Todd McShay's Initial Mock - DE Melvin Ingram & CB Jonathan Banks

[State]

It looks interesting. What do you think?

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-...id/4712953/mocking-up-some-help-on-d-in-draft

 

[Sciz]

re: Todd McShay's Initial Mock - DE Melvin Ingram & CB Jonathan Banks

I hate when draftniks cite one thing Belichick looks for (versatility) while ignoring another (tall pass rushers). And unless Banks can play safety, no.

 

[patsfaninpa]

re: Todd McShay's Initial Mock - DE Melvin Ingram & CB Jonathan Banks

It looks interesting. What do you think?

Mocking up some help on D in draft - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

I like Ingram as a de in a 4-3. So, if we're sticking with that fine. I particularly think he'd be useful on the pass when he slides inside to dt on obvious passing situations. He's done that some already at South Carolina. Can take Love out and get Ingram and Mark Anderson on the field.

I haven't watched much of Banks. Color me crazy. Not writing off McCourty or Dowling. I like Arrington as a slot corner. I'd rather have a safety like Mark Barron or Kendall Wright - wr if they were available.

 

[Peachhead]

re: Todd McShay's Initial Mock - DE Melvin Ingram & CB Jonathan Banks

I hate when draftniks cite one thing Belichick looks for (versatility) while ignoring another (tall pass rushers). And unless Banks can play safety, no.

What you said X 100.

BB is a total fanatic for prototypical measurements. Especially in the first round. I really like M. Ingram's play but it would totally shock me if BB even considers him for a microsecond. Even if his intangibles and college production were stellar.

And if BB drafts another CB (to play CB) in the 1st or 2nd I'll scream.

 

[patsinthesnow]

re: Todd McShay's Initial Mock - DE Melvin Ingram & CB Jonathan Banks

If Blackmon fell to #9 , that would be very tempting to pull the trigger for him.

Trade value wise, the two 1sts would pretty much do it.

 

[Mark Morse]

re: Todd McShay's Initial Mock - DE Melvin Ingram & CB Jonathan Banks

If Blackmon fell to #9 , that would be very tempting to pull the trigger for him.

Trade value wise, the two 1sts would pretty much do it.

Not a chance ... two low round firsts don't equal a number 9 overall with the new rookie salary scale in place.

The Pats are better off keeping both picks, getting them into camp on time. Plenty of good players (without the crappy entitlement attitudes that high picks have) will be available late. Perhaps they play harder with a chip on their shoulders for getting drafted so late.

 

[patsfaninpa]

re: Todd McShay's Initial Mock - DE Melvin Ingram & CB Jonathan Banks

If Blackmon fell to #9 , that would be very tempting to pull the trigger for him.

Trade value wise, the two 1sts would pretty much do it.

We're on pace to score 500 points two consecutive seasons. Our defense sucks. How does trading both firsts for a wr help our team?

 

[VrabelJr]

re: Todd McShay's Initial Mock - DE Melvin Ingram & CB Jonathan Banks

This mock draft is terrible. There's absolutely no way we draft either of these players in the 1st and probably not at all. Ingram is not a BB type OLB and Banks is not of need nor of good enough value for us to take at that position.

We need a game wrecking 5 tech 3-4 DE to fill the void Seymour left. Jerel Worthy, Quinton Coples (probably have to move up to grab him), Jared Crick, Devon Still, etc. are who we need to be looking at with one of these picks. If we land the right 3-4 DE we don't even need to take an OLB until the late 2nd or early 3rd.

 

[Patriot Missile]

re: Todd McShay's Initial Mock - DE Melvin Ingram & CB Jonathan Banks

This mock draft is terrible. There's absolutely no way we draft either of these players in the 1st and probably not at all. Ingram is not a BB type OLB and Banks is not of need nor of good enough value for us to take at that position.

We need a game wrecking 5 tech 3-4 DE to fill the void Seymour left. Jerel Worthy, Quinton Coples (probably have to move up to grab him), Jared Crick, Devon Still, etc. are who we need to be looking at with one of these picks. If we land the right 3-4 DE we don't even need to take an OLB until the late 2nd or early 3rd.

Problem is there isn't a sure fire one in this draft that sticks out like a sore thumb.

 

[State]

re: Todd McShay's Initial Mock - DE Melvin Ingram & CB Jonathan Banks

This mock draft is terrible. There's absolutely no way we draft either of these players in the 1st and probably not at all. Ingram is not a BB type OLB and Banks is not of need nor of good enough value for us to take at that position.

We need a game wrecking 5 tech 3-4 DE to fill the void Seymour left. Jerel Worthy, Quinton Coples (probably have to move up to grab him), Jared Crick, Devon Still, etc. are who we need to be looking at with one of these picks. If we land the right 3-4 DE we don't even need to take an OLB until the late 2nd or early 3rd.

I've been a close observer of Jerel Worthy the past three years. He's an explosive widebody, but he may be generously listed at 6'3". Not the ideal height for a five technique DE.

Worthy plays almost exclusively in a 4-3 defense,too, for URI product Pat Narduzzi's number five ranked defense.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

re: Todd McShay's Initial Mock - DE Melvin Ingram & CB Jonathan Banks

We're on pace to score 500 points two consecutive seasons. Our defense sucks. How does trading both firsts for a wr help our team?

The best defense is a good offense, or so the saying goes.

Not saying I buy that (I don't think it's worth using both firsts, although I wouldn't be opposed to a front 7 player with one first and a WR with the other), merely saying that some folks might argue that making this O even stronger would mask whatever deficiencies remain on D.

 

[MaineMan]

re: Todd McShay's Initial Mock - DE Melvin Ingram & CB Jonathan Banks

The best defense is a good offense, or so the saying goes.

