I'm tired of this Colts are loaded with talent myth

[Rob0729]

All I have heard this week is with this talent on the Colts' roster, they should be at least .500 if they had a decent QB. I look at that team and I think they have no more than 3-4 wins at most.

I still maintain that Peyton Manning's legacy dodged a huge bullet this season with him out because even with a healthy Manning, they weren't going to be better than .500. With Manning last year, they were 10-6 and they had the AFC West to walk over rather than the AFC North this year.

Let's look at the supposive talent:

Defense

Dwight Freeney - Yes, an elite DE
Robert Mathis - A very good DE
Pat Angerer - Gets padded stats because the Colts' defense is on the field most of the game
Gary Brackett - Injury prone and overrated. Hasn't been good since 2007
Antonine Bethea - Very good safety

So they have three of eleven defensive starters that are good.

Offense

Reggie Wayne - Elite WR
Austin Collie - Injury prone and overrated (decent back up, but not a starter)
Pierre Garcon - Very streaky (half of his yards and all of his TDs this year came in two games)
Dallas Clark - A very good TE
Jeff Saturday - Old and overrated
Joseph Addai - Could be a great 3rd down back, totally miscast as a lead back and still living off his reputation of his rookie season
Donald Brown - Total bust who's career stats for yards and TDs are pretty much what BJGE gave the Pats last season
Ryan Diem - Overrated

So they have probably 3-4 players on offense any good

The fact of the matter is if you get past all the names, this is a bad team and their record isn't much worse than the talent they actually had. Manning hid a lot of warts last year with an easy schedule. I think with a significantly tougher schedule this year from last year (their own division is more competitive this year and the AFC North is the best division in football) even Manning couldn't hide the warts this year. This team has been living on a cake division, reputations, and Manning's arm for the last few years. Polian has allowed the talent to get old or leave while not replacing the pieces over the last few years.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

You named 7 or so very good players. How many very good players did the winless Lions or the winless Tampa Bay Bucs have?

A lot less than that.

This is not a good team, but it isn't historically bad, talent-wise. Rather it relies on tanking, mostly by woeful coaching with a quitter attitude to achieve its "goals" that it set it sights on once Manning was out.

If Bill were made coach and GM of them last offseason, or any other top coach & GM, they wouldn't be 0-11. Maybe 5-6, but not 0-11.

 

[strngplyr]

7-8 very good/elite players is more than quite a few teams probably.

Who do the Cardinals have? Washington? Tampa? Carolina? Minnesota? Hell, SF may have one of the least known defenses and they are doing a fantastic job. Same can be said for Houston.

The Colts do have a decent roster, but they have no depth and they don't have a coach.

I don't even think the Colts are the most under-performing team in the league for all of their stars, either. Look at the Chargers. The Colts are kind of similar to the Eagles this year, they have a lot of good players, but they aren't being coached properly, or at all. Losing your trigger-man hurts, but they should not be 0-11, that said, even with PM I think they'd have a .500 season at best.

 

[Rob0729]

You named 7 or so very good players. How many very good players did the winless Lions or the winless Tampa Bay Bucs have?

A lot less than that.

This is not a good team, but it isn't historically bad, talent-wise. Rather it relies on tanking, mostly by woeful coaching with a quitter attitude to achieve its "goals" that it set it sights on once Manning was out.

If Bill were made coach and GM of them last offseason, or any other top coach & GM, they wouldn't be 0-11. Maybe 5-6, but not 0-11.

I said with a decent QB would give them 3-4 wins. If they had say a Matt Ryan, they might be 3-8 right now. They aren't as bad as the 0-16 Lions, but they are a bad team with or without a decent QB. A Manning might get them to .500.

 

[Rob0729]

7-8 very good/elite players is more than quite a few teams probably.

Who do the Cardinals have? Washington? Tampa? Carolina? Minnesota? Hell, SF may have one of the least known defenses and they are doing a fantastic job. Same can be said for Houston.

The Colts do have a decent roster, but they have no depth and they don't have a coach.

I don't even think the Colts are the most under-performing team in the league for all of their stars, either. Look at the Chargers. The Colts are kind of similar to the Eagles this year, they have a lot of good players, but they aren't being coached properly, or at all. Losing your trigger-man hurts, but they should not be 0-11, that said, even with PM I think they'd have a .500 season at best.

I said they 7-8 good players not very good and elite. Some of the players are very good or elite. Most of the talent is below average.

