Bedard: Haynesworth a lost cause, but Ocho isnt

[RIpats88]

Haynesworth a lost cause in New England - The Boston Globe

pretty good article by bedard here and pretty much my sentiments from the Giants game....it looks like Ocho is close to getting in sync with brady and its something that we desperately need as he is our only receiver(besides Welker) that can get open in man to man coverage...something he was doing quite often in the Giants game.

like I said in a thread I started we need either Price or Ocho to get in sync with brady to fix this pass offense because they can get open vs man coverage and play the sidelines..something Branch cant do. our offense is too focused in the middle of the field right now, hence all the tipped balls

 

[fnordcircle]

The problem I have with all the **** people give Ocho is there is a certain venom attached to it like Ocho is a bad guy.

We've heard nothing and seen nothing other than the fact that Ocho works as hard as anyone else. That's the big difference between him and Haynesworth.

Ultimately maybe he's not a good fit but the guy is trying and he's not making a lot of noise about how low his stats and reps are.

Every game increases the odds he's done here, granted, but I don't think it's fair when people lump him together with Haynesworth. Especially because Haynesworth made more of an impact when he was on the field but apparently had other issues based on what has come out the last couple days.

 

[RIpats88]

ive been very critical of Ochocinco the past few weeks...i was in favor of ending the experiment and moving on to Price or an outside option

but I think the Giants game showed that he can be a factor in the receiving game if he/brady get on the same page. and honestly 3 of those balls were uncatchable.

 

[DefenseRules]

I don't mind Ocho. At least he's trying. But I have a problem with a player who doesn't try and doesn't care. Haynesworth did not care, and he didn't try very hard either. To just show no effort on that 10 yard run by Jacobs is disgusting. It's not the first game that I've seen that from him either. But I thought, well he's working on his conditioning, he's not in game shape yet etc. etc. Sometimes a player is what he is. Haynesworth can be a great player when he wants to. The problem is he doesn't want to all the time.
I can just imagine the outcry if he had stayed long enough to play like that in a playoff game, and give up a big play at a critical point in the game. If the players around him can't rely on him to do "his job", what is the point of keeping him around?

 

[FalconHeavy]

ocho was wide open along with welker for a few plays but Brady either didn't have time to throw or was not even looking at his direction

 

[JackBauer]

Thanks for posting this article. I thought this bit was interesting:

Brady wasn’t under nearly as much of a rush (12 pressures) as Eli Manning (21).

 

[Rob0729]

I put much of the blame on Ocho not catching a ball this Sunday on Brady. Ocho should have had three or four catches, one for a TD if Brady wasn't so off. I might have said that it was Ocho out of place, but Brady was off with a lot of receivers and one pass to a wide open Ocho was a yard out of bounds and the pass to the end zone where Ocho was wide open was in a spot where it would have been impossible for Ocho to get to.

I was impressed with Ocho this past Sunday. He was open a lot even when Brady wasn't looking in his direction. I think it was a case of Brady being off this past weekend. Hopefully, he won't be and they can connect a lot Sunday night.

 

[Rob0729]

Thanks for posting this article. I thought this bit was interesting:

Yeah, the funny thing is listening to the radio the last few days, they have been saying the Pats generated no pass rush on Sunday which clearly wasn't the case. They generated no sacks, but they did pressure Manning a lot.

 

[FalconHeavy]

Thanks for posting this article. I thought this bit was interesting:

Quote:
Brady wasn’t under nearly as much of a rush (12 pressures) as Eli Manning (21).

huh, so much to the notion that Brady was under pressure and was not able to throw to his receivers

 

[DefenseRules]

huh, so much to the notion that Brady was under pressure and was not able to throw to his receivers

I am the biggest Brady fan around. But my boy SUCKED on Sunday! Period. He needs to go check himself.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Thanks for sharing that article. After reading that and processing the information that is coming out about Haynesworth, I agree. AH was dogging it and deserved to be cut. Ocho has kept his mouth shut and has kept working at his game and he loves football. His improved play also offers promise that he will be a factor sooner rather than later.

Just a few miscues here and there are the difference sometimes. He needs to keep working on his game and getting on the same page with Brady. Ocho's abilities to create separation and run different routes than Branch is something this offense can really use.

"It is now clear that Deion Branch is a threat only on underneath patterns on the route tree (there are 10 total, from the slant to the fly). Ochocinco can give the Patriots the 8 (post), 7 (corner), and the 5 and 6 (curl in and out). That’s currently missing in this offense."

Haynesworth a lost cause in New England - The Boston Globe

pretty good article by bedard here and pretty much my sentiments from the Giants game....it looks like Ocho is close to getting in sync with brady and its something that we desperately need as he is our only receiver(besides Welker) that can get open in man to man coverage...something he was doing quite often in the Giants game.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

But the pressure Manning was under was coming at a price... While the pressure Brady was under was not since it was coming from rushing 4 or less while leaving 7 defenders in coverage against fewer targets...

Somewhere in Reiss' recent analysis I saw mention of the fact that the OL performance in the last 3 games was increasingly lacking with the number of sacks, hurries, hits and penalties dramatically on the upswing...

