The Big Show Receiver Argument...

[DarrylS]

My wife, who is an avid Pats Fan, and I were driving home yesterday listening to the big show yesterday. She queried who is that guy who keeps talking over everyone else, how can anyone understand what they are talking about(referring to Ordway) ??

Enough said, it is just talking heads doing what they do best, talk too much and talk too loud.

I enjoy Patriots Monday, not because of the hosts, but because of Troy Brown and because of Tedy Bruschi... they bring value, all the rest is just BS.

 

[Sivy]

this has got to be a joke?

Best player in the NFL? he is not even better than calvin johnson as a wr or fitzgerald. What was welker doing again outside of the patriots system?

Because, as you can tell every year when "insert superbowl winning qb's name here" is talked about as being better than Brady, in the nfl its what you are doing RIGHT NOW

Johnson is only better than welker in TD, but everything else he is better..Welker is better than Fitzgerald in every way, so he shouldnt even be in the argument.

 

[Hael]

If I had to pick, I'd take Andre Johnson. Guy is just a freak talent and the best in the league when healthy.

Then Fitzgerald, and it's a tossup between Welker and C Johnson.

I like Welker the most, and he's the best slot receiver in the league, but not quite that level.

 

[jays52]

I think a pretty good way of measuring a player's skill is how they do when playing against elite competition. Wes Welker won his matchup against Derelle Revis. I don't remember the last time someone beat Revis throughout an entire game. Welker did this with no doubling on the exterior receivers and on a day when Gronk spent a lot of time playing effectively as a lineman. I don't know if he is as difficult a matchup who can change a game in one play as Andre Johnson, but Wes Welker does take over games. There aren't many players who can do that from the receiver position. Right now Wes Welker is amongst the best players at his position league wide.

 

[letekro]

Welker is a great player, but a dominant outside receiver is more valuable because the threat the outside guy presents is an 80 yd TD, not an 8 yd completion. Again, WElker is great, but it's apples an oranges. Outside of some anamolous plays this year, Welker is not a big play guy, and those are the guys that are most highly valued.

 

[PatsFan24]

Ths means we should bring back Moss. Put down the big $$$ and get his butt back on this team. I say the Pats should offer him 12 million to come back for the rest of this season. Who is with me??

 

[letekro]

I think a pretty good way of measuring a player's skill is how they do when playing against elite competition. Wes Welker won his matchup against Derelle Revis. I don't remember the last time someone beat Revis throughout an entire game. Welker did this with no doubling on the exterior receivers and on a day when Gronk spent a lot of time playing effectively as a lineman. I don't know if he is as difficult a matchup who can change a game in one play as Andre Johnson, but Wes Welker does take over games. There aren't many players who can do that from the receiver position. Right now Wes Welker is amongst the best players at his position league wide.

I have to disagree with that statement about Revis. Revis let him go to the safety on the big play. Other than that incredible floating 3 yarder, I don't remember him catching anything against Revis 1 on 1.

 

[jays52]

I have to disagree with that statement about Revis. Revis let him go to the safety on the big play. Other than that incredible floating 3 yarder, I don't remember him catching anything against Revis 1 on 1.

I remember he got him on a jerk and a couple of other times as well. I'll have to go back and watch but that was one of the impressions that I got leaving the game. Very rarely was Revis playing off Welker, IIRC. I didn't see a single Welker Bracket.

 

[Kid~Brady]

Doesn't matter to me at all where folks rank him. As you say, receivers bring different skill sets to the table and play different positions (slot vs. split), etc. One thing that seems different about Wes this season is he's running more deep routes and seems a bit faster than before. Welker seems to have kicked his game up a notch, but his forte remains working the middle of the field.

I think the talking heads always will favor the flashy deep-threat speed burners vs. workhorses like Wes. The argument always will be made, "Well, he's mostly a possession move-the-chains type of receiver."

Yeah This.

I have noticed him running more deep routes this season. I was very suprised when the camera zooms to the left to see him out there on a deep route lol

 

[The Brandon Five]

Megatron's longest reception this year is 40 yards. Fitzgerald's longest ties Welker's second longest (73 yards). Welker's longest is 99 yards.

He's just a slot receiver who has put up the most fantasy points of any receiver in the league, so he's no match for guys that are taller but don't actually move the ball more.

Now all three have a 73-yard reception. Weird.

 

[Sivy]

Now all three have a 73-yard reception. Weird.

and yet, still not as long as the best WR's in the nfls.

 

[SyN65]

Wes is such a hard receiver to rank among WRs because he's so different than all the other "big name" receivers. (No elite speed/jumping ability, not tall, ...white).

