Semi OT: Pioli's Paranoia? (merged X2)

[MoLewisrocks]

I always thought Scott made a huge mistake in hiring that self absorbed little egomaniac golfer Haley as his first HC'ing decision. I had no idea how badly he screwed up. Worst possible hire for a GM being brought in to change a culture of entitlement that permeated from the deepest recesses of that organization to the know it all insider mediots who covered them.

Long and twisted but interesting read. Apparently Haley thought he was being bugged... I really hope the JETS hire this unaccountable clown. I'd love to watch him further destroy any chemistry or accountability those knuckleheads might have delusions about developing in the swamp.

Arrowhead anxiety: Turnover off the field causes concern - KansasCity.com

 

[Tunescribe]

Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

I always thought Scott made a huge mistake in hiring that self absorbed little egomaniac golfer Haley as his first HC'ing decision. I had no idea how badly he screwed up. Worst possible hire for a GM being brought in to change a culture of entitlement that permeated from the deepest recesses of that organization to the know it all insider mediots who covered them.

Long and twisted but interesting read. Apparently Haley thought he was being bugged... I really hope the JETS hire this unaccountable clown. I'd love to watch him further destroy any chemistry or accountability those knuckleheads might have delusions about developing in the swamp.

Arrowhead anxiety: Turnover off the field causes concern - KansasCity.com

What's funny is Green Beans fans hoping Haley is brought in to instill discipline as Wrecks' "bad cop" designated enforcer.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

I always thought Scott made a huge mistake in hiring that self absorbed little egomaniac golfer Haley as his first HC'ing decision. I had no idea how badly he screwed up. Worst possible hire for a GM being brought in to change a culture of entitlement that permeated from the deepest recesses of that organization to the know it all insider mediots who covered them.

Long and twisted but interesting read. Apparently Haley thought he was being bugged... I really hope the JETS hire this unaccountable clown. I'd love to watch him further destroy any chemistry or accountability those knuckleheads might have delusions about developing in the swamp.

Arrowhead anxiety: Turnover off the field causes concern - KansasCity.com

Hard to determine how valid the article is, but it makes Pioli sound worse than Haley. In fact, it gives a lot of examples of other employees supporting the belief that Haley should have been paranoid. Take it for what its worth. There is a fine line between a disciplined management style and a micromanaging style that sacrifices the big picture to control the minutiae, and you simply can't tell from this article where that line is in KC, but there is more in the article the way it is written to say Pioli is the problem than Haley is.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

Hard to determine how valid the article is, but it makes Pioli sound worse than Haley. In fact, it gives a lot of examples of other employees supporting the belief that Haley should have been paranoid. Take it for what its worth. There is a fine line between a disciplined management style and a micromanaging style that sacrifices the big picture to control the minutiae, and you simply can't tell from this article where that line is in KC, but there is more in the article the way it is written to say Pioli is the problem than Haley is.

I disagree. I think it speaks volumes about an inefficient organization being forced to change, and the usual resistance that goes with these types of cultural changes. Pioli even outright asked ownership about the potential organizational dysfunction before taking the job.

In the War Room, they talk about Chiefs scouts replying to emails in meetings and laughing at silly photos during film sessions. To go from that to the ideal Patriots level is several leaps, and it's no surprise there is severe resistance. Lots of people in the organization are basically being told they're ineffective, useless, or have to change the way they do pretty much everything.

I'm not concerned what the Todd Haleys of the world think about the way we do business. They can point their finger at others when they're embarrassed, they can make up ridiculous rumours if it makes them feel better. We won't be attractive to every single player in the league. But the ones who come here, the ones who want to get better and be the best, appreciate those things. The slackers and losers won't and don't. I don't give a crap what they think.

 

[tobias funke]

Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

Hard to determine how valid the article is, but it makes Pioli sound worse than Haley. In fact, it gives a lot of examples of other employees supporting the belief that Haley should have been paranoid. Take it for what its worth. There is a fine line between a disciplined management style and a micromanaging style that sacrifices the big picture to control the minutiae, and you simply can't tell from this article where that line is in KC, but there is more in the article the way it is written to say Pioli is the problem than Haley is.

There are plenty of quotes defending the new regime as well.

And if I got fired for being lazy or a weak link, I'm sure I'd be bitter, also.

It's a multi-million dollar business. Why shouldn't people be accountable for everything? Most people have worked in places with longtime employees who don't give a **** or put in any effort, because they know they'll probably never get fired.

I don't care either way, really, but the article didn't really sway my opinion about anyone involved. I already believed Haley was nuts, and Pioli controlling and detail-oriented.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

Hard to determine how valid the article is, but it makes Pioli sound worse than Haley. In fact, it gives a lot of examples of other employees supporting the belief that Haley should have been paranoid. Take it for what its worth. There is a fine line between a disciplined management style and a micromanaging style that sacrifices the big picture to control the minutiae, and you simply can't tell from this article where that line is in KC, but there is more in the article the way it is written to say Pioli is the problem than Haley is.

