idle thoughts - knee jerk reactions....

[DarrylS]

While I agree completely, and your post bears repeating I'm PMing Ian to have you banned for even mentioning you-know-who.

Or "he whose name shall never be mentioned", now there is a blast from the past..

 

[everlong]

Welker 9/158 1TD
Everybody else 7/69 1TD

As much as I love Welker and have posted on his epic pace that needs to change for the long term success of this team. I know AH is out but still. Branch has been invisible since AH got hurt and 85 an afterthought the entire year.

The touchdown pass to Branch was brilliant and set up by the success of the running game. They need to stay balanced and then use play action to their advantage. This week against the Jets that will be clutch.

Ridley is the future and BJGE the perfect understudy. I hope they run at Cromartie and expose him even more this week. More Ridley every week.

The Raiders were 8/13 on 3rd down and had 504 yards of total offense. Jason Campbell threw at a 65% clip and 344 yards. The season is only a quarter over but to this point the defense is an epic fail. If they don't fix it they are going nowhere in the playoffs.

3rd-19, NE22 11:00 J. Campbell passed to K. Boss down the middle for 12 yard gain

3rd-10, OAK20 4:28 J. Campbell passed to D. Heyward-Bey to the left for 16 yard gain

3rd-5, OAK41 2:42 J. Campbell passed to M. Bush down the middle for 11 yard gain

3rd-1, NE1 10:20 M. Bush rushed to the left for 1 yard touchdown. S. Janikowski made PAT

3rd-3, OAK21 6:05 J. Campbell passed to D. Heyward-Bey to the left for 28 yard gain

3rd-8, OAK31 9:27 J. Campbell passed to D. Hagan down the middle for 10 yard gain

3rd-4, NE33 7:16 J. Campbell passed to D. Hagan to the right for 4 yard gain

3rd-1, NE20 5:20 M. Bush rushed up the middle for 5 yard gain

3rd-10, NE15 3:59 J. Campbell passed to M. Bush down the middle for 7 yard gain

3rd-8, OAK44 12:10 J. Campbell passed to D. Heyward-Bey to the left for 13 yard gain

3rd-12, NE45 10:30 New England committed 15 yard penalty (Chung)

3rd-3, OAK27 6:49 J. Campbell incomplete pass to the left

3rd-3, OAK27 3:51 J. Campbell incomplete pass to the left
4th-3, OAK27 3:43 J. Campbell incomplete pass to the left


That's not Rodgers, Brees or a healthy Manning.

Up 31-13 This sequence drove me nuts.

1st-10, NE25 6:31 B. Green-Ellis rushed to the left for 6 yard gain
2nd-4, NE31 5:49 B. Green-Ellis rushed to the right for 6 yard gain
1st-10, NE37 5:06 B. Green-Ellis rushed to the right for no gain
2nd-10, NE37 4:22 T. Brady incomplete pass down the middle
3rd-10, NE37 4:19 T. Brady incomplete pass to the left

So they finally stop him for no gain and you're up 18 and you start passing again. Brady got lit up on both of those pass plays. There was zero need to pass there. I will say they started out the same the next drive and I was shaking my head why but they rectified it.

1st-10, OAK27 3:36 T. Brady incomplete pass to the right
2nd-10, OAK26 3:30 S. Ridley rushed to the left for 3 yard gain
3rd-7, OAK23 3:21 S. Ridley rushed to the right for 20 yard gain
1st-3, OAK3 3:17 B. Green-Ellis rushed up the middle for no gain
2nd-3, OAK3 2:33 B. Green-Ellis rushed up the middle for 1 yard gain
3rd-2, OAK2 1:51 S. Ridley rushed to the right for 1 yard gain
4th-1, OAK1 1:18 S. Ridley rushed up the middle for no gain

PLEASE run the clock out and don't expose him to more hits when you're up that big.

In defense of the defense I will say that crew put away the flags and were letting the Raiders line hold at will. I cannot remember so many take downs being let go one after the next. Wilfork and Carter twice each were epic.

