Montana vs Brady

[tests]

So fellow patriot fans, while we wait for the cowboys/pats game this weekend, i thought i would start a thread comparing these two greats.

In your guys opinions, what separates a brady from a montana or vice versa? Which categories is brady "better" in? Is it arm strength? Pocket awareness? intelligence? Are both "pure" pocket passers? Who is the most capable in the pocket? Out of the pocket?

The battlefield is yours

 

[LuthierJr]

4 superbowl rings > 3 superbowl rings

Until that is even

Montana > Brady

That's the most important stat in my opinion. Break it down further and Brady will win the discussion.

 

[patsfan13]

When Brady get SB win #4 the debate ends. 4 rings 5 conference championships trumps 4 rings 4 conf championships. Comparing passing stats in isolation isn't sensible due to the changes in the rules but Brady currently has a much higher winning % than Montana.

Brady: .777 (129-37)
Montana: .711 (133-54)
Bradshaw: .684 (121-56)
Manning: .664 (150-76)
Unitas: .653 (124-66)
Young: .650 (102-55)
Elway: .645 (162-89)
Starr: .644 (105-58)
Favre: .618 (199-123)
Marino: .601 (155-103)


This includes the games this season to date. If Brady keeps this pace up and adds another ring he will clearly be the GOAT.

 

[Mark12]

The general consensus is that Montana is the GOAT for these reasons. His Super Bowl numbers are insane, he led the 49ers to some amazing game winning drives, and obviously 4 rings. It's hard to argue against that, but if Eli doesn't break the sack and Tyree doesnt make that catch, it'd probably be much easier to make a case for Brady.

 

[pherein]

4 superbowl rings > 3 superbowl rings

Until that is even

Montana > Brady

That's the most important stat in my opinion. Break it down further and Brady will win the discussion.

I agree , something bordering on insane to win 4 Super Bowls, as a QB , don't care what your stats are. Its a team sport anyway, and so hard to win just one.

I kind of agree with this break down, because I think everyone forgets, Bart Star is the one you have to beat to be the best ever.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-25-best-postseason-quarterbacks-ever/page/28

 

[tests]

4 superbowl rings > 3 superbowl rings

Until that is even

Montana > Brady

That's the most important stat in my opinion. Break it down further and Brady will win the discussion.

I guess mr.bradshaw is >> brady too right?

 

[tests]

this thread got onto a wrong footing IMO with using the "4 superbowls >> 3 superbowls" card.

You don't have to use stats btw ..

 

[patsfan13]

I agree , something bordering on insane to win 4 Super Bowls, as a QB , don't care what your stats are. Its a team sport anyway, and so hard to win just one.

I kind of agree with this break down, because I think everyone forgets, Bart Star is the one you have to beat to be the best ever.

NFL Playoff Rankings: The 25 Best Postseason Quarterbacks Ever | Bleacher Report

Like to see B Starr getting the respect. I would tend to count him as a pre SB ear QB (even though he played in the first 2 SB's) the winning % is just crazy. The league and his team were much more dependent on the run than the modern game.


BTW if Brady were to win the SB this year he would own the record for most playoff wins by a QB, if he plays say another 4 years he could demolish that record.

 

[tests]

I agree , something bordering on insane to win 4 Super Bowls, as a QB , don't care what your stats are. Its a team sport anyway, and so hard to win just one.

I kind of agree with this break down, because I think everyone forgets, Bart Star is the one you have to beat to be the best ever.

NFL Playoff Rankings: The 25 Best Postseason Quarterbacks Ever | Bleacher Report

just out of curiosity, but did bart starr throw 15 touchdowns in his entire playoff career?

 

[brady199]

The general consensus is that Montana is the GOAT for these reasons. His Super Bowl numbers are insane, he led the 49ers to some amazing game winning drives, and obviously 4 rings. It's hard to argue against that, but if Eli doesn't break the sack and Tyree doesnt make that catch, it'd probably be much easier to make a case for Brady.

The AFC was a Joke for most of the 80's and 90's. SF's real SB was played in the NFC Championship games most years.

IF you've ever watched Montana, you wouldn't have to ask the question of who's the better QB out of the pocket. Have you ever seen "The Catch"?

Brady did make a decent play to Branch last week when he was being flushed out of the pocket. LOL. As he threw that ball (The one Branch almost fumbled on the one yard line), I was thinking oh $hhhhiT!

 

[RodThePat]

Montana is the greatest QB of all time. He is actually better than both Brady and Manning statistically if you adjust for the period he played in. His career rating was 21% better than league average, compared to Brady's 19% and Manning's 18%. He also had a better INT%. Basically, Joe Montana is the best game manager the game will ever see. That term shouldn't be used in derogatory fashion. Joe was deadly efficient and didn't allow teams back into games by making very few mistakes. Oh, his superb play in the clutch helps too.

Even if Brady wins a fourth ring, Montana will absolutely be in the discussion for best QB ever.

 

[Snake Eyes]

I agree , something bordering on insane to win 4 Super Bowls, as a QB , don't care what your stats are. Its a team sport anyway, and so hard to win just one.

I kind of agree with this break down, because I think everyone forgets, Bart Star is the one you have to beat to be the best ever.

NFL Playoff Rankings: The 25 Best Postseason Quarterbacks Ever | Bleacher Report

If you put Bart Starr in his prime, on an offense today, do you think he'd come close to equaling TFB's performance? I doubt it.

Sometimes I think we use the wrong words when discussing the "best", when what we're really talking about is 'most successful'. Before the game that shall not be mentioned BB said that Bert Jones was the best passer he's ever seen, Jones was injured somewhat early on and never got to have a great career, same with Greg Cook.

NFL Videos: Top Ten One Shot Wonders: Greg Cook

When it comes to talent and ability, Brady v. Montana is a very tough one to call, both awesome.

