Adios Ocho - Ola Randy Moss?

[DaBruinz]

Johnson is 5th WR because he stinks and brings almost nothing.

Ocho wasnt brought to NE to sit and watch from the sideline to ooh and aah how awesome Brady is. What happens when the Pats actually need him vs a good defense like the Ravens? Oh, well, Chad is the 5th option and not much is expected from him. Its all good.

Chad is the 5th option because he stinks? Yet you want to bring back Randy Moss who was traded to the Vikings and then cut by them and signed by the Titans where he did nothing..

Ocho is the 5th option because the Pats don't run many 3/4/5 WR sets anymore. Why? Because it would take Hernandez And/Or Gronkowski off the field. You know, the two guys who create significant mismatches against defenses.

As for the route running.. Even Welker and Branch have run the wrong route on occasion. And that is despite having been in the system as long as they have. Acting like Ocho should be as good as them is just foolishness on your part.

 

[DaBruinz]

I have no doubts that Moss could do more than Ocho.

For one, he learned the offense.

Really? And Moss showed this how? By his lack of motivation prior to getting traded? By his comments in Minnesota that got him cut? Or the stellar play he showed everyone in Tennessee last year??

BTW, Moss had 5 months to learn the offense and practice with Brady. Ocho has had less than 3..

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I have no doubts that Moss could do more than Ocho.

For one, he learned the offense.

Yeah, he just didn't execute it consistently and increasingly took up more space than he drew coverage and obcessed about his status and lacked mental toughness not to mention was physically breaking down. But aside from that he was a much better fit...LOL

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Chad is the 5th option because he stinks? Yet you want to bring back Randy Moss who was traded to the Vikings and then cut by them and signed by the Titans where he did nothing..

Ocho is the 5th option because the Pats don't run many 3/4/5 WR sets anymore. Why? Because it would take Hernandez And/Or Gronkowski off the field. You know, the two guys who create significant mismatches against defenses.

As for the route running.. Even Welker and Branch have run the wrong route on occasion. And that is despite having been in the system as long as they have. Acting like Ocho should be as good as them is just foolishness on your part.

Or on Bill's part since he's paying him as if he's better...

 

[Rob0729]

I have no doubts that Moss could do more than Ocho.

For one, he learned the offense.

I have serious doubts that Moss can do more. Moss may be a smart player, but his game depends on his physical skills that are completely eroded. If Belichick thought he could help the team, he would be on the team today. When has Belichick have been known not to do what is best for the team. The team has made it clear they have no interest in Moss.

 

[condon84]

Chad had his opportunity when Hernandez was out... He failed to make the most of it. Like Bill said, sometimes opportunities are a function of game planning, but you have to make the most of your opportunities when the game plan presents them. Since then his opportunities have dwindled...because he failed to do just that.

That could be the case. I just think it's too early to give up on Chad only after 6 weeks into the season. We didn't have an offseason and training camp practice was reduced due to the new CBA. Plus take into account the transition Chad is making from his old offense to the new offense where he not only has to learn his routes and it's options against whatever coverage the defense is playing, but also what the other receivers on the field will do against those coverages.

Point is, it's just too early to give up on the guy. He's a proven player in the league, not some rookie with "potential".

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Personally, I never expected more than a good season from Ochocinco. I figured 900-1,000 yards was going to be his ceiling which obviously he won't come close to. I never expected him to replace Welker as Brady's favorite receiver. I didn't think he would make Branch become Brady's third, fourth, or fifth option.

As for production, no one complained about Branch when he went a two game stretch with one catch for 4 yards. Other than the Cowboys' game, there was never a need for Ochocinco to step up and you can argue that the problems with the offense on Sunday were not because Ochocinco didn't become more involved. Until teams figure out how to stop Welker and the TEs, the Pats don't need much more than what Ochocinco is already giving them. It isn't like the Jets where they desperately need Plaxico Burress to step up and he is failing them.

That's because Branch continues to do all the little things we need a WR to do in this offense, not to mention he draws double coverage based on his performance in games when he goes off with Brady... This team is winning on a tight margin and the stress that is placing on Brady is probably why he didn't practice this week. Bill probably suggested he and Giselle take a quick trip to Costa Rica to de-stress... Welker and Branch and the TE's could probably use a break too since they are on the field for nearly every snap because frankly the $6M man isn't remotely capable of even spelling them...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

That could be the case. I just think it's too early to give up on Chad only after 6 weeks into the season. We didn't have an offseason and training camp practice was reduced due to the new CBA. Plus take into account the transition Chad is making from his old offense to the new offense where he not only has to learn his routes and it's options against whatever coverage the defense is playing, but also what the other receivers on the field will do against those coverages.