Haynesworth, Wright, Bodden, Dowling and now Mayo down. Hard to build continuity with all of these injuries. I know it's been killed ad nauseum on here but outside of Chung the safety play is flat out bad.

 

[PlainOldEd]

The First thing the Jets will do is put Revis on Welker. Rivas will hold Welker all day and get away with it like he always does. The Pats are still in serious trouble! Now with Mayo out, ouch. The Raiders went 90 yards in two plays, granted it was the end of the game, but that is exactly it, at this time you are suppose to let the guy catch the ball in front of you and tackle him in bounds and make them burn up the clock, no 90 yards in two plays!!!!

The Pats offense is looking better, and Riddley is looking good, but Woodhead went out of yesterday's game and did not return. Does that mean Vareen??? Unless Dirty Sanchez turns the ball over three times, I have a hard time seeing the Pats winning. Not only can't their defense stop anyone, is it me, or is EVERYONE open in the Pats secondary?? I can't even tell if they are playing man or zone! Everyone is open by ten yeards.

Once again, not even a hint of a pass rush. The Ravens have terrible corners, but Sanchez was literally ducking for his life. Still no hope in sight for this defense, no pass rush anywhere, nothing even close. You figure the Pats have (had) big leads in each of their four games, and still have a few last minute sacks and that's it. They don't even have pressures. Campbell was untouched yesterday, he was something like 8 for 8 on third downs. Feel good if you want to, BUT, unless something drastically changes, the Pats aren't winning anything with this defense...

OK, the Pats may have some issues, but are you seriously saying that they can't beat the Jets at home? Did you watch the game last night? The Jets D didn't exactly look like worldbeaters either, and their offense is well..... offensive.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

OK, the Pats may have some issues, but are you seriously saying that they can't beat the Jets at home? Did you watch the game last night? The Jets D didn't exactly look like worldbeaters either, and their offense is well..... offensive.

I'm not saying that they can't beat the Jets (they can), what I'm saying is that their is no way this defense can stand up to a Drew Brees/Aaroon Rodgers led attack. If your gaol is to win the SUperbowl, then it can't happen.

 

[RIpats88]

I thought Ochocinco looked good yesterday...he only had 19snaps....but he ran a REALLY NICE route that lead to the welker touch down....and was 3-3 when targeted(although a penalty took away the 3rd)..with more opportunities I think he wouldve been more productive....he got 2 1'st downs

he's going to be needed against the Jets next week(especially if Hernandez is still out)...because Revis will be on welker and cromartie should be able to shut down branch..

meaning, its a game for Ocho/Gronkowski to step it up in the passing game....and IMO this is what Ocho was brought in for....teams with multiple good corners who can limit Welker/shut down branch...where he can step in and pick up the slack in a way that Tate wasnt able to

The Jets cant defend the Run...so hopefully we throw alot of Ridley/Green-ellis at them

 

[borg]

OK, the Pats may have some issues, but are you seriously saying that they can't beat the Jets at home? Did you watch the game last night? The Jets D didn't exactly look like worldbeaters either, and their offense is well..... offensive.

The Jets played against a competent defense

 

[AQPE]

While I agree completely, and your post bears repeating I'm PMing Ian to have you banned for even mentioning you-know-who.

Unconfirmed reports state that a poster calling himself "A Weis Old Man" has been wreaking havoc on the University of Florida fans.com messageboard, calling for more slant and screen passes. The poster claims to have been one of the original Gator football fans and the inspiration for the invention of Gatorade.

 

[Whorod]

I really think it's time to sign Darren Sharper. I don't care if he can't run anymore. We need a guy that can make smart, common sense, basic athlete plays on the ball when playing in deep zone. I think Sharper could be an asset on 3rd down.

 

[oldskool138]

2. Nat Solder- Image where the OL would have been if we haven't drafted this kid.

Imagine what the Pat's pass rush would look like if they hadn't.

 

[Deus Irae]

I really think it's time to sign Darren Sharper. I don't care if he can't run anymore. We need a guy that can make smart, common sense, basic athlete plays on the ball when playing in deep zone. I think Sharper could be an asset on 3rd down.

This would seem more likely if the change to more zone defense in the secondary is a long term thing rather than just a move made due to injury.

