Guessing at the franchise tags for Graham/Samuel

[Miguel]

The TEs with the 5 largest cap hits in 2006
Tony Gonzalez Kansas City $6,531,370
Antonio Gates San Diego $4,860,000
Alge Crumpler Atlanta $4,355,000
Jeremy Shockey NY Giants $4,179,000
Kellen Winslow Cleveland $3,836,375
Average - $4,752,000

The CBs with the 5 largest cap hits in 2006
Chris McAlister Baltimore $8,407,082
Champ Bailey Denver $7,992,000
Nate Clements Buffalo $7,226,000
Charles Woodson Green Bay $6,709,330
Ronde Barber Tampa Bay $6,564,000
Average - $7,380,000

 

[Miguel]

FYI - According to Peter King it will cost $7.8 million to tag Asante so my numbers are off.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

The TEs with the 5 largest cap hits in 2006
Tony Gonzalez Kansas City $6,531,370
Antonio Gates San Diego $4,860,000
Alge Crumpler Atlanta $4,355,000
Jeremy Shockey NY Giants $4,179,000
Kellen Winslow Cleveland $3,836,375
Average - $4,752,000

The CBs with the 5 largest cap hits in 2006
Chris McAlister Baltimore $8,407,082
Champ Bailey Denver $7,992,000
Nate Clements Buffalo $7,226,000
Charles Woodson Green Bay $6,709,330
Ronde Barber Tampa Bay $6,564,000
Average - $7,380,000

I like Graham and hope we can sign him for <$3.7 million per year. He's not worth the $4.7M franchise #. At CB there's Bailey and everyone else. The price is high but I'd pay the F # for Asante unless for some inexplicable reason we draft 2 phenoms at CB which ain't gonna happen.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Thanks Miguel. For grins and giggles, how does it look for TBC?

In terms of "hardest to replace," I rank our three "starting" 2007 free agents - Banta-Cain, Graham, Samuel. Somehow I am sure there will be differing views...

 

[Pawn512]

FYI - According to Peter King it will cost $7.8 million to tag Asante so my numbers are off.

I wouldn't be so sure. "Math" and "facts" aren't necessarily Peter King's strong suite.

 

[BelichickFan]

Franchsing Samuel is a no brainer IMO. Partly because he's just about worth that money IMO. And second, even if we don't pay it, we keep control of him. He can't sign with whoever he wants. He can only sign with a team we're willing to trade him to - and we would surely get more in a trade than the comp pick.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

I wouldn't be so sure. "Math" and "facts" aren't necessarily Peter King's strong suite.

Amen, brother, amen!

 

[kpreh]

TBC has stepped it up this year I believe the Pats should sign him up for a few years if possible. Of course I would like to see AS stay but it sounds like he is ready to take the money and go (maybe even try to trade him to see what the Pats could get for him?) Just my idle thoughts.

 

[DaBruinz]

Well, with the numbers coming out thanks to Miguel and with Asante's garbage, I thinik that Pats will Franchise Asante and then try to trade him prior to the draft for a package similar to or better than they goto Tebucky. In fact, if I was the Pats, I would attempt to trade Asante to the Bears for someone like Mike Brown or Nathan Vasher and a draft pick.

 

[patchick]

Miguel, are those the "exclusive franchise" numbers? (Hard to imagine there's any risk in going non-exclusive -- what team is going to risk forfeiting 2 #1 picks for either player?)

 

[Gumby]

Well although the Franch numbers for Asante are higher than what I would want to pay for him; I would still use the F on Asante before I would on Graham.

Hope we can find a way to keep them both.

 

[DaBruinz]

Miguel, are those the "exclusive franchise" numbers? (Hard to imagine there's any risk in going non-exclusive -- what team is going to risk forfeiting 2 #1 picks for either player?)

Those would be the NON-EXCLUSIVE numbers. An Exclusive Franchise player can not negotiate with other teams.

