Dungy: Draft Luck...Trade Manning if he can still play

[MoLewisrocks]

More wisdom from the clown who always insisted Manning was the GOAT and predicted Manning would start this season unless he was dead. Such loyalty to the guy who saved his HC career and got a glorified DC a ring and all those book deals and a gig on SNF. No wonder the Colts are always tossing each other under busses... It starts from the top (Polian - Ursay's actually almost loyal to a fault after being raised by a drunk who had none) and filters straight down. Manning is worth more to that franchise retired than Luck might ever prove to be in his lifetime.

Colts | Tony Dungy says team should pursue Andrew Luck - NFL Hot off the Wire

 

[patfanken]

More wisdom from the clown who always insisted Manning was the GOAT and predicted Manning would start this season unless he was dead. Such loyalty to the guy who saved his HC career and got a glorified DC a ring and all those book deals and a gig on SNF. No wonder the Colts are always tossing each other under busses... It starts from the top (Polian - Ursay's actually almost loyal to a fault after being raised by a drunk who had none) and filters straight down. Manning is worth more to that franchise retired than Luck might ever prove to be in his lifetime.

Colts | Tony Dungy says team should pursue Andrew Luck - NFL Hot off the Wire

I don't know Mo, I think I'm going to have to disagree, though I'll acknowledge ahead of time that there is no good answer here.

If the reports are true that Luck truly IS that once in a generation NFL ready QB, then why not. Right now the Colts are on the decline. Most of their best players are on the downside, and recently they've been horrible in the draft. Time to rebuild their infrastructure..

Why not trade Manning to a team needing "just one more player" for 3 high picks. When you do the numbers what are you losing. Sure he's the 2nd best....now 3rd best QB on the planet, but even if healthy (and that's not an easy guess with a nerve injury), how many more productive years does he have 2....3. So if you are Polian, you are trading at MOST 3 good years of Manning for 15 with Luck....PLUS all the draft picks to surround him with the players he is going to need.....PLUS now you have much more cap room to add quality FAs

I'd do it in a second. The problem is WHO would be willing to give up at LEAST 2 #1s plus other picks AND take on a $20MM cap hit.....even for Peyton Manning? THAT's the reason a deal won't get done....if the Colts wind up with the worst record.

 

[patchick]

I'm no Dungy fan by any stretch, but I think his point is reasonable and not particularly disrespectful. It's no slight on Manning's past accomplishments to say that a 36-year-old coming off a series of neck surgeries from which he may or may not ever fully recover isn't the guy to build your franchise's future around.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Because obviously Dungy doesn't know Manning very well or have any grasp of the cap and contracts. Manning can't be traded unless they pick up his option. Trade him after that and you kill your cap for 2012 and 2013. Not to mention Manning cares about legacy so he isn't going just anywhere...if anywhere. He might go where he knows he can cause you the most damage, but my gut is he won't go, period. Irsay realizes he is worth more to the franchise as a retired HOF GOAT and he probably realizes Luck would be lucky to survive the first couple of seasons in Indy without the picks or the cap or cash to rebuild overnight... And the Luck camp may realize that too and not want any part of being the guy who came after Manning in Indy...

Some of you like Tony fail to grasp that football is first and foremost a business and not just a game. Screw up the business end of the game and you are really screwed.

 

[RIpats88]

im tired of all this praise of Luck...he may be good, but the guy hasnt shown anything yet on an NFL field for all this talk about having to throw out manning and draft him..

manning may be old, but so is tom brady!.....what the Colts need to do is draft a solid QB and let him learn under manning...whether that be luck or someone else.

like what the packers did with Favre-Rodgers, and what the Patriots are now doing with Brady-Mallet...having any rookie QB sit behind an elite QB and learn/ease into the NFL is the best possible situation

 

[patfanken]

Because obviously Dungy doesn't know Manning very well or have any grasp of the cap and contracts. Manning can't be traded unless they pick up his option. Trade him after that and you kill your cap for 2012 and 2013. Not to mention Manning cares about legacy so he isn't going just anywhere...if anywhere. He might go where he knows he can cause you the most damage, but my gut is he won't go, period. Irsay realizes he is worth more to the franchise as a retired HOF GOAT and he probably realizes Luck would be lucky to survive the first couple of seasons in Indy without the picks or the cap or cash to rebuild overnight... And the Luck camp may realize that too and not want any part of being the guy who came after Manning in Indy...
Some of you like Tony fail to grasp that football is first and foremost a business and not just a game. Screw up the business end of the game and you are really screwed.

