OT - Olin Kreutz walks away from the Saints

[Snake Eyes]

Would you rather he do this?



INSIDE THE PATRIOTS: Bryant won't take anything for granted | SouthCoastToday.com

I don't think either are very good, leaving announced v. leaving unannounced. I really don't feel bad for him because he didnt fit in and was having problems adapting, they're being paid very well to be professionals, and that means dealing with frustration and discomfort.

Take Ellis Hobbs for instance, he was a less than stellar CB for I can't fault his character or integrity at all, in the 07 run he played throughout the season with numerous injuries and very likely had tremendous pain as a result. I doubt he had much passion for the game that that point.

As BB is fond of saying "Do your job", I doubt it's always a game to those guys, it's likely often a job, sometimes going out on that field is torture depending on their health, yet many find it within themselves to do it. Kreutz does not deserve to be thought of on the same level as those guys.

 

[Betterthanmost]

You've gone rogue! I thought we voted down the "Dislike" button. You made your own. The Moderators are going to go nuts. You are playing a very dangerous game. One that no one, in the end, can win.

No way this generate any movement. It was apt for this thread given the week that this was and nothing else. I don't think he is trying to revolt or stir anything up. It was all just good fun. The humor might be lost on those who missed the thread and might take offense.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

We're Patriots fans, we're not suppose to know about class. We should consult the expert on everything that is class through Ladanian Tomlison.


Now that I got the sarcasm off my chest, it takes alot to walk away from the game and if his heart isn't in it, then I say he did the right thing (though I bet the organization wished he had figured it out sooner).

 

[DaBruinz]

- His teammates might not think of it as just a game, this kind of stuff impacts careers and lives and I don't think it should be simply dismissed. Also, in what parts of society should actually honoring your word be expected and in what areas should we not expect it?

You are telling others not to impose their ideas on his words, yet you go right ahead and impose YOUR ideas on his teammates. That's rich..

I find it funny that you go from calling the guy classless, to claiming his actions have no integrity, to claiming the guy isn't honorable. That sounds like someone throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks..

- He never claimed that his body was wreaked and he wanted to further limit damage as the reason for his decision, he said it was a lack of passion. Please don't impose your own ideas on his words, his words should be able to stand on their own.

How do you KNOW he never claimed that is body was wrecked? Because the article didn't mention it? Hell, how do you know that wasn't part of the reason he lacked the passion. Also, who the hell are you to act like you are owed some sort of explanation beyond him no longer "having the passion for the game?" Seriously, you are a no name fan from another team who is clueless about what was actually said to Payton and Loomis. None of that was released.

YOU should not impose YOUR ideas on his words. Which you have done through-out this thread. All you've proven is that you are a hypocrite.

 

[chicowalker]

Umm, there's a difference between 'not having a passion' for something and 'realizing you can't do something anymore. I've done PLENTY of things I didnt have a passion for, some were out of necessity, others from commitment, which is very different from being physically unable to do something.

Also, I didn't say 'he has no integrity' only that that action lacks integrity.

I'm thinking that most people would think an employee classless if they upped and quit their job other people they work with are then compromised as a result, but if well known athlete does it then we measure them differently.

It depends on how it was handled. Did he just walk away without a word, never to come back? Was it something discussed that they agreed upon? Did they ask him to stay?

Employees quit all the time. Leaving without notice is improper or "classless." Giving proper notice is not.

 

[DaBruinz]

It depends on how it was handled. Did he just walk away without a word, never to come back? Was it something discussed that they agreed upon? Did they ask him to stay?

Employees quit all the time. Leaving without notice is improper or "classless." Giving proper notice is not.

According to ESPN, he told his agent, then met with Payton and Loomis who tried to talk him in to staying, but still decided that he couldn't do it anymore.

Agent -- Center Olin Kreutz walks away from New Orleans Saints - ESPN

 

[Snake Eyes]

You are telling others not to impose their ideas on his words, yet you go right ahead and impose YOUR ideas on his teammates. That's rich..

