Pats' D going into the playoffs

[Deus Irae]

Nothing's changed. The defense sucks and the playoffs will be all about the offense bailing out that defense, especially if the Patriots ever face a good quarterback.

That being said, it's possible that the Patriots could be lucky enough not to face a good QB until the Super Bowl. If Pittsburgh and Baltimore meet up in the second round and Baltimore wins, the Patriots could go through the entire AFC playoffs without ever facing a quarterback that's truly playoff caliber.

 

[tests]

Nothing's changed. The defense sucks and the playoffs will be all about the offense bailing out that defense, especially if the Patriots ever face a good quarterback.

That being said, it's possible that the Patriots could be lucky enough not to face a good QB until the Super Bowl. If Pittsburgh and Baltimore meet up in the second round and Baltimore wins, the Patriots could go through the entire AFC playoffs without ever facing a quarterback that's truly playoff caliber.

Last i recall, patriots got their ass handed to the sanchez's and flaccos of the world

 

[makoute]

Last i recall, patriots got their ass handed to the sanchez's and flaccos of the world

Exactly, not only that, the Pats D actually played decently in the Jets game, it was the offense who didn't show up, the Baltimore lost was more of a team effort.

 

[Deus Irae]

Last i recall, patriots got their ass handed to the sanchez's and flaccos of the world

For the most part this season, the offense has shown itself to be able to keep pace when bad QBs score on them. There are only a small handful of defenses worthy of the title this year (Steelers/Ravens/49ers/Texans(?) ), so it's the QBs who can really sling it that concern me. In the end, the Patriots didn't lose a game to any QB that wasn't either genuinely good or at least playing well at the time. And, to give the defense some due props, the Patriots have only allowed an opponent to score 30 points once this year (First Bills game), making them one of only 5 teams to have allowed 30+ one time or fewer:

Patriots
Ravens
Steelers
Texans
49ers


I may think the defense sucks, but I also think that the coaching staff has done a hell of a job coaching it and making needed adjustments. I'm not sold on that being enough against the better teams in the playoffs, but it's worked for the most part so far, and it's pretty much what we as Patriots fans have to hang our hats on.

 

[makoute]

For the most part this season, the offense has shown itself to be able to keep pace when bad QBs score on them. There are only a small handful of defenses worthy of the title this year (Steelers/Ravens/49ers/Texans(?) ), so it's the QBs who can really sling it that concern me. In the end, the Patriots didn't lose a game to any QB that wasn't either genuinely good or at least playing well at the time. And, to give the defense some due props, the Patriots have only allowed an opponent to score 30 points once this year (First Bills game), making them one of only 5 teams to have allowed 30+ one time or fewer:

Patriots
Ravens
Steelers
Texans
49ers


I may think the defense sucks, but I also think that the coaching staff has done a hell of a job coaching it and making needed adjustments. I'm not sold on that being enough against the better teams in the playoffs, but it's worked for the most part so far, and it's pretty much what we as Patriots fans have to hang our hats on.

How does this change the fact that the last two teams the Pats lost to in the playoffs featured Joe Flacco, and Mark Sanchez? I mean the op's whole point was that the Pats will not face any good qbs in the playoff, therefore the defense should be good to go.

 

[RIpats88]

if the O-line can give brady time, we will put points on the board. thats the key here. what turned the offense around in the 2nd half was in large part due to the improved play of the O-line giving brady time...

I think our team is alot more mentally tough than it was in 2009 or 2010...that team in 09 gave up when/if we were under pressure...and with the improvements of Gronk/hernandez/welker I think our offense is deadlier to stop

I just like our chances going into the playoffs this year...its a 2 game series..and the best QB we may have to face could be Roethlisberger who hasnt looked that great. and the Ravens have their own problems offensively and with consistency there...its a wide open race in the AFC and I think we are in a good position

 

[RIpats88]

How does this change the fact that the last two teams the Pats lost to in the playoffs featured Joe Flacco, and Mark Sanchez? I mean the op's whole point was that the Pats will not face any good qbs in the playoff, therefore the defense should be good to go.

wasnt flacco something like 1-10 in that playoff loss in 09?? and the pats only scored 3 points until the 3rd quarter against the Jets.

those werent cases of the defense losing the game because of great QB play, those were cases of brady getting nothing done offensively and they got run over

 

[Deus Irae]

How does this change the fact that the last two teams the Pats lost to in the playoffs featured Joe Flacco, and Mark Sanchez? I mean the op's whole point was that the Pats will not face any good qbs in the playoff, therefore the defense should be good to go.

