Kraft vs Belichick...Does Bob have the cajones?

[Shelterdog]

lets say for a moment that BB is not great and that BB may need to be replaced.

who is a good candidate to replace as coach and who else as a player personnel guy?

I mean I literally can not stand BB's press conferences and I don't think he's much of a person, but I don't believe there are any football minds out there that can do any better.......not unemployed ones anyway.

tell you one thing.....it'll be easy for him to clean house next offseason......

I just think he needs to upgrade the coaching staff......that would be the right move......

You essentially have to pick either your coach (say Urban Meyer: I don't think you upgrade on Belichick with a Gruden or Cowher-you have to think a little outside of the box) or your personnel guy (some assistant GM somewhere like DeCosta in Baltimore) and then let them heavily shape who else you're putting in place.

 

[Rob0729]

First, Kraft didn't become a billionaire for not having cajones. In fact, Eddie Andleman always complained that Kraft was a ruthless businessman. Granted Andleman was on the wrong side of business dealing with him for the Foxboro race track.

Second, I don't know if Kraft needs to do anything. These anti-Belichick rants come out after a loss, but I think fans are being way too spoiled and unobjective. Yes, Belichick has made blunders, but so has every coach and GM in this league. I think too many Pats fans think Super Bowls are some kind of birthright. Yes, Belichick needs to do a better job in several areas, but it isn't the disaster that people make it out to be after this loss.

 

[SoonerPatriot]

The correct question should be does he lack the intelligence.

This could also apply to you. :rocker:

 

[borg]

Another question:

What happened between draft day and today? Belichick drafted for depth in 2011, adding an extra T (Light insurance), an extra DB (Bodden/McCourty seen as starters) added backup RBs and a 3rd QB. BB treated this draft as a depth builder for a roster that appeared intact going into the lockout.

Fast forward to today.

7 DBs on the 2010 roster (6 of 7 were cut) are no longer Patriots

Sanders
Page
Meriweather

Bodden
Butler
Wheatley
Wilhite

BB drafts 1 DB....months later jettisons 6 DBs (Page contract was up I believe). What happened that BB went from a high comfort level in his secondary to an almost complete removal? How did it get so bad that BB would rather use practice squad players and crappy team castoffs? Could they all have regressed at the same time? Or was their an epidemic of bad attitudes?

 

[Rob0729]

Another question:

What happened between draft day and today? Belichick drafted for depth in 2011, adding an extra T (Light insurance), an extra DB (Bodden/McCourty seen as starters) added backup RBs and a 3rd QB. BB treated this draft as a depth builder for a roster that appeared intact going into the lockout.

Fast forward to today.

7 DBs on the 2010 roster (6 of 7 were cut) are no longer Patriots

Sanders
Page
Meriweather

Bodden
Butler
Wheatley
Wilhite

BB drafts 1 DB....months later jettisons 6 DBs (Page contract was up I believe). What happened that BB went from a high comfort level in his secondary to an almost complete removal? How did it get so bad that BB would rather use practice squad players and crappy team castoffs? Could they all have regressed at the same time? Or was their an epidemic of bad attitudes?

First, Solder was not drafted as insurance for Light. Light wasn't even on the roster until training camp. Light was insurance for Solder and if he wasn't ready to start right away at LT, not the other way around.

Second, what happened was the lockout. Belichick had no idea what kind of shape any of his players were in and whether they were dedicated to preparing for the season. Typically by draft day coaches and GMs have a good idea of what players are committed to the offseason and which ones aren't. He also would have known how guys like Bodden were recovering from their injury. The lockout screwed up a lot of player evaluation. Hence why there is so much bad football this year.

I think if there wasn't a lockout, Belichick might have gotten some of the players he let go into shape to work out for the season. He might have also been more active in free agency to replace these players. The free agency was so condensed and crazy this year, you either had to bowl many of the better free agents over or they went back to their own team with one year deals. The Pats experienced that with Goldson who decided to take an one year deal with his old team rather than a better deal with the Pats.

