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Ask Vic with some post Pats @ Jags comments


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Box_O_Rocks

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http://www.jaguars.com/News/Article.aspx?id=5754
Jay from Pleasanton, CA: Does one play really decide the outcome of a game or is it more a combination of plays, drives and results that determine a game? Do you think the fumble call on Garrard made that big a difference? I think, overall, the Jags played poor offense most of the day and that impacted the defensive play as the defense was out on the field far too long (see time of possession). The result is the Jags put themselves in the position that one call or one play made a huge impact and when you put yourself into that position, you lose more often than win in the NFL. Do you agree or disagree and why?
Vic: I agree completely with what you’re saying. The Jaguars were outplayed. They out-rushed the Patriots, but 74 of the Jaguars’ 144 yards rushing came on that one pop-up touchdown run by Maurice Jones-Drew, which would’ve been stopped at the line of scrimmage had the Patriots defender not decided to play official. Of everything that happened in that game, it bothered me most that the Patriots ran for 117 yards. I don’t think the defense had a good day. The Patriots had 14-and-a-half minutes more time of possession and had 10-point leads twice in the second half. Still, with 1:55 to play in the game, the Jaguars appeared to be headed for nothing worse than a game-tying field goal attempt. That’s a fact. I can’t help but think Bill Belichick might’ve traded places with the Jaguars at that point. The Jags had the ball at their 45-yard line and the Patriots defense on its heels. That’s where the one play enters. That one play saved the win for the Patriots. Jarvis Green made an outstanding play. He knocked the ball loose. I acknowledge everything you’re saying, but you can’t tell me the Patriots’ hearts weren’t in their throats with 1:55 to play in that game. I still can’t help but wonder if the right call was made. I’m going to check into it.
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Mikey from Lake City, FL: I always thought you were a little over the top with your love of Tom Brady but, after watching Sunday's game, I saw a field general. He took no more than what we gave him and, in time of trouble, he didn't panic. Maybe you really do know what you're talking about.
Vic: Tom Brady is the best quarterback in the game, period. Nobody takes charge of a game the way he does. His 99 yards passing in the first half may have been the best 99 yards passing I’ve ever seen, and Brady wasn’t even on his game. He made mistakes late in the game, such as not seeing Troy Brown wide open in the right flat on a third-down play, and not scrambling up the middle for a first down instead of throwing the ball away. He threw the ball high on a couple of occasions, too, but he was still magnificent. And you know what? He’s not going to the Pro Bowl. What a joke.
http://www.jaguars.com/News/Article.aspx?id=5759
Skeeter from Green Cove Springs, FL: I noticed that Brady spent a lot of time in the shotgun; 45 out of 70 total offensive plays, 20 times on first down, 15 times on second down and only 10 times on third down. In my opinion, this kept the Jags defense off balance and allowed Brady to survey the field better while affecting the Jags defense’s ability to pressure the QB. By contrast, the Jaguars were in the shotgun 22 of 46 offensive plays; four times on first down, five times on second down and 13 times on third down. What's your take on this?
Vic: Skeeter, he’s Tom Brady. You can put him in any formation you want. Players, Skeeter. Always players, not plays.
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Ted from Jacksonville: Do you think Bill Belichick will be inclined to rest some of his starters this week against the Titans, thus increasing the chances of them beating the Patriots?
Vic: It’s Belichick’s track record to give his team a bye week whenever he can, and I understand why any coach would want to do that. His only concern is doing what’s best for his team. He has to watch himself here, however, because he could move ahead of the Colts in the playoff seeding with a win over Tennessee and a Colts loss to Miami. I’m sure Belichick doesn’t expect the Colts to lose, but can he be sure the Colts won’t lose? If he tanks it in Tennessee and the Colts lose, he’d be ripped nationally. That third-seed position is big, especially for the Patriots, who I have to believe would love to get a shot at Mangini and the Jets.
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Sam from Jacksonville: In your article “Good Cheer?†you state, “there is no doubt in my mind that Garrard was attempting to throw a pass,†and then later contradict with, “in fact, I thought Garrard was bringing his hand back toward his body.†Well, was he attempting to throw it or was he bringing the ball back to his body?
Vic: They’re the same thing, as defined by the tuck rule, to which I referred. When a quarterback is bringing the ball back to his body, he is to be considered in the act of attempting a pass. That’s why I thought the wrong call was made. I have a call into the league, seeking clarification of Walt Anderson’s call. It’s the holidays week, so we have to be patient.
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Jeff from Mayport, FL: I know you hate talk of individual accolades at this time of year, but I found something interesting. Maurice Jones-Drew, is third in the league in total touchdowns by a non-quarterback.
Vic: You’re right, I hate talk of individual accolades. I accepted a long time ago that individual awards are nothing more than popularity contests all sports leagues allow because they help market the product. I don’t need to be sold on football, therefore, I ignore individual awards. If Tom Brady isn’t on the Pro Bowl team, then the whole thing is a farce. Brady was asked last week for his reaction to not making the Pro Bowl, and he said the only Bowl that matters to him is the Super Bowl. That’s what I’m talkin’ about.
 
