Pass Defense -Not as Bad as You Think

[Deus Irae]

They are allowing 139 yds per game against the run. Teams are using the run to set up the pass against them which puts Samuel and Aso at a disadvantage while committing to run support. Those LB's are not very good and either are there guys in the middle of the line. What I will agree with is sacks are sometimes an inflated stat. Many here are driven to them like flys on $^&*. Philly does lead the league with 15 sacks which isn't saying much considering the amount of points and yards allowed +wins so far. You would figure with 15 sacks you would have more than 2 forced fumbles?

Wilfork has as many INTS as their whole team for whatever reason those sacks aren't equating to turnovers or stopping drives. While our crap defense that can't sack the QB has 7 ints which completely turned the tide back to our favor are a very good 3-1.

As many have stated maybe defenses can't evolve fast enough to completely stop opposing offenses. Might be true but at the end of the day as long as you outscore the other team and win the game your defense did enough to win the game.

Philly is also playing a lot of zone in the secondary, and that's not what Aso does, since he's a man coverage DB. That's caused a lot of problems.

 

[Patriot Missile]

I wanted to see one thing on the weekend and the Pats D shutdown McFadden.

I wanted the same thing. Limiting Mcfadden to 75 yards on the ground was huge for this defense. Blah blah blah total yards. Some of these fans are the most depressed people on the planet. You would figure they might be a little closer from stepping off the ledge after last Sundays win?

 

[Patriot Missile]

Philly is also playing a lot of zone in the secondary, and that's not what Aso does, since he's a man coverage DB. That's caused a lot of problems.

On point right there. Why spend all that money for the best CB in the league and not garner his strengths? Very familiar tale over here as McCourty looked a little more like his old self in zone as opposed to Man.

 

[ayatollah]

i want a sip of what some of you are drinking. With that said, its only 4 games, anything is possible.

 

[Deus Irae]

On point right there. Why spend all that money for the best CB in the league and not garner his strengths? Very familiar tale over here as McCourty looked a little more like his old self in zone as opposed to Man.

Aso for McCourty..... win/win

 

[ausbacker]

I wanted the same thing. Limiting Mcfadden to 75 yards on the ground was huge for this defense. Blah blah blah total yards. Some of these fans are the most depressed people on the planet. You would figure they might be a little closer from stepping off the ledge after last Sundays win?

It was reasonable to suggest that McFadden is the Raiders best player and the reason the offense goes. The Patriots limited his influence to 1 big run and contained him for the rest of the game. Apart from the junktime drive by Campbell (which I was disgusted with and ruined a more than decent defensive performance), forcing Campbell to win the game for the Raiders was exactly what the Patriots needed to do, and they did it perfectly.

It's funny the more I complain about the Patriots defense the better they seem to be getting. Weird.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Aso for McCourty..... win/win

In a heart beat.

 

[Observer]

The conventional wisdom (and opinion of many on this board) is that NE has far and away the worst pass defense in the league. The customary ranking is based on passing yards allowed. NE ranks last with 1475 yards through 4 games.

Let's compare NE with the Dream Team Philadelphia Eagles.

The Eagles have given up 871 yards passing through week 4, ranking them 11th in the league. Obviously better than the embarrassingly woeful Patriots, right?

The Eagles superior pass rush (15 sacks, ranked #1) has to be a huge advantage relative to NE (6 sacks, tied for 25th). And the Eagles feature CBs Asante Samuel and Nmandi Asomugha, widely considered to be the most talented tandem in football.

Here's the surprise ending.

Opponents passer rating: Eagles 106.7 (32nd) NE 91.0 (20th)

TDs allowed: Eagles 10 (32nd) NE 7 (T 10th)

Interceptions: Eagles 2 (24th) NE 7 (T 3rd).​

The Eagles have the talent and the pass rush that the Patriots lack yet the results are demonstrably worse in the most important areas.

(By the way, old friend Asante Samuel was brutal last week, giving up an easy TD to Josh Morgan and getting run over by Frank Gore for the game winning TD. This prompted a memorable (and ironic) quote from none other than Deion Sanders: "If you can't cover, you have to tackle. If you can't tackle, you have to cover. But you can't not do both." Who still misses Asante?)

One other quick note - guess who has the 31st ranked pass defense with 1343 yards allowed. That would be the consensus best team in the league Green Bay Packers. What do they have in common with NE? They're just about always ahead.

In today's NFL, the rules are stacked against the defense. The heightened protections for QBs and "defenseless" receivers have clearly exacerbated the situation. Most teams are having trouble playing pass defense.

Things aren't always as simple as they appear. Recognizing that pass defense is definitely an area the 2011 Patriots must improve, I'm not all that convinced that the situation is as dire as many here believe.

Looks like the Philly defense is pretty bad too. The thing that people are concerned about is not that our defense is in such dire straits that it is the worst in the league etc. but that the situation is just as dire as it was last year.