 

[Ring 6]

This could also apply to you. :rocker:

Right, because it would be intelligent to fire Bill Bleichick, wouldn't it?

 

[PATSNUTme]

Maybe Bobby Grier is still out there to take over the personnel decisions.

Now that I have that out of my system. I think some fans need to do some reading. Not Borges or Felger, but the books that are out there that describe the scouting system that the Patriots have in place for the draft and FA's.

BB just doesn't pull these guys out of his butt, although it seems that way to many. Now maybe the scouts have to change or the grading system needs to change, I don't know. After every season BB does evaluations of the coaches and the scouts before he even gets to players.

But there are many people who have input on players to be drafted, retained, and to be sought in FA. I'm sure Bob Kraft is kept posted on all of this and also has his opinions known.

 

[Ring 6]

This could also apply to you. :rocker:

Actually it doesnt because I do not lack the intelligence that would result in firing Bill Belichick.

 

[borg]

First, Solder was not drafted as insurance for Light. Light wasn't even on the roster until training camp. Light was insurance for Solder and if he wasn't ready to start right away at LT, not the other way around.

Second, what happened was the lockout. Belichick had no idea what kind of shape any of his players were in and whether they were dedicated to preparing for the season. Typically by draft day coaches and GMs have a good idea of what players are committed to the offseason and which ones aren't. He also would have known how guys like Bodden were recovering from their injury. The lockout screwed up a lot of player evaluation. Hence why there is so much bad football this year.

I think if there wasn't a lockout, Belichick might have gotten some of the players he let go into shape to work out for the season. He might have also been more active in free agency to replace these players. The free agency was so condensed and crazy this year, you either had to bowl many of the better free agents over or they went back to their own team with one year deals. The Pats experienced that with Goldson who decided to take an one year deal with his old team rather than a better deal with the Pats.

1)When all 3 Ts are healthy, Light will be the starting LT, not the insurance

2)The BB system...aka...the Patriot Way...only take players that love football and put football ahead of everything else. Are you saying these players showed up out of shape? This has never been reported, and these players played preseason games. The out of shape arguement is bogus. Funny how the JAGs picked up from other rosters were in shape but not the Patriot 6?? You are making excuses.

3)The "Big Bucks for Free Agents" arguement is completely false also. Vets were available for weeks without offers. GMs opted to keep rosters intact because of so little lack time. Little money was thrown around

 

[Shelterdog]

1)When all 3 Ts are healthy, Light will be the starting LT, not the insurance

2)The BB system...aka...the Patriot Way...only take players that love football and put football ahead of everything else. Are you saying these players showed up out of shape? This has never been reported, and these players played preseason games.

1.) Even if he doesn't displace Vollmer/Light, Solder's going to get to start a lot of games in future years. You're not just drafting a guy for 2011.

2.) It certainly was reported that Sanders, Wilhite and BMW were out of shape. Injuries were a problem for Wilhite and Sanders that might have contributed to the conditioning problems.

 

[Deus Irae]

Another question:

What happened between draft day and today? Belichick drafted for depth in 2011, adding an extra T (Light insurance), an extra DB (Bodden/McCourty seen as starters) added backup RBs and a 3rd QB. BB treated this draft as a depth builder for a roster that appeared intact going into the lockout.

Fast forward to today.

7 DBs on the 2010 roster (6 of 7 were cut) are no longer Patriots

Sanders
Page
Meriweather

Bodden
Butler
Wheatley
Wilhite

BB drafts 1 DB....months later jettisons 6 DBs (Page contract was up I believe). What happened that BB went from a high comfort level in his secondary to an almost complete removal? How did it get so bad that BB would rather use practice squad players and crappy team castoffs? Could they all have regressed at the same time? Or was their an epidemic of bad attitudes?

His work in the secondary since 2007 has been a huge problem. I don't think you'll find too many rational people who'll argue against that.

 

[Shelterdog]

His work in the secondary since 2007 has been a huge problem. I don't think you'll find too many rational people who'll argue against that.

You won't find that many irrational people who will argue that.