I'm sorry you were unable to grasp the point my post. Here, let me revisit some highlights for you:

For the most part this season, the offense has shown itself to be able to keep pace when bad QBs score on them

one of only 5 teams to have allowed 30+ one time or fewer

The defense sucks. The offense doesn't.

 

[makoute]

I'm sorry you were unable to grasp the point my post. Here, let me revisit some highlights for you:






The defense sucks. The offense doesn't.

Wasn't that basically the case last year? They suck more this year, but they were not that good last year. Which is my point.

 

[SVN]

The problem with your hope is that the last two playoffs they lost for the Pats came at the hand of Sanchez, and Flacco. So, you can't depend on facing crappy qb's, since that hasn't worked too well for the pats the past two playoffs.

Right now there isnt much you can do. It is what it is. The Offense has to play better than it has in the past playoff games and the D has to hold on. Yes they lost to flacco but that was flawed team with no welker or either of these 2 TE. This is a much better team offensively. Last yr's jets loss yes they lost with all those players. But this team has a chance with this D face these QB's than manning or roethlisberger or any of these QBs.

 

[Schmo]

How does this change the fact that the last two teams the Pats lost to in the playoffs featured Joe Flacco, and Mark Sanchez? I mean the op's whole point was that the Pats will not face any good qbs in the playoff, therefore the defense should be good to go.

Actually, my point was to subtly show that going into the playoffs, this D could be in the best shape it's been all year personel-wise. It's really hard to gauge how the D could handle a Rodgers/Brees, but I think they will be in a good position to stop offenses.

It's a week to week game, and in 3 weeks we could have a good amount of defensive starters on the field. When was the last time we were able to say that?

 

[Fencer]

We did recently IR our best pass rusher.

Anyhow, the DL is deep this year, and is lining up solid players despite all the injuries and player releases. Brace is actually pretty good to be a healthy scratch.

The LBs could be a solid group with Fletcher and Spikes back.

The number of solid DBs could go up to three. (Arrington/McCourty/Chung.)

 

[Banjo]

I'm dying for the Jets and Broncos to get into and win in the playoffs.

Patriots vs. Jets & vs. Broncos would be a piece of cake!

 

[PatriotReign]

The problem with your hope is that the last two playoffs they lost for the Pats came at the hand of Sanchez, and Flacco. So, you can't depend on facing crappy qb's, since that hasn't worked too well for the pats the past two playoffs.

The 09 loss was to the Ravens D and Ray Rice, Flacco was a non factor completing 3-7 for 30 something yards.

 

[Joker]

I was there...up close in 109...the Pats were depleted,Welker went down the week before,Brady had three injuries we knew almost nothing about, one of them on his throwing hand, the Ravens were calling our offensive plays out before we ran them..it was so bad in the 2nd half that Brady took the snap, made a step back and threw to his right behind the LOS...THREE Raven defenders were there including Reed, who came running up as the ball was being snapped. Injuries are no excuse, but O'Brien calling the same delayed draw to Faulk ten freaking times never gaining squat was a bit deflating...plus it was bone freezing cold...you nailed it on Flacco..i believe he was 4/9 for 36 yards...

 

[PatriotSeven]

Nothing's changed. The defense sucks and the playoffs will be all about the offense bailing out that defense, especially if the Patriots ever face a good quarterback.

That being said, it's possible that the Patriots could be lucky enough not to face a good QB until the Super Bowl. If Pittsburgh and Baltimore meet up in the second round and Baltimore wins, the Patriots could go through the entire AFC playoffs without ever facing a quarterback that's truly playoff caliber.

You're right about that part. People still have no clue what makes a good or bad defense. There are two types in the NFL. The types that don't allow yards or points. And the types that allow yards but no points. Sometimes the one that allows yards and no points, can actually be an even better defense than the first one. It's far more demoralizing for opponents' offenses. What matters more than anything is efficiency, and in particular your offense's efficiency.

Take the Jaguars defense, take Pittsburg's defense, take the Raven's defense...any defense you want to use, and put them against a team with an efficient offense, versus a team with a less efficient offense, and while the scores may be lower ...the teams with those "great defenses" will STILL LOSE THE GAME 8 out of 10 times to the team with the looser defense but more efficient offense. And it doesn't matter if you're in the regular season, the playoffs or the Super Bowl, this doesn't change.

What needs to change is not NE's defense, it's the RATING SYSTEM of defenses. It's using old cliches and the media like ESPN continuously pointing to this one stat and saying the Patriots have the 32nd worse defense when they are currently:

#2 in points allowed
#2 in scoring defense efficiency

If you're going to use one stat to rank a part of your team, at least stop using the worst, and most meaningless, one: yards

Those two above, and in particular the second one, are far more important when it comes to the stat that actually really matters: winning or losing. Efficiency and points have a lot more to do with winning or losing than yards do.