Satisfactory performance for most NE fans is equal to "capable of winning the superbowl". We know last year's defense was not and all indications are that this year is not better than the last. That is the main thing people are concerned about. Not whether we have two dozen sacks or whatever but rather can the defense step up in crunch time? Giving up major passing yardage throughout all games does little to convince that they will get going when the going gets tough.

As you point out, the Eagles defense is worse than ours; so why compare to them? Clearly nobody should be using them as a barometer and I don't think anyone has. Looks like they got the pass rush right but clearly they have got plenty of other stuff wrong. Similarly we have done many things right but pass defense is not one of them. Whether or not the eagles have bad pass defense is irrelevant.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Looks like the Philly defense is pretty bad too. The thing that people are concerned about is not that our defense is in such dire straits that it is the worst in the league etc. but that the situation is just as dire as it was last year.

Satisfactory performance for most NE fans is equal to "capable of winning the superbowl". We know last year's defense was not and all indications are that this year is not better than the last. That is the main thing people are concerned about. Not whether we have two dozen sacks or whatever but rather can the defense step up in crunch time? Giving up major passing yardage throughout all games does little to convince that they will get going when the going gets tough.

As you point out, the Eagles defense is worse than ours; so why compare to them? Clearly nobody should be using them as a barometer and I don't think anyone has. Looks like they got the pass rush right but clearly they have got plenty of other stuff wrong. Similarly we have done many things right but pass defense is not one of them. Whether or not the eagles have bad pass defense is irrelevant.

So do we have to use Baltimore as the gold standard? It seems there are about 5 decent defenses out there and a lot of crummy ones.

 

[Observer]

So do we have to use Baltimore as the gold standard? It seems there are about 5 decent defenses out there and a lot of crummy ones.

If you must have a gold standard, then sure, pick whichever you like. Even if you were to pick a gold standard, it would most likely not be the Patriots. My point is that there need not be a gold standard, we can evaluate our defense on its own merits.

Do they do a good job stopping running plays? Yes. No complaints.

Do they do a good job in the red zone? Decent. Not too much of a concern.

Do they do a good job stopping passing plays? No. There is much room for improvement.

 

[Major **********]

Pass Defense -Not as Bad as You Think

That ain't saying much.

 

[Hael]

The pats line is getting there, I agree with pepper. We've had some tackling issues, and I think our DBS are making it hard on themselves with weak jams.

Ironically, our best on the line DB is Ras. But still our DBS are also close to the ball. They just haven't been able to make plays on it.

Biggest problem is bad tackling angles, inconsistent safety play and bad cover lbs.

 

[Darolyn72]

This is an awful defense without talent. You don't win argument by using relativism. Philadelphia has nothing to do with the Patriots. That being said, the Eagles have had some game where they have played defense, the Pats have had none. But, once again fanboys, this week is an opportunity for the Pats. Poor offensive line of the Jets, limited running game, adequate wide receivers and average Quarterback. If he pulls a Chad Henne and comes in and beats you on your home field. Well, everyone won't have to schedule around Sunday's in January.

 

[ausbacker]

This is an awful defense without talent. You don't win argument by using relativism. Philadelphia has nothing to do with the Patriots. That being said, the Eagles have had some game where they have played defense, the Pats have had none. But, once again fanboys, this week is an opportunity for the Pats. Poor offensive line of the Jets, limited running game, adequate wide receivers and average Quarterback. If he pulls a Chad Henne and comes in and beats you on your home field. Well, everyone won't have to schedule around Sunday's in January.

I didn't bother reading past the first sentence given your lack of recognition for Vince Wilfork.

 

[Observer]

I didn't bother reading past the first sentence given your lack of recognition for Vince Wilfork.

I know! He is our best lineman and defensive back.

 

[Patriot Missile]

This is an awful defense without talent. You don't win argument by using relativism. Philadelphia has nothing to do with the Patriots. That being said, the Eagles have had some game where they have played defense, the Pats have had none. But, once again fanboys, this week is an opportunity for the Pats. Poor offensive line of the Jets, limited running game, adequate wide receivers and average Quarterback. If he pulls a Chad Henne and comes in and beats you on your home field. Well, everyone won't have to schedule around Sunday's in January.

Go ahead and paint it as bad as you want. You'll cry after every game regardless if we win or lose. Philadelphia has nothing to do with the Patriots and yet our records are opposite. Give it up already. Our offense is right up there in the top 3, can't help the fact they are so damn good. I think some can agree our defense is terrible but has shown resiliency ] in the same at times. They come up with timely turnovers which change the tide of the game and their red zone defense is impressive. Sure we could improve a lot and maybe some returning starters will help out.

