Samuel is gone in FA ...

[JR4]

... just a gut feeling and reading stuff like this.

Here it is from the horse's mouth:


Kraft also touched on his feelings on first-round draft picks, saying: "The first five to eight picks are noneconomical. The sweet spot is mid to late first round, where you get players and the pay is market-friendly. We wanted to keep Adam [Vinatieri] and Deion [Branch]. But if you make bad decisions, you can’t bury your errors. You have to balance that with a sense of loyalty to your players and your emotions.”


http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/


That is their philosophy in a nutshell. If Samuel wants too much then
he'll step over the
"sense of loyalty to your players and your emotions" line and he won't be back.

I just don't feel good about his return. I hope I'm wrong, big time,
but Samuel is saying stuff like Deion did.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I have some thoughts on this topic but I think I'm going to save my offseason discussion until the offseason.

Asante's with us right now, in the playoffs, hopefully for another Super Bowl run. That's all I really care about right now.

 

[lobster]

Bob Kraft didn't say anything about Samuel's contract negotiations. He is merely pointing out that the Pat's value the Seahawks pick very highly, and that's perhaps a subtle hint to both Graham's and Asante's agents.

 

[Pats726]

I just don't feel good about his return. I hope I'm wrong, big time,
but Samuel is saying stuff like Deion did.

Deion never got to his last year...so there is no comparing them...

 

[BelichickFan]

It's basically irrelevant. He now gets a market value contract. Whether we buy Samuel or anyone else at market value doesn't really matter. The key is to draft well and get 4-5 years from players below market.

Example :

Seymour is on his second contract, his cap hit is about $6M.
Wilfork and Warren are on their first contracts, their cap hit COMBINED is just over $4M.

Another example : Samuel's cap hit is $840K. GREAT VALUE. Next year it'll be $5+M. Market value.

Once a player hits his second contract and gets market value, it's irrelevant whether we re-sign them or sign someone else.

 

[JR4]

Bob Kraft didn't say anything about Samuel's contract negotiations. He is merely pointing out that the Pat's value the Seahawks pick very highly, and that's perhaps a subtle hint to both Graham's and Asante's agents.

True ... but you read between the lines. It is significant that he is talking
about players that supposedly crossed that line and the draft and
being aware that contracts that are coming up.
If you were Samuel and read that ... might you not think Kraft is saying
very definitively that there is a line and PATs won't cross it.

 

[BradyisGod]

True ... but you read between the lines. It is significant that he is talking
about players that supposedly crossed that line and the draft and
being aware that contracts that are coming up.
If you were Samuel and read that ... might you not think Kraft is saying
very definitively that there is a line and PATs won't cross it.

And if Asante had half a brain he would know that this is how the organization has been run for 5 years. Stop trying to make a story out of nothing. Not everything people say is always dual-meaning.

Bob Kraft saying this is not significant at all. This is "the sky is blue" type of information.

 

[FortLauderdaleBroncosFan]

denver will sign him to replace D-Will.. god bless his soul

 

[Remix 6]

denver will sign him to replace D-Will.. god bless his soul

or Washington - snyder is a spender

or Jets or Browns - coach-player relationship

or any team that wants/needs a CB...

 

[Mike the Brit]

The key is to draft well and get 4-5 years from players below market.

Once a player hits his second contract and gets market value, it's irrelevant whether we re-sign them or sign someone else.

I used to think that but now I fundamentally disagree. I now think that trying to leverage value by maximising the time that players play under rookie contracts builds resentment which hurts the team in the long run.

A better strategy, I believe, is to extend players early, paying good but not huge amounts of money. What any player really wants is a payday that is good enough for them not to have to worry about money should their career end suddenly. After that, the difference between $10 and $15 million isn't that important.

Here is a story by Len Pasquarelli that shows a team taking this approach. My opinion is that, after the last off-season, the Patriots ought to be fundamentally re-appraising the way that they handle rookie contracts:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2714373
Herremans is fourth Eagle from '05 draft to land deal

By Len Pasquarelli
ESPN.com






Continuing to lock up their young offensive linemen with long-term deals, the Philadelphia Eagles on Saturday reached agreement with starting left guard Todd Herremans on a five-year contract extension.

[SIZE=-2]Herremans[/SIZE]
The deal is worth $16 million to $17 million and includes a $5 million signing bonus. Herremans signed the extension Saturday, which is the NFL deadline for teams to sign players to new contracts and be able to allocate remaining 2006 salary cap space to do so. Philadelphia is typically proactive in reaching early extensions with players they believe are key to their future and Herremans, only a second-year pro, is considered one of the team's young veterans around whom the Eagles will build.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

why do people create threads that were already established like a day ago?