"He’s not going to the Pro Bowl. What a joke."

Man, I want to play San Diego in the playoffs REAL BAD.
 
A late edition:
http://www.jaguars.com/News/Article.aspx?id=5761
Dean Blandino of the league officiating office responded on Wednesday to my inquiry about the David Garrard fumble late in Sunday’s game. Dean said that in reviewing the play it was: “too close to tell if the hand was coming forward with control (of the ball) or the ball was loose before it came forward. Had they ruled pass on the field, I would want them to stay with the call on the field, as well. It was that close.” I went back to the TV tape of the game. I saw three TV replay angles. The first two were shot head-on Garrard and did not provide enough evidence to overturn the call. The third replay angle, however, was shot into Garrard’s right side and, in my opinion, offered conclusive proof Garrard’s right hand and the ball had moved forward before Jarvis Green knocked the ball loose from Garrard’s grasp. I also watched the Jaguars’ broadcasting department’s tape, which was not available to referee Walt Anderson, and it offered an even better angle of the play and more conclusive proof that it was an incomplete pass. Dean has been a great help on these plays. If he says it was too close to overturn, then I believe him. I just don’t agree.
 

Simply considering the fact that Vic writes for Jaguars.com, you have to take his assessment with a grain of salt.

The way I saw it, Garrard had the ball ready to throw, but Jarvis' arm coming down on the strip sack pushed it forward, giving the illusion of the arm moving forward.

While the tuck rule does not apply, it is a very similar play to that of January 2001. Brady's arm was pushed foward into his left hand, giving the illusion of a tuck.
 
Why does everyone seem to forget that to overturn the call on the field there must be IRREFUTABLE visual evidence to the contrary? Not just some angle that seems to show something 'possibly' different. In this instance I saw the game on a 56" HDTV - better than the on-field refs have. The '3rd replay shot to Garrard's right' does NOT give you all the depth information to make an irrefutable decision. I knew that the call would not be overturned, figuring 80-20 in our favor where 20% is a generous allowance for an incompetent or biased ref who just does the wrong thing.
 
I thought it was a fumble. The first angle I saw, I said I thought it would be overturned into an incpmplete pass. But the last angle, it looked like the ball moved in (and starting out of) his hand before he tried to throw (regardless of whether Jarvis was the one who moved his arm forward or not).
 
Tuck rule, shmuck rule, who the heck cares. The game's over. Same as Denver last year and the PI call and the TD vs. safety. Good teams don't put themselves in a position to let the refs decide.

All that aside, you gotta love Vic's comments. "Players, Skeeter. Always players, not plays." This Jax writer has some serious man love for our Brady and you have to respect that.

Thanks for the link, Box.
 
Tuck rule, shmuck rule, who the heck cares. The game's over. Same as Denver last year and the PI call and the TD vs. safety. Good teams don't put themselves in a position to let the refs decide.

