Another reason for BB to take Gostkowski

[ctpatsfan77]

One of the less-mentioned aspects of the DAL meltdown was the fact that Gramatica couldn't tackle Babineaux hard enough to give Romo the time he needed for a first down or TD.

And that's one advantage Gostkowski had the entire time over Gramatica: size. Gostkowski has about 6 inches and 40 pounds on Gramatica--plus he is willing to try and tackle guys. No one's about to mistake him for Mike Vrabel or Rodney,* but he'll go after guys when necessary.

In other words--as Don Banks implied--had the Cowboys drafted Gostkowski, they'd probably still be in the playoffs right now (heck, they'd probably have won the NFC East if they had!).

*AV was also apparently noted for his tackling ability: he tackled Herschel Walker(!) to save a touchdown, and according to one Globe article, tackled another player hard enough to leave him writhing on the sidelines.

 

[jaychamp]

My guess is Gost's tackling ability was a 0% factor in drafting and keeping him. Grammatica is just a wimp, and that's why Sauerbrun wants to beat him up.

 

[FirstAndGoal]

Actually, AV has made a few tackles this year to save the Colts from themselves.

 

[The Predator]

I think it is ludicrous to claim the cowboys would have won if they had ghost. give me a break. there is no proof for such a thing. this is playoff time and you want to discuss how well our kicker tackles??? holy cow.

 

[Alk]

Besides, if Gramatica had tackled that guy, don't you think they would have thrown a flag for holding?

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I think it is ludicrous to claim the cowboys would have won if they had ghost. give me a break. there is no proof for such a thing. this is playoff time and you want to discuss how well our kicker tackles??? holy cow.

Why is this irrelevant? We've seen ample evidence in the past two weeks that the inability to handle the snap properly--let alone actually kick the ball--can end a season. In this case, Romo needed less than two yards--maybe a third of a second--to get a first down (or even a TD). If Gramatica had actually tried to tackle Babineaux, instead of just reaching out and trying to grab him, Romo would have had a very good chance of getting the first down. Gostkowski has made tackles (and, the Globe pointed out a few months ago that Brad Seely, the ST coach, expects whoever's kicking to be able to make tackles when needed).

 

[Handel]

In other words--as Don Banks implied--had the Cowboys drafted Gostkowski, they'd probably still be in the playoffs right now (heck, they'd probably have won the NFC East if they had!).

Don't think he implied that.

Posted: Tuesday December 5, 2006 12:15PM; Updated: Tuesday December 5, 2006 12:57PM

 

[IcyPatriot]

Perhaps irrelevant right now but I expect an extra play of 2 for Ghost in the years to come ... he's one heck of an athlete according to his background.

No way belichick drafted him for this but you know he will put a play
or two in there for him. He was an excellant baseball player with an excellant arm ... one day that arm will throw a TD or two to pull
out a win for the team ... but again ... that's not why he was drafted.

 

[jbb9s]

One of the less-mentioned aspects of the DAL meltdown was the fact that Gramatica couldn't tackle Babineaux hard enough to give Romo the time he needed for a first down or TD.

And that's one advantage Gostkowski had the entire time over Gramatica: size. Gostkowski has about 6 inches and 40 pounds on Gramatica--plus he is willing to try and tackle guys. No one's about to mistake him for Mike Vrabel or Rodney,* but he'll go after guys when necessary.

In other words--as Don Banks implied--had the Cowboys drafted Gostkowski, they'd probably still be in the playoffs right now (heck, they'd probably have won the NFC East if they had!).

*AV was also apparently noted for his tackling ability: he tackled Herschel Walker(!) to save a touchdown, and according to one Globe article, tackled another player hard enough to leave him writhing on the sidelines.

This is quite a ridiculous thread but now that you mention it, it is a good thing our kicker is such a good tackler because at the rate at which he has kicks blocked, eventually he will have to tackle a D-linemen who picks one up and starts going the other way........!

 

[alamo]

Besides, if Gramatica had tackled that guy, don't you think they would have thrown a flag for holding?

Yes, and that would have been a smart play. 15 yard penalty, now it's 4th and 16 instead of 4th and 1, but it's still only a 35 yard FG attempt and the Cowboys probably win.

Of course, this assumes a hold by Gramatica enables Romo to score the TD or at least get the first down, which forces the Seahawks to accept the penalty rather than declining it.

 

[Oswlek]

My guess is Gost's tackling ability was a 0% factor in drafting and keeping him. Grammatica is just a wimp, and that's why Sauerbrun wants to beat him up.