 

[BelichickFan]

I used to think that but now I fundamentally disagree. I now think that trying to leverage value by maximising the time that players play under rookie contracts builds resentment which hurts the team in the long run.

A better strategy, I believe, is to extend players early, paying good but not huge amounts of money. What any player really wants is a payday that is good enough for them not to have to worry about money should their career end suddenly. After that, the difference between $10 and $15 million isn't that important.

Nah, they always see their peers getting more and then they want more. Extend a guy early ? Eventually his contract will look small and he'll hold out.

 

[fgssand]

Thanks for posting the article.......much appreciated.

I do think the Samuel tie in was a reach however.

I did find BB / SP comments flattering and honest from Kraft - why not, it is what it is and those two are on the verge of being the best ever.

I also think my statement above will keep them here a little while longer. Five superbowls would do it IMHO...

Can anybody find any player move or cap move or reason at all that would indicate anything contrary to their hanging around for a while?? It just seems to me, with all the moves they have made and are making, with so many players under contract for 2-4 years, with 12 or so draft choices including two # 1's, with very few free agents next year and with Tom Brady & Richard Seymour securely tied up for a long time they are setting the table for many more years to come.

Why would either of them leave now?? Maybe Pioli if he wants to be the #1 guy, but he could have already had that and said no - what has changed??

I just think they are in this for the long haul and things could not be any brighter for fans of New England my friends.

 

[jmt57]

Somebody will see all those interceptions and throw a ton of money at him.

You can make an argument that CB is the most important position on the field these days.

 

[mgcolby]

Someone will overpay for a CB that may or may not catch the give me INT's and miss tackles because he wants to make the highlight reels. Not to mention the passes given up because he was either peeking into the backfield or because he went for the pick and missed.

Have a good career Asante.

 

[mgcolby]

Somebody will see all those interceptions and throw a ton of money at him.

You can make an argument that CB is the most important position on the field these days.

No you can't.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Like I said before ... we have a great coach and a great QB. We have a great DL and a possible great RB. If we spend to near the cap who is wearing the uniform is irrelevant ... Samuels $$$ would be spent on another position(s) ... draft picks ... nd we keep rolling.

No big emotion from mr anymore on lost FA's.

Just a slight bit of emotion for when Warren is up ... we need to keep him and Wifork even if we have to pay market value.

 

[shakadave]

I used to think that but now I fundamentally disagree. I now think that trying to leverage value by maximising the time that players play under rookie contracts builds resentment which hurts the team in the long run.

A better strategy, I believe, is to extend players early, paying good but not huge amounts of money. What any player really wants is a payday that is good enough for them not to have to worry about money should their career end suddenly. After that, the difference between $10 and $15 million isn't that important.

Very nicely said. I agree.

 

[rookBoston]

... just a gut feeling and reading stuff like this.

Here it is from the horse's mouth:


Kraft also touched on his feelings on first-round draft picks, saying: "The first five to eight picks are noneconomical. The sweet spot is mid to late first round, where you get players and the pay is market-friendly. We wanted to keep Adam [Vinatieri] and Deion [Branch]. But if you make bad decisions, you can’t bury your errors. You have to balance that with a sense of loyalty to your players and your emotions.”


http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/


That is their philosophy in a nutshell. If Samuel wants too much then
he'll step over the
"sense of loyalty to your players and your emotions" line and he won't be back.

I just don't feel good about his return. I hope I'm wrong, big time,
but Samuel is saying stuff like Deion did.

Agree that's the philosophy, but Asante Samuel is not a player the calibre of a Ty Law, Adam Vinatieri or Deon Branch.

He'll attract FA attention on par with what David Givens got. I have no doubt he'll try for a pay day, but I dont think the Pats will be too far off from the open market value.

 

[DarrylS]

Like I said before ... we have a great coach and a great QB. We have a great DL and a possible great RB. If we spend to near the cap who is wearing the uniform is irrelevant ... Samuels $$$ would be spent on another position(s) ... draft picks ... nd we keep rolling.

No big emotion from mr anymore on lost FA's.

Just a slight bit of emotion for when Warren is up ... we need to keep him and Wifork even if we have to pay market value.

The Patriot way, my only hope is that they cut their losses early, do not let it hang on to TC or the beginning of the season.. make their offer if it is rejected move on an plan for the contingencies. This team is built in the trenches, that is our strength now and in the future.