And, while I don't believe any team would forfeit two #1 picks, a team could do like New Orleans did in 2003 for Tebucky and trade the Pats multiple picks in multiple years.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Well, with the numbers coming out thanks to Miguel and with Asante's garbage, I thinik that Pats will Franchise Asante and then try to trade him prior to the draft for a package similar to or better than they goto Tebucky. In fact, if I was the Pats, I would attempt to trade Asante to the Bears for someone like Mike Brown or Nathan Vasher and a draft pick.

Asante's worth that money to me - seems to me that there's a number slightly south of that per season that gives him the long-term security he wants.

The question of what "fair market value" is in this day and age of such a large cap number doesn't have a direct answer. Seems to me the Patriots can pay a hefty amount and still say with a straight face that they got the player to accept a below market value deal.

CB is one area where I don't mind paying a lot for the right guy.

Graham is not worth $4.75 mil to me per year - though he's worth more to me today than I had him assessed at earlier in the seaon

but to rent him for one season at that amount, I might do it, even if it is overpaying him - for just one year

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Exclusive numbers don't get calculated until mid April of next season - they are the average of the 5 highest paid in the current and not the previous season.

They could also transition either, and simply see what their market shakes out to be. All that gives us is the right to match, but it sometimes puts other teams off because they have to wait a week to see if the got the player and potentially miss out on making another deal. There is also the problem of the poison pills, which the league and union have not been able to agree on - although the commissioners office would likely frown on anyone who tries to start that crap again this season.

 

[DaBruinz]

Asante's worth that money to me - seems to me that there's a number slightly south of that per season that gives him the long-term security he wants.

The question of what "fair market value" is in this day and age of such a large cap number doesn't have a direct answer. Seems to me the Patriots can pay a hefty amount and still say with a straight face that they got the player to accept a below market value deal.

CB is one area where I don't mind paying a lot for the right guy.

Graham is not worth $4.75 mil to me per year - though he's worth more to me today than I had him assessed at earlier in the seaon

but to rent him for one season at that amount, I might do it, even if it is overpaying him - for just one year

Joe - The initial reports had the Pats offering in the realm of Brian Williams money, which I believe is about 5 million a year with a 7 million signing bonus. The only thing I remember is that Samuel and his agent wanted a 10 million signing bonus and numbers closer to Ty Law's contract with the Pats.

Samuel isn't as good as Law. I'd rather trade him and rebuild than shell out money for someone who goes for the big hit but can't wrap up and tackle properly.

 

[lobster]

With 2 first round picks I don't believe the Pat's will use the franchise tag on either Samuel or Graham. Instead I expect both to receive very respectable offers. Vinateri had so much pride in his kicking that he would play at the top of his ability irregardless of being franchised.

 

[patchick]

Exclusive numbers don't get calculated until mid April of next season - they are the average of the 5 highest paid in the current and not the previous season.

They could also transition either, and simply see what their market shakes out to be. All that gives us is the right to match, but it sometimes puts other teams off because they have to wait a week to see if the got the player and potentially miss out on making another deal. There is also the problem of the poison pills, which the league and union have not been able to agree on - although the commissioners office would likely frown on anyone who tries to start that crap again this season.

Ok, thanks!

 

[PatsSox363804]

I hope we can bring Graham back at a reasonable price, especially with Watsons recent stone hands and fumblitis. Asante is definitely a no brainer to tag, he would net a good draft pick or at worst play another year while we groom a corner that we can use one of the firsts on.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Joe - The initial reports had the Pats offering in the realm of Brian Williams money, which I believe is about 5 million a year with a 7 million signing bonus. The only thing I remember is that Samuel and his agent wanted a 10 million signing bonus and numbers closer to Ty Law's contract with the Pats.

Samuel isn't as good as Law. I'd rather trade him and rebuild than shell out money for someone who goes for the big hit but can't wrap up and tackle properly.

Pay the 10 million but try to stick with the 5 million per.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

what is the transition tag #'s look like?