- "His teammates might not think of it as just a game..."

I said "might', I'm not imposing anything, learn to read.


- "this kind of stuff impacts careers and lives"

This is an objective fact, it does impact others, the fact that Payton tried to convince him to stay should be a clue.

I find it funny that you go from calling the guy classless, to claiming his actions have no integrity, to claiming the guy isn't honorable. That sounds like someone throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks..

No, it's because there's quite a bit of overlap between all those terms, how often do people without honor have a lot of integrity? Yet again, learn to read.

How do you KNOW he never claimed that is body was wrecked? Because the article didn't mention it? Hell, how do you know that wasn't part of the reason he lacked the passion. Also, who the hell are you to act like you are owed some sort of explanation beyond him no longer "having the passion for the game?" Seriously, you are a no name fan from another team who is clueless about what was actually said to Payton and Loomis. None of that was released.

Ok, so because I don't know he didnt claim a wreaked body I should automatically assume that's the case? Please refrain from ever serving on a jury.

YOU should not impose YOUR ideas on his words. Which you have done through-out this thread. All you've proven is that you are a hypocrite.

Yeah, not assuming things = imposing your ideas? Learn to read, take a class in basic logic.

 

[Snake Eyes]

It depends on how it was handled. Did he just walk away without a word, never to come back? Was it something discussed that they agreed upon? Did they ask him to stay?

Employees quit all the time. Leaving without notice is improper or "classless." Giving proper notice is not.

Well, what makes a certain degree of notice "proper"? I think it's very relative to how replaceable the person is, if it's a position that doesnt require a lot of specialized knowledge or skill then 2 weeks might be plenty, more time would be reasonable the more specialized and scarce a replacement is.

As far as the proper time for a starting NFL Center, I don't know but I'd imagine it's not in the middle of the season.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

According to ESPN, he told his agent, then met with Payton and Loomis who tried to talk him in to staying, but still decided that he couldn't do it anymore. Agent -- Center Olin Kreutz walks away from New Orleans Saints - ESPN

Based on what I read there and heard on the clip, Snake isn't off base. Although as this board often underscores, society these days often is. Sounds to me like Olin is pretty self absorbed. Left the team he wanted to retire with because they wouldn't pay him more and then left the team he signed on to start for and notified them that's what he was planning on the day after the trade deadline because he's just not feelin' it... But won't file his retirement papers because as his agent hints you never know when he just might start feelin' it again...

 

[Deus Irae]

Follow up:

Despite swirling rumors that Kreutz’s exit was preceded by a scuffle of some type with offensive line coach Aaron Kromer, the reality is that Kreutz and the team made a mutual decision to part ways after a review of the film indicated that Brian de la Puente was the better option.

De la Puente started a pair of games this year while Kreutz was injured, and the team planned to move forward with de la Puente as the starter. Kreutz didn’t want to be paid at a rate of $2 million for the season ($117,647 per week) if he wasn’t a factor.

Kreutz, Saints decided to part ways in lieu of benching | ProFootballTalk

 

[jbb9s]

NFL.com news: Kreutz walks away from Saints citing lack of passion

I think this is an absolutely classless and dishonorable thing to do but it bodes well for our 1st round Saints pick next draft!

I was kind of thinking the opposite. The worst the Saints, the higher their>our pick, the more likely BB trades it away. Althought on 2nd thought, there is a cap, so maybe the strategy changes?

 

[DaBruinz]

- "His teammates might not think of it as just a game..."

I said "might', I'm not imposing anything, learn to read.


- "this kind of stuff impacts careers and lives"

This is an objective fact, it does impact others, the fact that Payton tried to convince him to stay should be a clue.

I read just fine. What's clear is the double standard you have. It's okay for you to say things without facts, yet if others do, you lambaste them.

