)
RT ++

Skill Players
QB 0
RB ++
Slot 0
WR --
TE ++

Kevin Garnnett?

Also to the OPs point are passing attack in 07 was very much downfield which plays into a good pass rush this year we get the ball out much quicker than the back then.

 

[BradyFTW!]

OL Now vs then

LT - (age)
RG 0 (could be + given career bad game)
OC -
RG ++ (Neal OUT most of game)
RT ++

Skill Players
QB 0
RB ++
Slot 0
WR --
TE ++

FWIW, I actually think that C is a + relative to 2007. I'm no expert on the matter, though.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

OL Now vs then

LT - (age)
KG 0 (could be + given career bad game)
OC -
RG ++ (Neal OUT most of game)
RT ++

Skill Players
QB 0
RB ++
Slot 0
WR --
TE ++

I don't think many of us want to see Kevin Garnett opening running lanes for Law Firm. :singing:

 

[PatsGirl2011]

I would take the 2007 WRs over this yeasr, but I would take the OL from this year over 2011.

 

[jmt57]

I would take the 2007 WRs over this yeasr, but I would take the OL from this year over 2011.

Perhaps, but to make it a fair comparison let's compare all the pass receivers from each squad rather than strictly focusing on only the WR position.

One team had the following:
a) 122 receptions, 1569 yards, 9 TD
b) 90 receptions, 1327 yards, 17 TD
c) 79 receptions, 910 yards, 7 TD
d) 51 receptions, 702 yards, 5 TD

The other team had this:
a) 112 receptions, 1175 yards, 8 TD
b) 98 receptions, 1493 yards, 23 TD
c) 46 receptions, 697 yards, 3 TD
d) 36 receptions, 449 yards, 5 TD




Personally I'm more inclined to take the first choice, which happens to be the 2011 Patriots wide receivers and tight ends, rather then the second unit, which is the 2007 group.

As for the OL I agree; as mentioned earlier there is no comparison. Waters over Hochstein and either Vollmer or Solder over Kaczur.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

I don't know how anyone can even compare the WR corps, in the words of Lebron James "that's like comparing Jay-z to Soulja boy" so let's just look at the overall weapons this year vs. '07.

Randy Moss and Gronk cancel each other out. Both had record breaking seasons and were virtually uncoverable for the better parts of the season.

Welker pre knee injury> Current Welker.
Gaffney > every remaining WR on roster
Hernandez > Ben Watson
Faulk then> Faulk now
BJGE> Lomo
Stallworth> every remaining WR on the roster. Shockingly Stallworth actually had better numbers than Gaffney.
Ridley> Sammy Morris

 

[West Philly Patriot]

Perhaps, but to make it a fair comparison let's compare all the pass receivers from each squad rather than strictly focusing on only the WR position.

One team had the following:
a) 122 receptions, 1569 yards, 9 TD
b) 90 receptions, 1327 yards, 17 TD
c) 79 receptions, 910 yards, 7 TD
d) 51 receptions, 702 yards, 5 TD

The other team had this:
a) 112 receptions, 1175 yards, 8 TD
b) 98 receptions, 1493 yards, 23 TD
c) 46 receptions, 697 yards, 3 TD
d) 36 receptions, 449 yards, 5 TD




Personally I'm more inclined to take the first choice, which happens to be the 2011 Patriots wide receivers and tight ends, rather then the second unit, which is the 2007 group.

As for the OL I agree; as mentioned earlier there is no comparison. Waters over Hochstein and either Vollmer or Solder over Kaczur.

The 1st problem is you left off Ben Watson and his nearly 400 receiving yards and 6 TD's. The second would be Kyle Brady's 2 TD's.

I like the variety of the 1st choice but it's hard to argue less production. The '07 team simply out produced this team when it comes to the totality of receiving numbers.

Edit - If u add ocho he and kyle brady cancel each other out but the 07 team still has the edge in scoring the football.

 

[jmt57]

I don't know how anyone can even compare the WR corps, in the words of Lebron James "that's like comparing Jay-z to Soulja boy" so let's just look at the overall weapons this year vs. '07.

Randy Moss and Gronk cancel each other out. Both had record breaking seasons and were virtually uncoverable for the better parts of the season.

Welker pre knee injury> Current Welker.

What do you base that on?
Did you miss the comment above?
2011 Welker: 122 receptions, 1569 yards, 9 TD
2007 Welker: 112 receptions, 1175 yards, 8 TD

Gaffney > every remaining WR on roster

2011 Branch: 51 receptions, 702 yards, 5 TD
2007 Gaffney: 36 receptions, 449 yards, 5 TD

Hernandez > Ben Watson

No kidding.

Faulk then> Faulk now

Comparison should be '07 Faulk to '11 Woodhead, though I do agree that the '07 Faulk is preferable.

BJGE> Lomo

Yep

Stallworth> every remaining WR on the roster. Shockingly Stallworth actually had better numbers than Gaffney.

Moot point. Gaffney had replaced Stallworth at that point. Rarely if ever are any of these people getting on the field.

Ridley> Sammy Morris

Morris went on IR earlier that year, but regardless it's irrelevant.