BMW/Chung/Dowling/Wheatley/DMC/Butler/Wilhite are all in their first contracts; you should have at least four starting caliber DBs from using that many high picks. Add a big contract for Bodden and you should have five or more real contributors from your costly acquisitions. They have 2 with 1 guy on IR.

It would be better if the street guys they're using were wonderful surpises, but other than Arrington they're not.

 

[Ring 6]

Another question:

What happened between draft day and today? Belichick drafted for depth in 2011, adding an extra T (Light insurance), an extra DB (Bodden/McCourty seen as starters) added backup RBs and a 3rd QB. BB treated this draft as a depth builder for a roster that appeared intact going into the lockout.

Well the 33rd pick was used to address the secondary.
When Solder was drafted Light was a FA not on the roster.
We did not draft backup RBs we drafted RBs while having a starter with 1 year left on his contract.
Your argument appears to be we should have drafted starting DBs yet you dismiss the db drafted 33 as unnecessary because we didnt need starters?

Fast forward to today.

7 DBs on the 2010 roster (6 of 7 were cut) are no longer Patriots

Sanders
Page
Meriweather

Bodden
Butler
Wheatley
Wilhite

Page was a FA who did nothing last year to make it seem worth keeping him.
Wheatley was already gone.

I'm not sure what you are getting at here.

Butler and Wilhite were beaten out. That happens every year, players get beaten out.
Meriwhether and Sanders were beaten out as well. That happens every year players get beaten out.

Whats ironic here is that people are trashing the pass defense yet asking why we didnt keep the guys who were here last year when we played bad pass D.
If the roster was full of the guys listed above, everyone would be complaining that we did nothing to improve a weak spot.
People cheered when Wheately, Wilhite, Butler and Meriwhether were released.

BB drafts 1 DB....months later jettisons 6 DBs (Page contract was up I believe). What happened that BB went from a high comfort level in his secondary to an almost complete removal? How did it get so bad that BB would rather use practice squad players and crappy team castoffs? Could they all have regressed at the same time? Or was their an epidemic of bad attitudes?

Roster turnover happens. Dowling and Moulden beat out Wilhite and Butler. Please show me all the posts where you were telling everyone how great those guys were and how we were all set.
Bodden did something to get fired, seven weeks into the season. You want BB to predict that in April?
Meriwhether stunk it up, and Sanders was injured, slow and a poor fit for a defense that was putting more emphasis on coverage in safeties.

What is the point of asking questions with obvious answers?

 

[Rob0729]

1)When all 3 Ts are healthy, Light will be the starting LT, not the insurance

2)The BB system...aka...the Patriot Way...only take players that love football and put football ahead of everything else. Are you saying these players showed up out of shape? This has never been reported, and these players played preseason games. The out of shape arguement is bogus. Funny how the JAGs picked up from other rosters were in shape but not the Patriot 6?? You are making excuses.

3)The "Big Bucks for Free Agents" arguement is completely false also. Vets were available for weeks without offers. GMs opted to keep rosters intact because of so little lack time. Little money was thrown around

1.) So they are going to draft another LT and cut Solder? Solder is the LT of the future, not an insurance policy for Matt Light. Light is his insurance. Solder just isn't ready to start just yet at LT. At the time they drafted Solder, there was no guarantee that Light would be back with the Patriots.

2.) There were many reports that Meriweather was cut at least in part because he wasn't in game shape when he reported to camp and was slow to come around. When you don't have an offseason and you bring over 80 guys to camp, some of them will be out of shape. I am not saying all of the guys cut were out of shape. Reports Meriweather was and one or two others who were cut might be in that situation.

3.) There were a lot of players who forgone long term deals to play under one year offers (most with their own team and some with others). This was because they were not getting the money they wanted. That means to get these guys you would have had to overpay for them because they were content to go back to their own teams rather than take deals lesser than what they were willing to take. There was plenty of money spent. So eventhough many teams were frugal, players still wanted to get paid. Many players got record breaking deals this offseason too.