 

[Uncle Rico]

I was just out-and-about and had Holley and Ordway on the radio; they were going on a bit too much about Valentine, so I spent the last two minutes over at 98.5, see what those two ... guys ... were up to. Felger was actually on about how tanking the season will make the Colts so much better than the Patriots, long term, because they're restocking a team that's so loaded with talent. I mean, please. I'm glad you created this thread because I wanted to mention this without giving that show its own thread.

Turning it away from media sewage and back to the team: For Sunday, yeah, you have to respect some of the players the Colts have. Thing is that a lot of their best players are getting up there in years. Really, any players they add to develop in the next draft will have to basically be groomed to replace — not supplement — a lot of these guys. They also might want to consider a philosophical shift, so they're not so dependent on one player and aspect (ie Manning passing) of the game.

 

[BradyBranch39]

I said with a decent QB would give them 3-4 wins. If they had say a Matt Ryan, they might be 3-8 right now. They aren't as bad as the 0-16 Lions, but they are a bad team with or without a decent QB. A Manning might get them to .500.

I say they'd be 5-6 or 6-5 with Ryan OR Manning---with a fluke win/loss game being the difference.

 

[sbpatfan]

All of their elite talent is over the hill, and their FO did an absolutely horrible job trying to replace it.

 

[PATSNUTme]

I don't know who said the Colts are "loaded" with talent. They do have enough good players to be far better than 0-11. They have enough good players to beat the Patriots if the Patriots are not sharp and don't play with intensity.

They did lose to the Steelers by 3 points, which shows that they can be competitive if they play well as a team.

 

[ausbacker]

Are you planning on offering your subjective opinion as to the other 31 teams and how many good to very good players they have on their rosters as a point of comparison?

 

[Sfpat]

I don't know who said the Colts are "loaded" with talent. They do have enough good players to be far better than 0-11. They have enough good players to beat the Patriots if the Patriots are not sharp and don't play with intensity.

They did lose to the Steelers by 3 points, which shows that they can be competitive if they play well as a team.

I believe that Steelers game was more about the Steelers not being interested and trying to lose, more so than the Colts playing well enough to win.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

The team mailed it in around week 5 or 6. Before that they were competitive in a number or games and probably could've been around .500 with a decent QB. After that point, you never know how things could have played out if they didn't quit. Football is a game of inches and a game of momentum, so you never truly know if they really are this bad. All we know is they mailed it in after a horrible start.

Plus QB is the single most important position on the team. If you aren't prepared to replace a guy like Manning one injury CAN cripple you. I think this year proves that Indy isn't on the Patriots level as far as how to run a franchise, but still there are few GM's I'd take over Polian.

Besides I never heard anybody say they are 'loaded with talent'. Even with Manning they're a middle of the pack team at best with a decent shot at making the playoffs.

 

[E1Downey]

I believe that Steelers game was more about the Steelers not being interested and trying to lose, more so than the Colts playing well enough to win.

Wait a sec, why would the steelers be trying to lose?

EDIT: sorry did you mean they were simply playing not to lose, like just a half assed game? Rather than giving it their all for the win? Sorry was confused for a sec....

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Even with Manning i still see the colts with only 5 wins

 

[E1Downey]

The team mailed it in around week 5 or 6. Before that they were competitive in a number or games and probably could've been around .500 with a decent QB. After that point, you never know how things could have played out if they didn't quit. Football is a game of inches and a game of momentum, so you never truly know if they really are this bad. All we know is they mailed it in after a horrible start.

Yes, this is precisely how I feel on the subject of this embarrassment of a season for Indy. I do think they were trying hard in the beginning but, a horrid start shattered their confidence and hopes for the season so, like you said, eh mailed it in.

I don't think bringing in Collins helped morale all that much either. I think that perhaps a few more players other than just Wayne weren't thrilled with that whole debacle.

 

[The_Riddler]

Another one gets fooled.

Don't you realise that this football team did not want to win football games this year. Flat out, did not want to win football games! Just like Tony Mazz said today which was that there should be full investigation into the Colts games and every game.

I brought this up after week 5 when I saw shady things going on. Half time leads consistenly evaporating was the first red flag, then I started sniffing into their games and got confirmation.

This football team has plenty of talent, listen, they didn't want to win football games this year, it's really that simple. People want to assume that Polian didn't draft good players etc. That's a cop out. There's plenty of talent on that team that was IR'd purposely and are not giving their all.