As for Ocho, I don't doubt he's trying. I just doubt he is capable of assimilating and that's a doubt I had prior to the signing. As was the case with Moss, the effort Brady and his teamates make to try and accommodate or assimilate these guys phyche's or talents is in and of itself a drain on their mental resources...which can be better spent on fine tuning their own game. Like Tedy said, every target directed at Ocho is a target not directed at a proven playmaker... You only get so many target opportunities in a game, you get less if you aren't able to move the chains consistently and build a rhythm. Brady's reads are based on a lot more than a receiver appearing to be wide open. They are based on his ability to trust that the receiver will see what he sees and be where he should be and fight if needbe to get sufficient seperation and catch the damn ball. Ocho is like a lot of talents we've tried to assimilate here who lack the capacity to process myriad information seemlessly on the fly. I can't remember any of them suddenly flipping the switch and figuring it all out. Sometimes they make plays, most times they don't...and that inconsistency is there ultimate undoing here. Price was obviously poised to get his shot at the 3rd WR slot last week per BOB, but his inability to get on the field due to injury once again resulted in Ocho even being on the field against the Giants...by default.

If that continues to be the case, I don't doubt at some point Chad and Brady will be able to make some plays against the little sisters of the poor. Isn't really going to matter though because we won't face them come January...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I put much of the blame on Ocho not catching a ball this Sunday on Brady. Ocho should have had three or four catches, one for a TD if Brady wasn't so off. I might have said that it was Ocho out of place, but Brady was off with a lot of receivers and one pass to a wide open Ocho was a yard out of bounds and the pass to the end zone where Ocho was wide open was in a spot where it would have been impossible for Ocho to get to. I was impressed with Ocho this past Sunday. He was open a lot even when Brady wasn't looking in his direction. I think it was a case of Brady being off this past weekend. Hopefully, he won't be and they can connect a lot Sunday night.

I put about as much stock in your assessment of Ocho as I did in your assessment of Haynesworth...

 

[RIpats88]

MoLewisrocks.....the whole "trust" thing doesnt work as a long term option in football....if you key on a couple of players all the time defenses quickly will figure that out...hence the interception as Brady tried to force the ball to Gronk when he was tightly covered...you HAVE to throw to the open man even if you dont "trust him" its just the better option % wise

ocho was getting open with regularity..We can only hope it was a start of more to come and he will start to produce more. because another productive WR on this roster is just what the pass offense needs

I know it pains you hard to admit it...but Brady was horrible on Sunday. look I think brady is the best QB..but it doesnt hurt to admit when he plays a bad game. hes not perfect all the time

 

[skspikex2]

Trust is good but I highly doubt in 2006 that Brady trust his wrs.

 

[farouche]

"It is now clear that Deion Branch is a threat only on underneath patterns on the route tree (there are 10 total, from the slant to the fly). Ochocinco can give the Patriots the 8 (post), 7 (corner), and the 5 and 6 (curl in and out). That’s currently missing in this offense."

Ocho runs the best curl and comeback routes in football, period, and works the sideline at an elite level. He won't willing go over the middle anymore, but that shouldn't be an issue with Welker here. I must admit, however, I haven't seen him run an effective post or a corner route in a long time.

 

[fnordcircle]

I put about as much stock in your assessment of Ocho as I did in your assessment of Haynesworth...

How was anyone to know about the stuff that has come out in the last few days about team mates being down on Albert?

By and large if you watched Albert this year he was consistently disrupting plays when he was out there. You can't fault Rob for not having access to all the information that it would take to truly assess Haynesworth's play or his impact on the locker room.

 

[JackBauer]

But the pressure Manning was under was coming at a price... While the pressure Brady was under was not since it was coming from rushing 4 or less while leaving 7 defenders in coverage against fewer targets...

From the article:

The Patriots blitzed only six times on 45 dropbacks (13.3 percent)

 

[robbomango]

But the pressure Manning was under was coming at a price... While the pressure Brady was under was not since it was coming from rushing 4 or less while leaving 7 defenders in coverage against fewer targets...

Somewhere in Reiss' recent analysis I saw mention of the fact that the OL performance in the last 3 games was increasingly lacking with the number of sacks, hurries, hits and penalties dramatically on the upswing...

As for Ocho, I don't doubt he's trying. I just doubt he is capable of assimilating and that's a doubt I had prior to the signing. As was the case with Moss, the effort Brady and his teamates make to try and accommodate or assimilate these guys phyche's or talents is in and of itself a drain on their mental resources...which can be better spent on fine tuning their own game. Like Tedy said, every target directed at Ocho is a target not directed at a proven playmaker... You only get so many target opportunities in a game, you get less if you aren't able to move the chains consistently and build a rhythm. Brady's reads are based on a lot more than a receiver appearing to be wide open. They are based on his ability to trust that the receiver will see what he sees and be where he should be and fight if needbe to get sufficient seperation and catch the damn ball. Ocho is like a lot of talents we've tried to assimilate here who lack the capacity to process myriad information seemlessly on the fly. I can't remember any of them suddenly flipping the switch and figuring it all out. Sometimes they make plays, most times they don't...and that inconsistency is there ultimate undoing here. Price was obviously poised to get his shot at the 3rd WR slot last week per BOB, but his inability to get on the field due to injury once again resulted in Ocho even being on the field against the Giants...by default.

If that continues to be the case, I don't doubt at some point Chad and Brady will be able to make some plays against the little sisters of the poor. Isn't really going to matter though because we won't face them come January...

Spot on, that 4 man pressure is brutal, leaving 7 bodies to wreak havoc on the receiving core and cut off throwing lanes. TB was moving the ball better than Eli against a tougher D but they were both pretty much crap until the 4rth qtr. Credit to Eli as much as his smurf face irritates me he made some clutch throws when it counted for the W.

Ocho needed to go to the ball on some of those routs not the other way around. I agree with the article it Looks like he's getting it, Ocho's breakout week take 9! 5 catches OchoCinco yards 1 TD

 

[RxJock1120]

I am so glad that Ochocinco is "playing faster" and is "obviously progressing"!!! Because he hasn't caught a pass in 3 games. I would call that regression!!!