 

[patsfan13]

just out of curiosity, but did bart starr throw 15 touchdowns in his entire playoff career?

15td's 3 ints, guy didn't make mistakes. The one playoff game he lost was IIRC the 60 championship game against the Eagles the clock ran out with the Packers inside the Eagle 10 yd line C Bednarik would, let the guy with the ball get up...

 

[pherein]

just out of curiosity, but did bart starr throw 15 touchdowns in his entire playoff career?

LOL, yes, I know seems sad, but its a team sport, and they ran, and screen played back then. Still shouldn't diminish the accomplishment. I know if Brady passed him in winning %, rings, and only had 14 TDs, Id still say Brady was the best. Because leadership is just as important and passing comp % or anything else that gets you the win. I know Bart Star called most of his plays

 

[pherein]

If you put Bart Starr in his prime, on an offense today, do you think he'd come close to equaling TFB's performance? I doubt it.

Sometimes I think we use the wrong words when discussing the "best", when what we're really talking about is 'most successful'. Before the game that shall not be mentioned BB said that Bert Jones was the best passer he's ever seen, Jones was injured somewhat early on and never got to have a great career, same with Greg Cook.

NFL Videos: Top Ten One Shot Wonders: Greg Cook

When it comes to talent and ability, Brady v. Montana is a very tough one to call, both awesome.

True but I think its impossible to stick players in different era's. How long do you think Brady would have lasted in Bart Stars Era, before he was carted out on a stretcher ? lol

I think Star deserves his spot. Brady would not have survived in Stars Era either. Took a way tougher person to play in those days.

 

[patsfan13]

Montana is the greatest QB of all time. He is actually better than both Brady and Manning statistically if you adjust for the period he played in. His career rating was 21% better than league average, compared to Brady's 19% and Manning's 18%. He also had a better INT%. Basically, Joe Montana is the best game manager the game will ever see. That term shouldn't be used in derogatory fashion. Joe was deadly efficient and didn't allow teams back into games by making very few mistakes. Oh, his superb play in the clutch helps too.

Even if Brady wins a fourth ring, Montana will absolutely be in the discussion for best QB ever.

No a 4th ring puts Brady head and shoulders over Montana. More playoff wins more conference champions, better winning % more wins in reg season.

Also we need to recognize that Brady has had to deal with far more bad weather games than Montana playing n the West as opposed to the North East. Which impacts passing stats.

 

[RodThePat]

No a 4th ring puts Brady head and shoulders over Montana. More playoff wins more conference champions, better winning % more wins in reg season.

Also we need to recognize that Brady has had to deal with far more bad weather games than Montana playing n the West as opposed to the North East. Which impacts passing stats.

One could argue having an unblemished Super Bowl record puts Montana ahead. His postseason stats are also better than Brady's by a fair margin. Just playing devil's advocate here.

 

[robbomango]

One could argue having an unblemished Super Bowl record puts Montana ahead. His postseason stats are also better than Brady's by a fair margin. Just playing devil's advocate here.

Making it to the SB 5 times is better than 4 imo. even if it's 4wins-1 loss

if Brady gets a 4th he's the man

 

[RodThePat]

True but I think its impossible to stick players in different era's. How long do you think Brady would have lasted in Bart Stars Era, before he was carted out on a stretcher ? lol

I think Star deserves his spot.

What is possible, though, is to compare QB performance relative to the league average in their respective eras. Let's exercise that, for a second. I'll list Brady's and Starr's performance in those stats I consider the best measure of a QB's efficiency. I'll be rating them according to the league average in the period of time in which they played, so a QB rating of 110+ means the player had a rating 10% better than the average, with 100 being average. I'm aware stats aren't even close to being a perfect way of analyzing a QB's performance, but this should give a bit of an insight in the comparison between these two players.

Yards per Attempt + Brady: 111 Starr: 111

Touchdown% + Brady: 118 Starr: 98

Interception% + Brady: 114 Starr: 114

Passer Rating + Brady: 119 Starr: 113

So we see they are pretty similar QB's, but Brady is far more efficient at putting points on the board. You have to consider Starr's postseason success, though, but Brady is no slouch in that department either. I'd say Brady is a better quarterback now than Starr ever was, but Bart is in the top 5 discussion without a doubt.

 

[pherein]

What is possible, though, is to compare QB performance relative to the league average in their respective eras. Let's exercise that, for a second. I'll list Brady's and Starr's performance in those stats I consider the best measure of a QB's efficiency. I'll be rating them according to the league average in the period of time in which they played, so a QB rating of 110+ means the player had a rating 10% better than the average, with 100 being average. I'm aware stats aren't even close to being a perfect way of analyzing a QB's performance, but this should give a bit of an insight in the comparison between these two players.

Yards per Attempt + Brady: 111 Starr: 111

Touchdown% + Brady: 118 Starr: 98

Interception% + Brady: 114 Starr: 114

Passer Rating + Brady: 119 Starr: 113

So we see they are pretty similar QB's, but Brady is far more efficient at putting points on the board. You have to consider Starr's postseason success, though, but Brady is no slouch in that department either. I'd say Brady is a better quarterback now than Starr ever was, but Bart is in the top 5 discussion without a doubt.

Wow, really appreciate the work, nice, but how do you account for the kill the QB of Stars Era, to effect his %'s and Bradys comfortable pocket Era of today?
I think you make a great point, but back then Star and other OL,players,etc.. played with MCL sprains, etc.. they had no idea, they were completely free to waste Star,, um and did. Just a thought, because if I was a hurt QB, Id run more. Its why I don't think Eras, mesh.
You think Brady would have completed a season taking that pounding and cheap shots? just a question, I know Brees could not, different Era different kind of QB needed.