Yards measures effort.
Points measures result.
Wins measures the result that matters.

So every time a defense forces a team to put in a whole lot of effort, and come out with few points as a result, most often you get the result that matters most: the win.

Don't change a thing about this defense. The only way to make this defense top 10 in the league in yards allowed is for Bill and the Patriots offense to start running the clock out, running the ball instead of passing, and start playing for field position. That's what those "top 10" defenses have in common the most. Inefficient offenses. Running offenses. Clock managing offenses. Clock chewing offenses. And why the heck would anyone want to turn the Patriots offense back a decade just to have a defense ranked top 10 in the most meaningless category there is?

What really needs to change, is people's understanding and false perceptions of football.

Here's the message I wanna give to anyone else that thinks NE has a bad defense: Jim Mora You Will Never Know - YouTube

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

For the most part this season, the offense has shown itself to be able to keep pace when bad QBs score on them. There are only a small handful of defenses worthy of the title this year (Steelers/Ravens/49ers/Texans(?) ), so it's the QBs who can really sling it that concern me. In the end, the Patriots didn't lose a game to any QB that wasn't either genuinely good or at least playing well at the time. And, to give the defense some due props, the Patriots have only allowed an opponent to score 30 points once this year (First Bills game), making them one of only 5 teams to have allowed 30+ one time or fewer:

Patriots
Ravens
Steelers
Texans
49ers


I may think the defense sucks, but I also think that the coaching staff has done a hell of a job coaching it and making needed adjustments. I'm not sold on that being enough against the better teams in the playoffs, but it's worked for the most part so far, and it's pretty much what we as Patriots fans have to hang our hats on.

(on a side note) a bit astonishing to see you give any props for the D. You definitely have been unwavering in your utter dislike for the defense.

I think any fair evaluation says the Patriot defense versus a playoff quality team could get ugly (though I would take it further and say the O could find itself struggling mightily against a quality D). But taking into account what each phase of this team has shown as well as the coaching staff's abilities, no one should be shocked to see the Patriots win their two AFC playoff games and go to the SB........just as no one should be shocked if they lose one of those games. In the past us fans were treated to many playoff games where confidence of victory was high. The confidence won't be high this time around but at least we aren't anywhere in the vicinity of having to pull off a big upset. So where you suggest we fans hang our hats is really not too bad a place.

 

[TomPatriot]

You're right about that part. People still have no clue what makes a good or bad defense. There are two types in the NFL. The types that don't allow yards or points. And the types that allow yards but no points. Sometimes the one that allows yards and no points, can actually be an even better defense than the first one. It's far more demoralizing for opponents' offenses. What matters more than anything is efficiency, and in particular your offense's efficiency.

Take the Jaguars defense, take Pittsburg's defense, take the Raven's defense...any defense you want to use, and put them against a team with an efficient offense, versus a team with a less efficient offense, and while the scores may be lower ...the teams with those "great defenses" will STILL LOSE THE GAME 8 out of 10 times to the team with the looser defense but more efficient offense. And it doesn't matter if you're in the regular season, the playoffs or the Super Bowl, this doesn't change.

What needs to change is not NE's defense, it's the RATING SYSTEM of defenses. It's using old cliches and the media like ESPN continuously pointing to this one stat and saying the Patriots have the 32nd worse defense when they are currently:

#2 in points allowed
#2 in scoring defense efficiency

If you're going to use one stat to rank a part of your team, at least stop using the worst, and most meaningless, one: yards

Those two above, and in particular the second one, are far more important when it comes to the stat that actually really matters: winning or losing. Efficiency and points have a lot more to do with winning or losing than yards do.

Yards measures effort.
Points measures result.
Wins measures the result that matters.

So every time a defense forces a team to put in a whole lot of effort, and come out with few points as a result, most often you get the result that matters most: the win.

Don't change a thing about this defense. The only way to make this defense top 10 in the league in yards allowed is for Bill and the Patriots offense to start running the clock out, running the ball instead of passing, and start playing for field position. That's what those "top 10" defenses have in common the most. Inefficient offenses. Running offenses. Clock managing offenses. Clock chewing offenses. And why the heck would anyone want to turn the Patriots offense back a decade just to have a defense ranked top 10 in the most meaningless category there is?

What really needs to change, is people's understanding and false perceptions of football.

Here's the message I wanna give to anyone else that thinks NE has a bad defense: Jim Mora You Will Never Know - YouTube

This. Saints, Pack, Pats. Yards defense-25, 31, 32. Points defense-17, 15, 16.

Points and yards offense-1, 4, 2. Teams records-11-3, 13-1, 12-3.