Yet he is the most productive receiver in the game. I think he is in the perfect situation with Brady in this offense that plays to his strengths. (route running, timing, quickness)

IMO you have to rank Megatron, Fitz, and AJ above him. After that you could make a case for Welker. I don't think Welker could take over a game quite like those 3 other guys can.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Welker is a great player, but a dominant outside receiver is more valuable because the threat the outside guy presents is an 80 yd TD, not an 8 yd completion. Again, WElker is great, but it's apples an oranges. Outside of some anamolous plays this year, Welker is not a big play guy, and those are the guys that are most highly valued.

Welker 2008, 16 games: 13 receptions of 20+ yards (previous best)
Welker 2011, 5 games: 13 receptions of 20+ yards

That word. . . . I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

[ivanvamp]

I've been listening to the argument, and Ordway deserves a congratulations. I can't recall when I've ever heard anyone put forth a more ridiculous argument than what he's done.

The whole argument was so stupid. Glenn was out of sorts because Michael wouldn't say Welker was a top 5 receiver, though he (Holley) was willing to say he was a top 7. And for that, Ordway went out of his mind.

Look, Welker is a *great* receiver. There's no objective way to deny this. His numbers are fantastic. He's on a record pace this year.

But other guys are also *great* receivers. Calvin Johnson's numbers are staggering (9 td in just 5 games so far). Desean Jackson is ridiculous. Andre Johnson (though he's hurt right now) is almost impossible to guard. Larry Fitzgerald is unbelievable. Greg Jennings does everything well. Who wouldn't want Dez Bryant on their team?

I mean, there is a long list of outstanding receivers. It's so hard to tell who, exactly, is #1, #2, #3, etc. Isn't it enough to say that Welker is phenomenal and that I'm really, really glad he's on the Patriots? Why does it have to be more complicated than that?

 

[ivanvamp]

Welker may be the best PLAYER in the NFL right now, not just wr

It just don't understand what Brady and him have to do to get the respect they deserve..seems like people are always trying to find people they can say are better.

What!? Brady is the only player in NFL history to win the MVP award unanimously. Who on earth doesn't give him the respect he deserves?

 

[RIpats88]

hes currently on pace to break jerry Rice's yards in a season record! all while on a team with several other good receivers

 

[RodThePat]

Welker is a great receiver, but if anyone here would reject a straight up Megatron/Fitzgerald/Andre Johnson for Wes trade proposal, they should get their head examined.

 

[condon84]

Welker is great and all, but Brady is the reason why he is considered elite. Brady is the reason Gaffney looked like a good receiver, Caldwell an acceptable receiver and why Branch has become relevant again when he came back to NE. You stick Welker in Detroit with Stafford, will he be as productive or effective? Meanwhile, you stick Megatron with Brady, it'll be Randy Moss 07 all over again.

That being said, I love Wes and hope we resign him.

 

[RIpats88]

Welker is great and all, but Brady is the reason why he is considered elite. Brady is the reason Gaffney looked like a good receiver, Caldwell an acceptable receiver and why Branch has become relevant again when he came back to NE. You stick Welker in Detroit with Stafford, will he be as productive or effective? Meanwhile, you stick Megatron with Brady, it'll be Randy Moss 07 all over again.

That being said, I love Wes and hope we resign him.

thats a solid point, branch was basically an average receiver in seattle...comes back here and is an 800yard receiver because he understands the system and knows what tom brady is thinking...and where to be at the right time

NE is a very system based offense to get guys open vs. teams where its "throw the ball up and let the receiver go get it"

 

[VJCPatriot]

Excuse me, have you been watching Welker play this season at all? he already has 13 plays for 20+ yards in the first 5 games including a 99 yard TD reception. Welker can and DOES make big plays in the passing game. Where he lines up doesn't matter. He creates matchup problems and we move him around to exploit the weaknesses of defenses. He has the most receiving yards and production of any receiver in the NFL. The only receiver who is even close to Welker right now is Calvin Johnson and that's because he has had an absolutely torrid TD catching feast.

Wes Welker is a top 5 WR in the NFL. He doesn't deserve to be ranked any less. And everybody talks about deep speed but nobody talks about the separation, agility, and quick twitch speed that Welker possesses that makes him nearly uncoverable. These are elite skills and physical abilities that Welker posseses. And people rarely discusses his hands which are fantastic. A fast 40 time and freakish height are not the only athletic qualities that a WR needs to succeed in the NFL.

Welker is a great player, but a dominant outside receiver is more valuable because the threat the outside guy presents is an 80 yd TD, not an 8 yd completion. Again, WElker is great, but it's apples an oranges. Outside of some anamolous plays this year, Welker is not a big play guy, and those are the guys that are most highly valued.