I have not seen the Dallas play enough to know whether Gost would have impacted that one, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that tackling ability is a big consideration when analyzing a kicker. Of course KOs and FGs rank much higher, but many teams essentially play their KO special teams 10 on 11. Having a guy who will be athletic enough to at least get in the way and let the coverage catch up will typically benefit 1 to 3 games per season.

 

[zippo59]

I can't really recall Gostkowski lighting anyone up this year either.

 

[stcjones]

One of the less-mentioned aspects of the DAL meltdown was the fact that Gramatica couldn't tackle Babineaux hard enough to give Romo the time he needed for a first down or TD.

And that's one advantage Gostkowski had the entire time over Gramatica: size. Gostkowski has about 6 inches and 40 pounds on Gramatica--plus he is willing to try and tackle guys. No one's about to mistake him for Mike Vrabel or Rodney,* but he'll go after guys when necessary.

In other words--as Don Banks implied--had the Cowboys drafted Gostkowski, they'd probably still be in the playoffs right now (heck, they'd probably have won the NFC East if they had!).

*AV was also apparently noted for his tackling ability: he tackled Herschel Walker(!) to save a touchdown, and according to one Globe article, tackled another player hard enough to leave him writhing on the sidelines.

This isn't fair to Grammatica...If he had had the time to put on his ski mask/hamburgler mask....he would have made that tackle man!!!!!!

 

[patchick]

Yes, and that would have been a smart play. 15 yard penalty, now it's 4th and 16 instead of 4th and 1, but it's still only a 35 yard FG attempt and the Cowboys probably win.

Not to go deeper down this rabbit hole but...no, the Seahawks simply decline that penalty.

I have to assume the original poster meant block, not tackle?

 

[Oswlek]

Not to go deeper down this rabbit hole but...no, the Seahawks simply decline that penalty.

I have to assume the original poster meant block, not tackle?

What he was saying was that with the tackle/block Romo could have gotten a first or a TD. Seattle certainly wouldn't have declined the penalty then, and there is a chance that no penalty is called. It is a sound move under those circumstances.

 

[Pujo]

What he was saying was that with the tackle/block Romo could have gotten a first or a TD. Seattle certainly wouldn't have declined the penalty then, and there is a chance that no penalty is called. It is a sound move under those circumstances.

How much time was on the clock? Don't forget the mandatory 10 second running on an offensive penalty - would it have run them out of time?

 

[patchick]

What he was saying was that with the tackle/block Romo could have gotten a first or a TD. Seattle certainly wouldn't have declined the penalty then, and there is a chance that no penalty is called. It is a sound move under those circumstances.

Ok, fair enough. But I'd still say that it's fair to pillory Gramatica for not throwing even a passable block, but not fair to pillory him for failing to instantly calculate that in that circumstance a flagrant hold may turn out to be beneficial because Romo may make it to the endzone with the illegal hold but not without!

(Imagine Romo scores a TD but it's reversed because of a hold by the kicker. Then they kick the FG, Seattle gets the ball back and kicks one of their own, Seahawks win by one. Would you want to be Gramatica then?)

 

[spacecrime]

Actually, AV has made a few tackles this year to save the Colts from themselves.

AV has been credited with 2 solo tackles and two assists with the Cols, SG with 1 solo and 1 assist.

Don't be too hard on Martin. Re-watch the play. He was running forward to kick and the ball wasn't there, so he overran Romo. He turned immediately, saw Romo take off, and came back to push Babineaux, but he had no leverage. It would have been a miraculous play for a LB or DB to stop Babineaux given where the players stood at the time (again, re-watch the tape). It isn't like Babineaux is just going to fall down because someone grabs him. He makes a living shedding blocks.

Martin chased the play, but to no avail.

I thought he did the best that could be expected of anyone.

The problem wasn't Romo or Grammatica, or even Terry Glenn. It was 60 minutes of putrid football by the Cowboys..

 

[MDD]

How much time was on the clock? Don't forget the mandatory 10 second running on an offensive penalty - would it have run them out of time?

I think there was a minute left.

Gramatica's getting a bad rap here. He had nailed a long one earlier to keep them in that game in the first place, and generally did well for a last-second replacement this season.

With that said, in drafting Gotskowski, the Pats were definitely looking for a "football player who kicks", much like the guy he replaced.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

How much time was on the clock? Don't forget the mandatory 10 second running on an offensive penalty - would it have run them out of time?

The Cowboys had 1:19, so that wasn't a factor.

Ok, fair enough. But I'd still say that it's fair to pillory Gramatica for not throwing even a passable block, but not fair to pillory him for failing to instantly calculate that in that circumstance a flagrant hold may turn out to be beneficial because Romo may make it to the endzone with the illegal hold but not without!

Agreed on both counts: I'm not faulting Gramatica for not actually tackling Babineaux, but for not even trying.