There is no discrepancy on the offensive side and a big discrepancy on the defensive side. This is why we win. It's not the only way to win but it is the most contemporary.

An excellent post by Patriotseven.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

>>>>The problem with your hope is that the last two playoffs they lost for the Pats came at the hand of Sanchez, and Flacco. So, you can't depend on facing crappy qb's, since that hasn't worked too well for the pats the past two playoffs.<<<<

The loss to the Raven's wasn't, per se, bad play by the Patriots' <fill in the blank>, the Ravens just physically manhandled the Patriots on both sides of the ball. That physical domination made everything the Ravens were doing seem like they were coasting downhill. Conversely, everything the Patriots were doing was an uphill struggle. Bringing up the pass defense in the context of that loss is not appropriate.

Suggestion: find a way to deal with your disappointment that opposing QBs will be putting up some significant passing yards. This is the state of our D, like it or not. But once in the payoffs, winning two games brutally ugly is perfectly good. Who gives a rat's ***** if Flacco puts up 500 yards and we make him look like Joe Montana, Dan Marino and Johnny unitas combined....just as long as it results in a win for the Patriots. And if the Patriots play as they are capable of in all three phases, our chances for victory are promising.

 

[PatriotSeven]

This. Saints, Pack, Pats. Yards defense-25, 31, 32. Points defense-17, 15, 16.

Points and yards offense-1, 4, 2. Teams records-11-3, 13-1, 12-3.

There is no discrepancy on the offensive side and a big discrepancy on the defensive side. This is why we win. It's not the only way to win but it is the most contemporary.

An excellent post by Patriotseven.

But it also goes the other way and there's a huge discrepancy on offense when compared to some of those teams with "top defenses".



"Total defense":
1 Pittsburgh 273.9
5 Jacksonville 314.0
8 Philadelphia 321.4
11 Cleveland 330.5


Now let's look at their offensive efficiency:
22nd Philadelphia 16.6
25th Jacksonville 17.4
26th Pittsburgh 17.9
30th Cleveland 21.0

But their defenses are at the top of the league in yards allowed! Yay? They also have to be because they have terrible offenses who execute poorly, turn over the ball and quarterbacks who are playing bad. So who cares? There's only one team that has an inefficient offense that's mustered up a solid winning record consistently in this league this year and that's Pittsburg. One team out of 32!

For an offense, when you get a lot of yards, but without the points, you are actually WORSE than an offense who gets fewer yards but the matching points. People think they are better because they can move the ball but no...they are not. What's happening is they have stalled drives without points, and give their opponents offense an opportunity to put up points. They drove up the field for nothing and turned over the ball.

Does it matter that Philadelphia's ranked 8th in yards allowed and their offense can put up 400+ yards a game? No, it doesn't. Defense can't save Vick's and that offense's execution unless they are playing against a team with an offense executing worse than their own. Same goes for Carolina and people say the same thing about them. That it's the defense, except they are 6-0 when the QB turns over the ball and defense allows less than 20 points per game and few yards allowed, and 0-9 when the offense doesn't and defense gets blown out. You would think some would kind of.....catch on....but no. People don't.

Teams like the Eagles could have the #1 defense in yards in the league and the #1 offense in yards in the league and they will not make the playoffs if they play like they played earlier this season. Ever. Not when you are executing that badly and that inconsistent on offense. The only time teams like Carolina or Eagles win is when they face teams that are even more inefficient than they are. Jaguars, Tampa Bay, Washington, Indianapolis, Cowboys, etc...

Isn't it amazing that Cam Newton had two back to back games of over 400 passing yards, set records, total offense of 500+ yards, but lost both of them and the team put up less than 24 points? But yesterday he passed for only 170 yards, 17 attempts, less total offensive yards, didn't turn over the ball and Carolina put up 48 points? Did Tampa Bay's offensive inefficiency have anything to do with it maybe? Did Cam Newton's better playing, better ball protection, and more consistent scoring? Isn't it amazing that the #1 rushing team got completely shut down by one of the worst rush defenses in the league yesterday when the Bills faced the Broncos?

Or perhaps those measurements used to crown them #1 were terrible in the first place. Just maybe....it tends to happen every year. It's what makes for great "upsets". Maybe that's what the media's counting on and wants to continue to keep the focus and mis-direction on the least meaningful measurements so the NFL can have these fantastic stories?

Running around like a chicken with your head cut off. That's what the Eagles do. That's what the Panthers did this year. That's what the Cowboys have done for the past decade. No defense can help you. No amount of yards gained or yards allowed, and no amount of talent you can surround yourself with, can ever make up for incompetence and making stupid mistakes all day long. Ever. Not saying those players are stupid, but their offense's execution can best be summarized as such.