I don't know Mo. His legacy in Indy is secure regardless if he ran the string out somewhere else. Joe Willie ended up in LA. Montana in KC. It happens to most of them.

Would you REALLY be surprised if after his contract ran out, Brady didn't head to the Coast to help re-establish the new LA franchise. Would Pats fans think any less of him when he ultimately comes back to have his jersey retired a few years after that. No. I don't think so.

No. it won't tarnish the legacy of Manning if he left, any more than it did those other guys. However the more I think on it, the less I see some OTHER team willing to pay so much in picks and cap space

 

[RJB87]

This really is the best case for the Colts as a team. Unload an $18 million a year contract, get this coveted QB, trade Manning for some picks to build around for the new kid.

Just a quick point I want to make: The last time there was a QB coming out of college that went #1 overall, with a last name that started with the letter "L" and was 4 letters long it didn't work out too well. But the QB that was taken after him worked out pretty darn well.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I don't know Mo. His legacy in Indy is secure regardless if he ran the string out somewhere else. Joe Willie ended up in LA. Montana in KC. It happens to most of them. Would you REALLY be surprised if after his contract ran out, Brady didn't head to the Coast to help re-establish the new LA franchise. Would Pats fans think any less of him when he ultimately comes back to have his jersey retired a few years after that. No. I don't think so. No. it won't tarnish the legacy of Manning if he left, any more than it did those other guys. However the more I think on it, the less I see some OTHER team willing to pay so much in picks and cap space

Yeah, I would be stunned if Brady headed anywhere but home to his wife and kids and more endorsements. He's not going to jeopardize his legacy any more than Manning or Belichick will. Belichick won't coach another NFL team. If he still wants to coach he will coach here or coach at the Naval Academy or maybe his own colleges Lacrosse team... What happened to most of them in the olden days has no bearing on what happens in this media age. Why do you think the Packers tried to pay Favre to retire??? They wanted to protect a business asset. That is now so damaged it will likely have cost them way more than the $20M they tried to pay him off with between now and his induction. Even though they won a Lombardi without him...and he just made a mockery out of 2 more fan bases. The NEP and Colts would be beyond lucky if that were to be their fate after trading away two of the all time GOAT candidates.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

This really is the best case for the Colts as a team. Unload an $18 million a year contract, get this coveted QB, trade Manning for some picks to build around for the new kid.

Just a quick point I want to make: The last time there was a QB coming out of college that went #1 overall, with a last name that started with the letter "L" and was 4 letters long it didn't work out too well. But the QB that was taken after him worked out pretty darn well.

Again, they can't trade him unless they pick up his option in February in which case they will be on the hook for enough cap cost to land them in that cap hell we've always anticipated...

Manning and Condon aren't stupid. They gave the Colts an out clause of sorts if he cannot play and themselves a guaranteed one via dead cap if he can...

 

[Luke Skywelker]

The Andrew Luck sweepstakes could become very interesting depending on how things unfold towards the end of this season. A number of teams have invested in young and supposedly franchise QB's in recent years. The only team with a strong chance of landing that pick that would have no drama is Miami.

Like many, I cannot get too hard on Dungy. If you're thinking smart business, you think long term and an Andrew Luck with 15+ years of runway on him is more valuable than a Peyton Manning and a potentially injury plagued 3-4 years. Luck's hype alone with draw fans. In Luck, you bridge to the face of the next generation of that franchise and that is something you may have to do earlier rather than later to get a can't miss, even if it is a tad premature. It's the PR side that is going to get interesting. Look at the downside here - if they pass, then they could be scrambling for reaches for years and we all know what busting on a first round QB impact has on a franchise. Although maybe not quite as tough a hit with the new rookie caps.