BTW, you should read your own posts. You claim that "I don't think it should simply be dismissed." That is you imposing your ideas on the teammates because you have no idea if they would dismiss it or not. DUH.

As for your claim that Payton and Loomis attempting to convince Kreautz to stay, yes it does affect careers and lives. Mainly Kreutz's, but also Tennant's and Brees'. But if you think that Payton and Loomis immediately thought that then you are disrespecting both of them greatly because you are assuming that their first reaction would only be about the team and not about Kreautz. There is another possible scenario. One that isj ust as likely. That Payton saw things in film that didn't support Kreutz's idea that he didn't have the passion to play anymore. One of the things that you don't seem to realize is that many people are their own worst critics.

Also, because neither you, I nor the agent actually know the full extent of the conversation, we don't know exactly what Payton said. Nor do we know what the agent asked Kreutz, exactly, because we don't have a transcript. He could have just asked Kreutz "Did they try and talk you into staying?".

No, it's because there's quite a bit of overlap between all those terms, how often do people without honor have a lot of integrity? Yet again, learn to read.

I read just fine. The problem is that you can't even follow your own posts. See, you threw a hissy fit when patchick replied to you go so far as to say:

Also, I didn't say 'he has no integrity' only that that action lacks integrity.

Yet, you claim that Kreutz is honorless...

Like I said, throwing stuff out to see what sticks..

Ok, so because I don't know he didnt claim a wreaked body I should automatically assume that's the case? Please refrain from ever serving on a jury.

Clearly, you are the one who has never thought logically in your life. You are going around making judgments about a player without all the facts. Not I. In fact, YOU are damning him pretty badly by calling him classless, honorless and saying that his actions lack integrity. YOU are the one who should never serve on a jury because you are the one who has automatically assumed things with no evidence at all to support your claim.

yeah, not assuming things = imposing your ideas? Learn to read, take a class in basic logic.

Umm.. You've made assumptions about him through out this thread.. Where the hell do you get off claiming otherwise? YOU are the one who needs to take a basic class in logic, not I. As for reading, I've proven I read just fine. I've also proven to be very good with logic and not making assumptions. You, on the other hand, try to pass your ideas off as truth and try to impose your ideas on players without even a modicum of evidence to support your claims.

 

[DaBruinz]

Based on what I read there and heard on the clip, Snake isn't off base. Although as this board often underscores, society these days often is. Sounds to me like Olin is pretty self absorbed. Left the team he wanted to retire with because they wouldn't pay him more and then left the team he signed on to start for and notified them that's what he was planning on the day after the trade deadline because he's just not feelin' it... But won't file his retirement papers because as his agent hints you never know when he just might start feelin' it again...

Mo - The problem is that Kreutz left the Saints in a way that he doesn't draw a paycheck. Meaning that the Saints are no longer on the hook for his remaining salary. If he was so self-absorbed, he'd have just stayed and collected the paycheck while sitting on the bench..

As for the agent not filing the papers, that sounds to me like the agent covering his ass. It also sounds like Kreutz has filled out the papers and the agent just hasn't filed them.. As Seau proved, getting re-instated isn't that hard.

 

[Snake Eyes]

BTW, you should read your own posts. You claim that "I don't think it should simply be dismissed." That is you imposing your ideas on the teammates because you have no idea if they would dismiss it or not. DUH.

This has got to get the award for the dumbest post ever. I'm imposing my ideas because I don't believing in dismissing an action that could negatively impact others? Do simply dismiss it and assume "His team will be fine, they're probably happy for him" is to impose a positive spin on it, to automatically assume they're pissed and hate him would be to assume a negative one, I did neither, I said that he's not honoring his word to that and his actions could impact them in a very bad way. Learn to read.