Point is, it's just too early to give up on the guy. He's a proven player in the league, not some rookie with "potential".

Being a proven player in the league just means potential here, too, or have you forgotten all the other veterans who couldn't assimilate in this system...

 

[patfanken]

Johnson is 5th WR because he stinks and brings almost nothing.

Ocho wasnt brought to NE to sit and watch from the sideline to ooh and aah how awesome Brady is. What happens when the Pats actually need him vs a good defense like the Ravens? Oh, well, Chad is the 5th option and not much is expected from him. Its all good.

No at this point Chad is depth. Do you understand the concept of DEPTH.\?

He would be a very capable back up for Branch when/if he gets injured. He's a very capable receiver when the Pats need to go to 3 WRs, when one of the TE's might be injured.

I don't ignore indications that he's not up to speed in the offense, but I also recognize that at this point, in real time, he'd be just finishing with TC, trying to UNlearn 10 years of other system.

Granted its legit to question the lack of production he's had this year. But to have the same weekly thread EVERY week for the last 10 weeks is just ludicrous. Why is it that Deion Branch can disappear for 2 games when he's getting 50 odd snaps per game and knows the system inside out, but when Chad disappears for one game with 7 snaps its a major news story.

 

[Clonamery]

That's because Branch continues to do all the little things we need a WR to do in this offense, not to mention he draws double coverage based on his performance in games when he goes off with Brady... This team is winning on a tight margin and the stress that is placing on Brady is probably why he didn't practice this week. Bill probably suggested he and Giselle take a quick trip to Costa Rica to de-stress... Welker and Branch and the TE's could probably use a break too since they are on the field for nearly every snap because frankly the $6M man isn't remotely capable of even spelling them...

So the lack of WR and TE depth is Ocho's fault?

 

[Deus Irae]

Since this is another needless "gripe about Johnson" thread, here's a couple of gripes that might at least have some bearing on what happens on the field....


Why aren't the Patriots running some bubble screens to Johnson to get him involved in easier plays and build up his confidence?

Why aren't the Patriots running empty sets and putting Johnson in Motion as the primary, so his route will be the easiest to decipher?

Why aren't the Patriots using that bunch formation with Johnson in the bunch, so that his route is already predetermined and he can focus on just running the play?


Personally, I think having questions like that is a bit better than just having thread number 5214314578 on "Cut Chad and bring back Randy!" being full of guesses about the guy's psyche.

 

[condon84]

Being a proven player in the league just means potential here, too, or have you forgotten all the other veterans who couldn't assimilate in this system...

That's a good point, but at the same time, you could also look at how often a veteran has prospered here in NE. Chad's in a situation where we don't need to force him out there right now because of the amount of weapons we have. If our receiver situation was similar to the 06 team where we had Gaffney and Reche as our WRs, I'm sure Chad's production would be much greater than what it is at the moment.

Have you given up on him as well?

 

[robbomango]

Didn't jerry rice retire at 40? i know he was more versatile than Moss so losing a step didn't prevent him from going over the middle or blocking etc.

Just curious what's the expiration date on a receiver? I would think at 34 Moss has at least a couple years left.

That being said, seems like we need more youth at receiver. dream offense Defense thread needed to make sense of boards like this.

poor OchoSinking, just want him to be semi productive at this point.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

The Pats are already on the hook for $6M Chad received this season...which surpasses the TOTAL EARNINGS of Welker, Branch, Price, Gronkowski and Hernandez this season... $5.95M. He will be with us again next season either in person or in spirit (dead cap $3.16M). From both a compensation model standpoint as well as system fit standpoint it is in combination one of the more glaring value mistakes Bill has made in his tenure.

Why they extended him rather than simply insist he take a prove it deal like all the other reclamation projects is just beyond me.

This is looking like another AD style misfire by BB who became too enamored of 85 in Cincy. I was not excited about the trade yet I wish Chad the best here, but for that $ I do believe that BB thought he was getting FAR more than he received. Not stepping up and becoming a significant contributor when 81 was hurt was a major failing of Chad's performance.