St. Louis is also an interesting situation - they are a bad football team/banged up. What happens if they land that pick? Granted they have Bradford, but how about if that franchise sees Luck as an A+ to Bradford's A-? Bradford has also had some injury issues that you have to think about. Playing in the NFC West will likely give them a couple wins.

I still think this one is between Miami and Indy. Miami plays in a division where they likely can't win a game, here especially without Henne. They also have a lame duck coach. I'm hoping they don't land the pick, number one because it brings Luck to the division, number 2 because there is not much of a storyline. I want to see what teams do if it's not a complete logical pick and if they trade out, how many picks it takes.

 

[SVN]

i think it wont be a bad idea. If carson palmer can get 2 1s ..imagine what the colts can get for manning..would be cool if he went to minnesota or some team and revive them..

 

[MoLewisrocks]

im tired of all this praise of Luck...he may be good, but the guy hasnt shown anything yet on an NFL field for all this talk about having to throw out manning and draft him.. manning may be old, but so is tom brady!.....what the Colts need to do is draft a solid QB and let him learn under manning...whether that be luck or someone else. like what the packers did with Favre-Rodgers, and what the Patriots are now doing with Brady-Mallet...having any rookie QB sit behind an elite QB and learn/ease into the NFL is the best possible situation

Do not mention Rogers-Favre and Mallet-Brady in the same breath... People forget that Rogers was a projected top ten who dropped to 24 because of circumstances of the draw, not because of character questions. And he was selected by a team Favre had been hinting on retiring on for 3 years. He had to sit for 3 more and in the end they had to basically trade Favre away in an ugly ego driven breakup. Rodgers and his HC almost didn't last long enough in GB to pull it off. And the fans and media in GB are a lot more loyal to the laundry than the fans and media here...much to the Wrangler Man's chagrin. Brady and Manning are so media and business savvy, no way they allow themselves to be pawns in anything that could end up impacting their worldwide perception...

 

[BradyMossWelker]

Do not mention Rogers-Favre and Mallet-Brady in the same breath...

Why not?

He's not saying Mallet is as good as Rodgers. He's talking about the strategy.

Drafting a great college QB. Who has good NFL tools, then letting him learn behind a HOF QB.

 

[Patpartizan]

What's the rush to judgement for Tony?

Decide in April of 2012 if Manning's health is returned. If it has I see Manning playing at a high level into his forties. He plays at least 8 games inside every year and I truly believe he wants to set every possible QB record.

If Indy is #1 in 2012 trade the choice for players and picks to strengthen Peyton's team for another 5 years.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

I still think this one is between Miami and Indy. Miami plays in a division where they likely can't win a game, here especially without Henne. They also have a lame duck coach. I'm hoping they don't land the pick, number one because it brings Luck to the division, number 2 because there is not much of a storyline. I want to see what teams do if it's not a complete logical pick and if they trade out, how many picks it takes.

Indy plays JAX and Carolina so there is a shot for a win there while Miami could possibly lose out.......

 

[scout]

What's the rush to judgement for Tony?

Decide in April of 2012 if Manning's health is returned. If it has I see Manning playing at a high level into his forties. He plays at least 8 games inside every year and I truly believe he wants to set every possible QB record.

If Indy is #1 in 2012 trade the choice for players and picks to strengthen Peyton's team for another 5 years.

Too late. The decision to cut Manning begins five days after the Superbowl. I will bet that Manning will never play again.

 

[Rusty Coupe]

More wisdom from the clown who always insisted Manning was the GOAT and predicted Manning would start this season unless he was dead. Such loyalty to the guy who saved his HC career and got a glorified DC a ring and all those book deals and a gig on SNF. No wonder the Colts are always tossing each other under busses... It starts from the top (Polian - Ursay's actually almost loyal to a fault after being raised by a drunk who had none) and filters straight down. Manning is worth more to that franchise retired than Luck might ever prove to be in his lifetime.

If you look at what Dungy is saying within the context of what Stephen Ross' is planning for 2012, it might make some sense from Dungy's POV if he has had conversations(my speculation) with the Dolphins.