Not saying I buy that (I don't think it's worth using both firsts, although I wouldn't be opposed to a front 7 player with one first and a WR with the other), merely saying that some folks might argue that making this O even stronger would mask whatever deficiencies remain on D.

I'm not sure that the offense can get stronger by adding a player, especially at WR, and I don't mean that as a joke. With the TE/Welker-based, mismatch-driven passing attack, a better WR only improves it marginally. It can get stronger if the ground game improves, but that's really about it, IMO, and that will probably happen as Ridley and Vereen develop (assuming Vereen ever gets healthy).

Where adding a young player, a WR for instance, can help (IMO) is by maintaining the quality of the offense. Branch and Ocho (no, really!) are mainly accomplished outside possession guys who, when they were younger, could get deep fairly often. But that's the thing - they ain't young anymore. Picking up an apprentice to those two who has similar physical tools (and Branch-like route smarts), BEFORE they get too far gone to do the tutoring, would be great. Another TE who can play even 75% as well as Hernandez would be good insurance for the future, too.

OTOH, a defense that doesn't bend quite as much while continuing to prevent points would be very helpful.

 

[State]

re: Todd McShay's Initial Mock - DE Melvin Ingram & CB Jonathan Banks

Does anyone have ESPN Insider access and can post the entire mock online for us? Just askin'

Here it is: http://forum.walterfootball.com/showthread.php?25081-Todd-McShay-s-2012-NFL-Mock-Draft-Dec-22

 

[State]

re: Todd McShay's Initial Mock - DE Melvin Ingram & CB Jonathan Banks

Where adding a young player, a WR for instance, can help (IMO) is by maintaining the quality of the offense. Branch and Ocho (no, really!) are mainly accomplished outside possession guys who, when they were younger, could get deep fairly often. But that's the thing - they ain't young anymore. Picking up an apprentice to those two who has similar physical tools (and Branch-like route smarts), BEFORE they get too far gone to do the tutoring, would be great. Another TE who can play even 75% as well as Hernandez would be good insurance for the future, too.

OTOH, a defense that doesn't bend quite as much while continuing to prevent points would be very helpful.

Branch and Welker are a year or two from the time age pushes them down into OchoStinko play. I think the amazing Welker will see his play very suddenly diminish in a year or two. don't forget both branch and welker have had major knee surguries.

There's no way blackmon drops to nine. He's got brandon marshall written all over him without the mental disorder.

 

[Stilla]

re: Todd McShay's Initial Mock - DE Melvin Ingram & CB Jonathan Banks

This mock draft is terrible. There's absolutely no way we draft either of these players in the 1st and probably not at all. Ingram is not a BB type OLB and Banks is not of need nor of good enough value for us to take at that position.

We need a game wrecking 5 tech 3-4 DE to fill the void Seymour left. Jerel Worthy, Quinton Coples (probably have to move up to grab him), Jared Crick, Devon Still, etc. are who we need to be looking at with one of these picks. If we land the right 3-4 DE we don't even need to take an OLB until the late 2nd or early 3rd.

I would be excited if we got Jared Crick, he is a manimal and has a good head.

 

[patsinthesnow]

re: Todd McShay's Initial Mock - DE Melvin Ingram & CB Jonathan Banks

merely saying that some folks might argue that making this O even stronger would mask whatever deficiencies remain on D.

This is pretty much what I was going with the Blackmon thing. It would make our offense even stronger.

The Pats D (draft wise) baffles me sometimes because games like Sunday show me that this team is just 2 things away from having a good defense (gasp!)

1) Mccourty pull his head out of his rear (hopefully)

2) A good safety next to Chung instead of starting Brown/Ihedigbo/Moore/Slater/Ventrone,etc.

I mean, do we need a whole lot, or a trade up for 1 stud? I like what i see from Fletcher and Deaderick/Love, where does that leave us, safety and CB? Next year we could be very strong at CB with Arrington/Mccourty/Dowling, so drafting a CB high would be odd.

This team just needs a great safety, but is there one in the draft?

 

[PatriotDynasty_12]

re: Todd McShay's Initial Mock - DE Melvin Ingram & CB Jonathan Banks

Branch and Welker are a year or two from the time age pushes them down into OchoStinko play. I think the amazing Welker will see his play very suddenly diminish in a year or two. don't forget both branch and welker have had major knee surguries.

There's no way blackmon drops to nine. He's got brandon marshall written all over him without the mental disorder.

Honestly, what are you basing your hunch on? Welker came back quick for how serious his injury was and hasn't seemed to lost a step. The guy works real hard to keep himself in top shape.

 

[State]

re: Todd McShay's Initial Mock - DE Melvin Ingram & CB Jonathan Banks

What you say is true.

To a lesser extent I think Chad is a hard worker, too.

Father Time has a way of making us all dust.

I just have the expectation that Welker's fall from athletic grace will be sudden, partially because he's getting every jot and tittle out of his body that he can. His will power, really the most important variable in the universe, is tremendous.

But projecting a couple of years into the future, that's all.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

re: Todd McShay's Initial Mock - DE Melvin Ingram & CB Jonathan Banks

I've been a close observer of Jerel Worthy the past three years. He's an explosive widebody, but he may be generously listed at 6'3". Not the ideal height for a five technique DE.

Worthy plays almost exclusively in a 4-3 defense,too, for URI product Pat Narduzzi's number five ranked defense.

I like Worthy but only in a 1 gap 43 defense. Against Wisconsin (first game) he was 2 gapping a lot in the 1st qtr and wasn't much of an impact. Then MSU moved to a 1 gap attacking defense in the 2nd qtr and he was awesome. Made few tackles for losses and set up a safety (If I recall correctly).