That said, as the 5th or so option he has additional time to sync up. I've seen no indication that he has thrown in the towel.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

No at this point Chad is depth. Do you understand the concept of DEPTH.\?

He would be a very capable back up for Branch when/if he gets injured. He's a very capable receiver when the Pats need to go to 3 WRs, when one of the TE's might be injured.

I don't ignore indications that he's not up to speed in the offense, but I also recognize that at this point, in real time, he'd be just finishing with TC, trying to UNlearn 10 years of other system.

Granted its legit to question the lack of production he's had this year. But to have the same weekly thread EVERY week for the last 10 weeks is just ludicrous. Why is it that Deion Branch can disappear for 2 games when he's getting 50 odd snaps per game and knows the system inside out, but when Chad disappears for one game with 7 snaps its a major news story.

Chad has disappeared for more than one game and the fact that Branch still warrants the snaps even when he isn't being targeted should tell you something...that he's still contributing something of value despite being shut out, like drawing coverage and throwing key blocks.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

This is looking like another AD style misfire by BB who became too enamored of 85 in Cincy. I was not excited about the trade yet I wish Chad the best here, but for that $ I do believe that BB thought he was getting FAR more than he received. Not stepping up and becoming a significant contributor when 81 was hurt was a major failing of Chad's performance.

That said, as the 5th or so option he has additional time to sync up. I've seen no indication that he has thrown in the towel.

It's pretty clear he's still trying...quite the practice player...but it isn't translating at game speed on the field and it's also starting to become clear Brady is done coaching him up between series and waiting for his personal light bulb to switch on... The pressure on Brady as this season unfolds just won't allow for it. He's got his hands full getting the ball to the guys he can trust.

 

[DaBruinz]

Chad has disappeared for more than one game and the fact that Branch still warrants the snaps even when he isn't being targeted should tell you something...that he's still contributing something of value despite being shut out, like drawing coverage and throwing key blocks.

The difference is that Branch is the #2 WR and Ocho is the #3. That means that Branch will be on the field contributing in the normal 2TE/2WR/1RB set and that Ocho, the 3rd WR will be on the sidelines.

Branch has significantly more time to work with Brady than Ocho has.

That being said, Deus had some good poinits.

We've seen maybe a handful of screens this year, let alone Bubble Screens. We've also seen very little in the way of slants, which is a great way to get players open.

I'd love the Pats to set up a screen that uses Hernandez and Gronk as the 2 lead blockers with 2 of the O-linemen as the next level back and Chad running behind them.. That's the sort of play that would really hit the defense hard..

 

[Rob0729]

Didn't jerry rice retire at 40? i know he was more versatile than Moss so losing a step didn't prevent him from going over the middle or blocking etc.

Just curious what's the expiration date on a receiver? I would think at 34 Moss has at least a couple years left.

That being said, seems like we need more youth at receiver. dream offense Defense thread needed to make sense of boards like this.

poor OchoSinking, just want him to be semi productive at this point.

Jerry Rice completely changed his game to continue his career. He became more of a possession receiver late in his career. I don't see Randy Moss becoming a possession receiver and that really isn't what the Pats need right now.

I think Moss has passed his expiration date personally. He made his living on blazing speed and the ability to go for the ball against any CB or multiple DBs. He has lost a step and he can't fight for the ball what he used to. That makes him go from extrodinary to ordinary.

 

[Rob0729]

Chad has disappeared for more than one game and the fact that Branch still warrants the snaps even when he isn't being targeted should tell you something...that he's still contributing something of value despite being shut out, like drawing coverage and throwing key blocks.

Branch disapeared more over the two game stretch of Buffalo and Oakland. In those two games, he had a combined 1 catch for 4 yards. Yes, Branch has been far more productive than Ochocinco, but you can't act like he hasn't disapeared over a multiple game stretch.

 

[DaBronxPats14]

I think if our WR situation was different say we were in DIRE need of a #3 WR to be clutch or a MUST, Or a bail out for TB when #1 & 2 options were covered game in & game out, but In this case Pats can live with Ocho's slow developement. I think if Ocho was Goofin off or showing no interest in learning O playbook I'm SURE TB & BB would have cut him already. From what I can see Ocho is trying but still hasn't figured it out yet. He isn't a burden to what Pats are doin, "O" has plenty of options now using a running game of course 2 headed TEs. I'm just glad Branch is back. IMO he can always be counted on.