It doesn’t stop there. Ross is so focused on getting his team a franchise quarterback that he has told friends, much as losses pain him in the short-term, he’s aware they offer long-term gain because they put Miami in better position to pick Stanford quarterback Andrew Luck in the next draft.
So who is going to pick and coach the franchise quarterback Ross covets?
Sources close to Ross said the owner is open to either hiring a superstar head coach who would have final say over all of football operations or hiring a football czar type who would hire a coach and either hire a general manager or serve as the GM while having final say over all personnel moves.


Miami Dolphins’ Stephen Ross wants franchise QB, superstar coach to cure team’s ills - Armando Salguero - MiamiHerald.com

 

[Tunescribe]

I don't know Mo, I think I'm going to have to disagree, though I'll acknowledge ahead of time that there is no good answer here.

If the reports are true that Luck truly IS that once in a generation NFL ready QB, then why not. Right now the Colts are on the decline. Most of their best players are on the downside, and recently they've been horrible in the draft. Time to rebuild their infrastructure..

Why not trade Manning to a team needing "just one more player" for 3 high picks. When you do the numbers what are you losing. Sure he's the 2nd best....now 3rd best QB on the planet, but even if healthy (and that's not an easy guess with a nerve injury), how many more productive years does he have 2....3. So if you are Polian, you are trading at MOST 3 good years of Manning for 15 with Luck....PLUS all the draft picks to surround him with the players he is going to need.....PLUS now you have much more cap room to add quality FAs

I'd do it in a second. The problem is WHO would be willing to give up at LEAST 2 #1s plus other picks AND take on a $20MM cap hit.....even for Peyton Manning? THAT's the reason a deal won't get done....if the Colts wind up with the worst record.

First and foremost is the fact that once or maybe twice a generation comes a player of such ability and iconic stature that he becomes synonymous with his team/organization. Manning has been THE Colts franchise for years and should retire with them on his own terms or until he simply can't play any longer. They owe EVERYTHING to that guy, including their Super Bowl win. I could not see the Patriots do anything of the sort with Brady regardless of circumstances; such players simply rise above such considerations.

Secondly (to your point), there's some doubt that Manning could command a satisfactory return in trade given his age, health status and contract. And finally, there is no guarantee Luck will be a shoe-in to succeed regardless of how promising he seems, or that he won't try to manipulate things a la Eli to go where he wants.

I agree with Mo that Dungy's suggestion is quite a head-scratcher.

If you look at what Dungy is saying within the context of what Stephen Ross' is planning for 2012, it might make some sense from Dungy's POV if he has had conversations(my speculation) with the Dolphins.

Taking the long view in this case is very short-sighted. Encouraging a team culture of losing and futility in the interest of capitalizing on that suckage next year only makes the job that much harder for the next administration. Better to make sure the Dolphins (or Colts) kick, bite and scratch for two or three wins this year than lay down and lose them all.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Too late. The decision to cut Manning begins five days after the Superbowl. I will bet that Manning will never play again.

It will certainly be a case of he does for Indy or he doesn't, period. These people can't seem to grasp the fact that he can't be traded unless they pick up that option, and they are already on the hook for substantial dead cap ($16M) even if they don't. If they do and then try to trade him the dead cap would be crippling ($16M + $28M)...

 

[patfanken]

Mo, contrary to you, I see an LA deal happening quite easily for the 2015 season. Actually a quid pro quo for everyone involved. At that point Bs rady would be 38, and maybe have a couple of decent seasons left in him.....maybe. Business wise there will be nothing more for him to do in NE. By going to the west coast and becoming the face of the new LA franchise, Brady would sell a lot of tickets in the 2nd largest market in the league, and the league would reward that bit of marketing support by making sure the Pats were rewarded with plenty of draft picks in compensation.

Meanwhile Brady would play out the last 2 years of his career in the sunshine of SoCal, while the Pats keep rolling along with a very effective, if lesser QB, running a team that will continue to be very competitive well past MY expiration date. Maybe even a team that will be known for its fierce pass rush