 

[kudzif]

The conventional wisdom (and opinion of many on this board) is that NE has far and away the worst pass defense in the league. The customary ranking is based on passing yards allowed. NE ranks last with 1475 yards through 4 games.

Let's compare NE with the Dream Team Philadelphia Eagles.

The Eagles have given up 871 yards passing through week 4, ranking them 11th in the league. Obviously better than the embarrassingly woeful Patriots, right?

The Eagles superior pass rush (15 sacks, ranked #1) has to be a huge advantage relative to NE (6 sacks, tied for 25th). And the Eagles feature CBs Asante Samuel and Nmandi Asomugha, widely considered to be the most talented tandem in football.

Here's the surprise ending.

Opponents passer rating: Eagles 106.7 (32nd) NE 91.0 (20th)

TDs allowed: Eagles 10 (32nd) NE 7 (T 10th)

Interceptions: Eagles 2 (24th) NE 7 (T 3rd).​

The Eagles have the talent and the pass rush that the Patriots lack yet the results are demonstrably worse in the most important areas.

(By the way, old friend Asante Samuel was brutal last week, giving up an easy TD to Josh Morgan and getting run over by Frank Gore for the game winning TD. This prompted a memorable (and ironic) quote from none other than Deion Sanders: "If you can't cover, you have to tackle. If you can't tackle, you have to cover. But you can't not do both." Who still misses Asante?)

One other quick note - guess who has the 31st ranked pass defense with 1343 yards allowed. That would be the consensus best team in the league Green Bay Packers. What do they have in common with NE? They're just about always ahead.

In today's NFL, the rules are stacked against the defense. The heightened protections for QBs and "defenseless" receivers have clearly exacerbated the situation. Most teams are having trouble playing pass defense.

Things aren't always as simple as they appear. Recognizing that pass defense is definitely an area the 2011 Patriots must improve, I'm not all that convinced that the situation is as dire as many here believe.

You are forgetting Eagles have an o-line coach as their D-Coordinator. Maybe it's me but I think that might have something to do with why they are not doing great. No matter how good their players are if you have a crap coordinator you wo'nt do so well.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

The conventional wisdom (and opinion of many on this board) is that NE has far and away the worst pass defense in the league. The customary ranking is based on passing yards allowed. NE ranks last with 1475 yards through 4 games.

Let's compare NE with the Dream Team Philadelphia Eagles.

...

Great post...... Actually, another interesting thing about this defense. They may give up gobs of yards, but they are pretty stout when they need to be.

Consider this.

There have been 45 offensive drives against this defense.

20 of them have gone for 50 yards or more. (44% of them, which is high).

Of those 20....... 11 (or 55%) of them have resulted in 3 points or less scored.

6 of them (30%) have resulted in no points (either Int, turnover on downs, end of reg, etc...)

Think about that........ There are usually between 10-12 drives a game. If you went in knowing that the Defense is gonna allow you to drive over 50 yards 4 or 5 times, your gonna be salivating, until you learn that your probably not gonna score on more then 2 of them, plus the occasional FG.

It deceptively better then you think when it comes to allowing points.

Teams can move quite effectively...... but once the field get's short...... it get much more difficult to get in there.

 

[Joker]

Great post...... Actually, another interesting thing about this defense. They may give up gobs of yards, but they are pretty stout when they need to be.

Consider this.

There have been 45 offensive drives against this defense.

20 of them have gone for 50 yards or more. (44% of them, which is high).

Of those 20....... 11 (or 55%) of them have resulted in 3 points or less scored.

6 of them (30%) have resulted in no points (either Int, turnover on downs, end of reg, etc...)

Think about that........ There are usually between 10-12 drives a game. If you went in knowing that the Defense is gonna allow you to drive over 50 yards 4 or 5 times, your gonna be salivating, until you learn that your probably not gonna score on more then 2 of them, plus the occasional FG.

It deceptively better then you think when it comes to allowing points.

Teams can move quite effectively...... but once the field get's short...... it get much more difficult to get in there.

Look man....STOP using facts and get back to jerking your knees...this rational analysis is starting to really pi$$ me off...:steamed::steamed::steamed:

 

[patfanken]

Re: Pep Johnson "more than pleased" with the pass rush

The pass defense has been awful, and receivers have been getting burned deep plenty, meaning QBs have time in the pocket and are dropping more than 3 steps on plenty of occasions.

Instead of investing foolish energy into pretending everyone is seeing something that's not actually happening, the homers should be spending their energy being happy that the team is 3-1 despite the poor play of the defense, and hoping for significant improvement over the course of the year instead of the sort of window dressing we saw in 2010.

vLast year apparently wasn't enough for some of you to figure it out.

That's right, we're all idiots while you are a paragon of football intelligence. Congratulations DI, you just set the record for self congratulatory pomposity. BTW you might want to get your shoulder checked, I'm sure its dislocated from all the pats on the back you give yourself.