You can't be that gullible after all these years... This is the article Borges has been waiting to write about Bill for 12 years, like the precursor his boys Hobson and Mannix took a preview whack at based on all the credible insight they had received courtesy of their Cleveland brethran and their sources the moment he was hired. Disgruntled former employees are generally entitled lackeys who couldn't cut it in a results driven enterprise.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

There are plenty of quotes defending the new regime as well.

And if I got fired for being lazy or a weak link, I'm sure I'd be bitter, also.

It's a multi-million dollar business. Why shouldn't people be accountable for everything? Most people have worked in places with longtime employees who don't give a **** or put in any effort, because they know they'll probably never get fired.

I don't care either way, really, but the article didn't really sway my opinion about anyone involved. I already believed Haley was nuts, and Pioli controlling and detail-oriented.

I was commenting on the article and qualified that I questioned its validity.
I fully understand accountablity and ridding an organization of the wrong attitudes.
That said, unless, like you, you go into the article with a preconceived notion, it paints a worse picture of Pioli than Haley.
Its only description of Haley is that he felt he was being monitored and it went on the back up the concern with numerous examples of other employees who felt that way.
As far as Pioli it gave a number of examples that imply he may be more caught up in micromanaging small details than addressing the big picture.
Whehter the article and its criticisms have any validity is another debate, but there is no question the article itself is more damning of Pioli than Haley.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

You can't be that gullible after all these years... This is the article Borges has been waiting to write about Bill for 12 years, like the precursor his boys Hobson and Mannix took a preview whack at based on all the credible insight they had received courtesy of their Cleveland brethran and their sources the moment he was hired. Disgruntled former employees are generally entitled lackeys who couldn't cut it in a results driven enterprise.

I am commenting on the article, not the management style.
From your post I was expecting an article that slammed Haley, and I found one that was not very complementary of Pioli.
How is it gullible to state what the article says?

If you think it was written to support Pioli, right back at you on the gullibility

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

I disagree. I think it speaks volumes about an inefficient organization being forced to change, and the usual resistance that goes with these types of cultural changes. Pioli even outright asked ownership about the potential organizational dysfunction before taking the job.

In the War Room, they talk about Chiefs scouts replying to emails in meetings and laughing at silly photos during film sessions. To go from that to the ideal Patriots level is several leaps, and it's no surprise there is severe resistance. Lots of people in the organization are basically being told they're ineffective, useless, or have to change the way they do pretty much everything.

I'm not concerned what the Todd Haleys of the world think about the way we do business. They can point their finger at others when they're embarrassed, they can make up ridiculous rumours if it makes them feel better. We won't be attractive to every single player in the league. But the ones who come here, the ones who want to get better and be the best, appreciate those things. The slackers and losers won't and don't. I don't give a crap what they think.

Who is we?
None of the things you listed are in the article. I was commenting on what light the article puts Haley and Pioli in. I don't know how you could perceive this article as pro-Pioli

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

I'm basing this on more than just the article itself, but I see you're talking specifically about that article. But for what it's worth, it's basically a hack job and I don't think anyone could put any value into any of it.

 

[tobias funke]

Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

there is no question the article itself is more damning of Pioli than Haley.

Except that is a purely subjective opinion.

So by definition there is question.

I find it very easy to read articles with a critical eye when they include a good dose of quotes from "unnamed sources" and "former employees". The article didn't change any of my 'preconceived notions' not because of them, but simply because it wasn't a very good article.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

Except that is a purely subjective opinion.

So by definition there is question.

I find it very easy to read articles with a critical eye when they include a good dose of quotes from "unnamed sources" and "former employees". The article didn't change any of my 'preconceived notions' not because of them, but simply because it wasn't a very good article.

And I am not saying it should. I am saying the article is written as a negative piece about the organization, not about Haley.
Of course, I agree with Pioli's philosophical approach. It does not mean, though, that questions raised about his over attention to detail, or people skills are made up because he has the right macro approach.

 

[tobias funke]

Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

I'm not saying they're made up. I don't doubt that the people interviewed said those things.

The issue is credibility and understanding. A glorified secretary doesn't believe the football team is better because of Pioli's micromanagement. What is that supposed to mean to me? What position of authority is she speaking from? Just because someone feels a certain way doesn't make them right.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

I always thought Scott made a huge mistake in hiring that self absorbed little egomaniac golfer Haley as his first HC'ing decision. I had no idea how badly he screwed up. Worst possible hire for a GM being brought in to change a culture of entitlement that permeated from the deepest recesses of that organization to the know it all insider mediots who covered them.

Long and twisted but interesting read. Apparently Haley thought he was being bugged... I really hope the JETS hire this unaccountable clown. I'd love to watch him further destroy any chemistry or accountability those knuckleheads might have delusions about developing in the swamp.

Arrowhead anxiety: Turnover off the field causes concern - KansasCity.com

Scott Pioli did not hire Haley; he inherited him. He could have cleaned house, but he didn't, trusting that Haley would provide some continuity, and solve the problem himself, over time. Haley did.