Drop the no talent argument.

 

[strngplyr]

Another one gets fooled.

Don't you realise that this football team did not want to win football games this year. Flat out, did not want to win football games! Just like Tony Mazz said today which was that there should be full investigation into the Colts games and every game.

I brought this up after week 5 when I saw shady things going on. Half time leads consistenly evaporating was the first red flag, then I started sniffing into their games and got confirmation.

This football team has plenty of talent, listen, they didn't want to win football games this year, it's really that simple. People want to assume that Polian didn't draft good players etc. That's a cop out. There's plenty of talent on that team that was IR'd purposely and are not giving their all.

Drop the no talent argument.

Our 2009 team blew plenty of halftime leads if I remember correctly.

 

[BradyFTW!]

The Colts do have some very good players. That's not the problem. The problem is that they're built in a very one dimensional way (they can only play with the lead) and they have pretty much no depth, as well as no young talent in the pipeline to replace all of the impending FAs.

 

[RayClay]

They were always half great players, half scrubs. Peyton had receivers, a line and an offense good enough to put up lots of points. The defense dared you to run and keep up points wise. if you passed, they pressured all out, not worrying about mistakes.

A few years ago, maybe their championship year?) denver ran through them like tissue, so they schemed and got a Tampa DE to patch up.

Basically, they got by with a lot of scrubs by forcing the opposition to pass and pressuring.

Without Manning, they're half a team with the same players.

 

[Patsfan1102]

All I have heard this week is with this talent on the Colts' roster, they should be at least .500 if they had a decent QB. I look at that team and I think they have no more than 3-4 wins at most.

I still maintain that Peyton Manning's legacy dodged a huge bullet this season with him out because even with a healthy Manning, they weren't going to be better than .500. With Manning last year, they were 10-6 and they had the AFC West to walk over rather than the AFC North this year.

Let's look at the supposive talent:

Defense

Dwight Freeney - Yes, an elite DE
Robert Mathis - A very good DE
Pat Angerer - Gets padded stats because the Colts' defense is on the field most of the game
Gary Brackett - Injury prone and overrated. Hasn't been good since 2007
Antonine Bethea - Very good safety

So they have three of eleven defensive starters that are good.

Offense

Reggie Wayne - Elite WR
Austin Collie - Injury prone and overrated (decent back up, but not a starter)
Pierre Garcon - Very streaky (half of his yards and all of his TDs this year came in two games)
Dallas Clark - A very good TE
Jeff Saturday - Old and overrated
Joseph Addai - Could be a great 3rd down back, totally miscast as a lead back and still living off his reputation of his rookie season
Donald Brown - Total bust who's career stats for yards and TDs are pretty much what BJGE gave the Pats last season
Ryan Diem - Overrated

So they have probably 3-4 players on offense any good

The fact of the matter is if you get past all the names, this is a bad team and their record isn't much worse than the talent they actually had. Manning hid a lot of warts last year with an easy schedule. I think with a significantly tougher schedule this year from last year (their own division is more competitive this year and the AFC North is the best division in football) even Manning couldn't hide the warts this year. This team has been living on a cake division, reputations, and Manning's arm for the last few years. Polian has allowed the talent to get old or leave while not replacing the pieces over the last few years.

Let me fix it for you.

Wayne- ELITE
Garcon- Drops passes but one of the most elusive wr's in the game
Collie- One of the best slot recievers in the league....sucks this year because horrible qb's cant use slot recievers.. Collie is better than Garcon with a solid QB
Blair White- good enough to be playin but nothing above good
Jeff Saturday- Old but still one the best C's
Dallas Clark- Elite pass catching tight end that is getting older
Tamme- great pass catching TE
Joseph Addai- Top 20 RB in the league....he'd be an amazing 3rd down back but is an ABV AVG STARTING RB
Brown- maybe the best RB on the team!!!! He hasn't gotten oppurtunities but when he has he has shown he has the skills to be a starting rb.
Delone Carter- looking solid for a rookie
Everyone says their o-line worst in the league every year...it is one of the worst but nowhere close to the worst

Freeney- ELITE HOF
Mathis- HOF underrated because everyone thinks Freeney makes him.
Angerer- extremely solid LB but yes stats are padded
Brackett- Colt's Bruschi
Bethea- One of the best safeties in the game
Powers- Underrated future probowler
Nevis- Solid rookie

With an OK QB this team is .500 or atleast 5-6 easily