As for your claim that Payton and Loomis attempting to convince Kreautz to stay, yes it does affect careers and lives. Mainly Kreutz's, but also Tennant's and Brees'. But if you think that Payton and Loomis immediately thought that then you are disrespecting both of them greatly because you are assuming that their first reaction would only be about the team and not about Kreautz. There is another possible scenario. One that isj ust as likely. That Payton saw things in film that didn't support Kreutz's idea that he didn't have the passion to play anymore. One of the things that you don't seem to realize is that many people are their own worst critics.

I don't know about the details of their conversations and don't pretend to, all I know is that Payton wants him to stay, which makes evident Payton's preference for him NOT to leave.

Also, because neither you, I nor the agent actually know the full extent of the conversation, we don't know exactly what Payton said. Nor do we know what the agent asked Kreutz, exactly, because we don't have a transcript. He could have just asked Kreutz "Did they try and talk you into staying?".

I can't form an opinion on unknowns, I know what Kreutz said and that Payton wanted him to stay, and I'm basing my opinion on that.

I read just fine. The problem is that you can't even follow your own posts. See, you threw a hissy fit when patchick replied to you go so far as to say:

Yet, you claim that Kreutz is honorless...

Like I said, throwing stuff out to see what sticks..

Ok, I said "this is an...thing to do".

Patchick said "I'd think hard about...before saying he has no integrity.

As much as I love and admire Patchick I do think she didnt do a good job here, I didnt claim Kreutz had no integrity, I referred to a specific action by him. There's a difference, you see. Can a generally bad person perform a good act? Can a generally good person pull a jerk move? Of course, it happens all the time.

I don't know much about Kreutz and didnt attempt to make a broad judgment of him but I did judge that specific action.

Clearly, you are the one who has never thought logically in your life. You are going around making judgments about a player without all the facts. Not I. In fact, YOU are damning him pretty badly by calling him classless, honorless and saying that his actions lack integrity. YOU are the one who should never serve on a jury because you are the one who has automatically assumed things with no evidence at all to support your claim.

Umm.. You've made assumptions about him through out this thread.. Where the hell do you get off claiming otherwise? YOU are the one who needs to take a basic class in logic, not I. As for reading, I've proven I read just fine. I've also proven to be very good with logic and not making assumptions. You, on the other hand, try to pass your ideas off as truth and try to impose your ideas on players without even a modicum of evidence to support your claims.

See my above response. I didnt say "Kreutz was classless", I'm terribly sorry that my actual words are getting in the way of your argument and you feel the need to impose even more of your ideas.

You're argument that "I don't have all the facts" is especially weak, as none of us do, so should every human need to without forming an opinion on a subject or should we make opinions on the information available to us?

That said, since you don't have all the facts either why are you assuming any position on Kreutz's actions, after all you don't have all the facts

 

[Snake Eyes]

Mo - The problem is that Kreutz left the Saints in a way that he doesn't draw a paycheck. Meaning that the Saints are no longer on the hook for his remaining salary. If he was so self-absorbed, he'd have just stayed and collected the paycheck while sitting on the bench..

As for the agent not filing the papers, that sounds to me like the agent covering his ass. It also sounds like Kreutz has filled out the papers and the agent just hasn't filed them.. As Seau proved, getting re-instated isn't that hard.

If it's simply about a desire not to take money from the Saints due to his lack of impact can't Kreutz simply take less money? Of course he can, but the Saints don't seem to care about what he's owed per his contract, even if he's going to be lowered on the depth chart they still want him, it's called depth and it can be very valuable.

For Kreutz to leave, even though his head coach wants him to stay is not selfless, it's selfish.

 

[fnordcircle]

If it's simply about a desire not to take money from the Saints due to his lack of impact can't Kreutz simply take less money? Of course he can, but the Saints don't seem to care about what he's owed per his contract, even if he's going to be lowered on the depth chart they still want him, it's called depth and it can be very valuable.

For Kreutz to leave, even though his head coach wants him to stay is not selfless, it's selfish.

You're actually arguing that a guy who quit because he doesn't feel he has enough drive to deserve his paycheck is selfish?

Just admit you didn't read the article and move on.