 

[tobias funke]

Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

Scott Pioli did not hire Haley; he inherited him. He could have cleaned house, but he didn't, trusting that Haley would provide some continuity, and solve the problem himself, over time. Haley did.

This isn't true at all.

Pioli hired Haley.

Todd Haley takes Kansas City Chiefs coaching job - ESPN

Scott Pioli, hired last month as general manager, said at a news conference that Haley has a "strong understanding of players and the type of players that create championship football teams."

Haley called this an "ideal situation" for him and "a chance to work with someone I have experience with in Scott."

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

Scott Pioli did not hire Haley; he inherited him. He could have cleaned house, but he didn't, trusting that Haley would provide some continuity, and solve the problem himself, over time. Haley did.

Not sure what planet you posted that from...

He inherited Herm Edwards. He wanted Kirk Ferentz. They had always planned on teaming up when the timing was right. Only Pioli got impatient to strike out on his own and meanwhile Ferentz kids starting attending Iowa and Kirk decided he wanted remain there to coach them. Maybe he thought RAC would jump at the shot to move back to a HC situation, but he oddly stuck it out in Cleveland with Mangini and got his hip replaced. Charlie didn't get fired for another season. They say timing is everything. Haley was his fallback because he was on the JETS staff when Pioli landed there with Bill. Tried to make the connection to the system, although Haley was really never part of it. He was barely a Parcell's guy. Mostly he was his father's son, and his father was an old Steelers personnel guy who had migrated to the JETS. Nepotism is rampant in the game. Haley was Pioli's fallback, but he was a lousy one because he lacks the temperement to be a HC. He almost got Cassel killed that first season, and he planted seeds of doubt about him from the outset in the minds of the fanbase. Charlie salvaged the situation the following year until not surprisingly he and the golf pro couldn't work together. This year he effed up not just the offense but the whole team. That's why he's gone.

 

[blackglass3]

Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

Man, what a bunch of whiny crybabies. A secretary asking "How does this make us a better football team?" is a freakin joke. The last line is also very telling: "There was a time it was a great place." Yeah, I would imagine working a job at a pro football team with no accountability was a pretty choice gig...the NERVE of Pioli trying to change the culture and mindset of "Losing is ok".

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

Man, what a bunch of whiny crybabies. A secretary asking "How does this make us a better football team?" is a freakin joke. The last line is also very telling: "There was a time it was a great place." Yeah, I would imagine working a job at a pro football team with no accountability was a pretty choice gig...the NERVE of Pioli trying to change the culture and mindset of "Losing is ok".

Not surprisingly Michael Silver, who has been taking it on the chin for his defense of Hue Jackson and lambasting of the Raiders for seemingly finally trying to hire a football guy and qualified GM candidate to overhaul that mess of an organization Al created in his dotage, apparently thinks this article was spot on and no one will want to work for Pioli now and Haley has been vindicated...

Michael Silver@MikeSilverReply
Retweet

Hi, Clark Hunt and Scott Pioli--can I come work for you? Arrowhead anxiety: Turnover off the field causes concern - KansasCity.com Wow. Great work by @kentbabb Can't blame Haley from now on...

So many of todays mediots were born to blather on Yahoo and backslap each other on twitter.

 

[DarrylS]

Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

My take is somewhat different, Pioli coming into an organization that was top heavy with a lot of dead weight, cleans house to make the Chiefs a more streamlined organization...

Along the way he pysses a lot of folks off who obviously are angry, an article is written, but the Chiefs did not allow Pioli to contribute to the article, so they can print whatever they want to.... a better article would have been to allow Pioli to counter. Whenever an article deals with unnamed sources then it deserves a double flus....

This is a whole lot of whining and bytching about how business can be done in the NFL authored by a guy who may be KC's version of Ron Borges..

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Semi OT: Paranoia runs deep and apparently parallel to lack of accountability

That dead weight probably talked to the media a lot, before Scott arrived, too. That's how a lot of FO fringe players get ahead in the NFL, quid pro quo with their mediot toadies talking them up. Seems Haley wanted to play that game but his paranoia made it harder to. That he seemed inclined to go that route is grounds enough for firing his ass, the piss poor job he did aside. And this piece has to be giving even the JETS trepidation about hiring this tool, or Wisenhut second thoughts about re-hiring him. Scott won't dignify this crap any more than Bill will. That just gives it legs in a fight you can't win. Speaking of which, winning is what settles it. So that will be Scott's focus from here on out. Getting 53 guys and a support and coaching staff all rowing in the same direction. RAC should help with that. They have the talent, maybe not to win it all, but to win that division and compete in the post season. Haley was just a setback or a roadblock and once removed they once again have a decent shot at achieving their goals. If they fail again, then Scott will be looking for work as justifiably as Haley is now and most of those hacks who lost their cushy NFL gigs in KC still are.

Too many mediots suffer from Matt Millen syndrome, although they appear to be oblivious to how that all turned out. Simply observing something for years doesn't qualify you to run a franchise.