All that aside, you gotta love Vic's comments. "Players, Skeeter. Always players, not plays." This Jax writer has some serious man love for our Brady and you have to respect that.

Thanks for the link, Box.

The part edited out was where Skeeter complained about the play calling of Josh McDaniels... :bricks:
 
Why does everyone seem to forget that to overturn the call on the field there must be IRREFUTABLE visual evidence to the contrary? Not just some angle that seems to show something 'possibly' different. In this instance I saw the game on a 56" HDTV - better than the on-field refs have. The '3rd replay shot to Garrard's right' does NOT give you all the depth information to make an irrefutable decision. I knew that the call would not be overturned, figuring 80-20 in our favor where 20% is a generous allowance for an incompetent or biased ref who just does the wrong thing.

How can anyone in America who has even casually watched more than a couple NFL games not have the words "Irrefutable visual evidence" inescapably inscribed on their brains (along with other more useless gems such as "the ground can't cause the fumble" and "the most underrated...")???
 
I almost wrote to Vic but didn't.

Beyond the fumble/tuck rule play is the fact that the Jags put themselves in the position to miss the playoffs because they dropped two games to the moribund Houston Texans and Tennessee's 98 yards of total offense.

Whether it was a fumble or not- it was ONE play. To make that big a deal of it cheapens the overall premise when you look at what JAX did to be in a situation where their postseason hopes hinged on one offensive drive against one of the league's best defenses.

Vic's a homer, and I got it. But- one fact he can't dispute is that if you put yourself in the position to depend on a replay decision to determine your fate, then you've probably not done enough to get ahead.
 
I almost wrote to Vic but didn't.

Beyond the fumble/tuck rule play is the fact that the Jags put themselves in the position to miss the playoffs because they dropped two games to the moribund Houston Texans and Tennessee's 98 yards of total offense.

Whether it was a fumble or not- it was ONE play. To make that big a deal of it cheapens the overall premise when you look at what JAX did to be in a situation where their postseason hopes hinged on one offensive drive against one of the league's best defenses.

Vic's a homer, and I got it. But- one fact he can't dispute is that if you put yourself in the position to depend on a replay decision to determine your fate, then you've probably not done enough to get ahead.
Your not jay from Pleasanton, CA? I'm getting people confused again.
 
Good stuff,Box....thanks

I thought it was a fumble,but it could have gone either
way.The ruling on the field clinched it.

I also think Garrad's "intent" was a factor with the officials............i.e.He looked like he was running almost parallel to escape the rush,not cokking the ball preparing to pass.

Also,on the Ingram "spear" of Tom Brady.....many times I've seen officials reluctant to throw a 2nd flag on a player,who has already received a major personal foul penulty.This would have resulted in the ejection of the player and I think they kept the flag in their pockets,for this reason.
 
Your not jay from Pleasanton, CA? I'm getting people confused again.

Touche...

My point to Vic would have been less about last week's game and more about the lost games to Houston and Tennessee (three losses in the same season to teams all named Houston at some point in their existence...things that make you go hmmmm).

Instead of focusing on the Pats loss, Vic and the HC of the JJ should be mad at themselves for blowing opportunities against easier marks. They lost to the AFCE champs- whining about the fumble is a symptom of what has plagued that team all year: no accountability to themselves for failing to beat the teams behind them in the standings.
 
Touche...

My point to Vic would have been less about last week's game and more about the lost games to Houston and Tennessee (three losses in the same season to teams all named Houston at some point in their existence...things that make you go hmmmm).

Instead of focusing on the Pats loss, Vic and the HC of the JJ should be mad at themselves for blowing opportunities against easier marks. They lost to the AFCE champs- whining about the fumble is a symptom of what has plagued that team all year: no accountability to themselves for failing to beat the teams behind them in the standings.
I think that was brought up in one of his Q&As, but since it wasn't Patriots' related I passed and left the Jags' fans to stew over their season with Vic.
 
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