 

[oldskool138]

How can it be a knee-jerk reaction? The game was over at 7:00 PM and this thread was started at 3:14 AM.

If it were started at, say, 8:00 PM that would qualify as "knee-jerk".

 

[yukon cornelius]

Imagine what the Pat's pass rush would look like if they hadn't.

it would look a lot the same, and you'd see more of it, as the offense would be off the field a lot more

 

[Patspsycho]

I thought Ochocinco looked good yesterday...he only had 19snaps....but he ran a REALLY NICE route that lead to the welker touch down....and was 3-3 when targeted(although a penalty took away the 3rd)..with more opportunities I think he wouldve been more productive....he got 2 1'st downs

he's going to be needed against the Jets next week(especially if Hernandez is still out)...because Revis will be on welker and cromartie should be able to shut down branch..

meaning, its a game for Ocho/Gronkowski to step it up in the passing game....and IMO this is what Ocho was brought in for....teams with multiple good corners who can limit Welker/shut down branch...where he can step in and pick up the slack in a way that Tate wasnt able to

The Jets cant defend the Run...so hopefully we throw alot of Ridley/Green-ellis at them

Ocho was overlooked on that Welker TD. He ran the cross perfectly and timed the rub pretty well. It caused Chowka to lose half a step, which was all Welker needed to get to the pylon.

All in all, even though he had a short day and didn't really show up on the stat sheet, I think it was his best game as a Patriot. He was on the same page as Brady, and the offense.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I really think it's time to sign Darren Sharper. I don't care if he can't run anymore. We need a guy that can make smart, common sense, basic athlete plays on the ball when playing in deep zone. I think Sharper could be an asset on 3rd down.

Ya gotta think about that. By your reasoning "can't run" we should bring back Tedy and Rodney Harrison. It was sad watching Bruschi lumber along 10 yards (no exaggeration) behind a JAG in his last pre-season. He knew it was time to retire. We tried the old slow once great experiment with John Lynch. The drop off with some older players is exponential. The ones with self-respect retire before beclowning themselves.

 

[patfanken]

The Raiders killed themselves with penalties and unforced errors. They had no problems abusing the Patriots defense.

So are you saying that the 13 times McFadden ran the ball for under 3ypc were caused by the refs and the refusal of the Oakland OL to block?

The reality is that a defense that is flawed to begin with, featuring a new scheme, in a shortened off season, was woefully undermanned on Sunday. Imagine the Jets if they lost Divito, Harris, Cromartie, and Wilson plus a few more DL subs. You think that even the great Jet D wouldn't be impacted?

Lets get real here. We all see the flaws. No one is trying to sugar coat them. But some here dwell on them like they can't be fixed as the season rolls on. The fact is that how a team looks in September hasn't any impact on what they might be come playoff time.

How many times do I have to point out that the 2001 and 2003 Championship teams had defenses that ranked in the LOWER quarter of the league. If you want a more recent example, just look at the Colts in their Superbowl year. They had a horrendous year on defense, yet it was the defense that keyed their superbowl run

If come late December, we are are seeing the same kinds of flaws in the defense, then YES ,it will be time to panic and CORRECT to feel despair a bout the potential for a long playoff run. But at this point, one is not being a blind homer for recognizing the potential for improvement and pointing out the positives

 

[Deus Irae]

So are you saying that the 13 times McFadden ran the ball for under 3ypc were caused by the refs and the refusal of the Oakland OL to block?

27 for 160, Ken... It's always convenient to ignore the other runs when it kills your argument, though, so I can understand why you'd do that.

The reality is that a defense that is flawed to begin with, featuring a new scheme, in a shortened off season, was woefully undermanned on Sunday. Imagine the Jets if they lost Divito, Harris, Cromartie, and Wilson plus a few more DL subs. You think that even the great Jet D wouldn't be impacted?

If that's the reality, quit posting nonsense about how well they're doing, and post honest analysis with the understanding that you expect they'll improve.

Lets get real here. We all see the flaws. No one is trying to sugar coat them. But some here dwell on them like they can't be fixed as the season rolls on. The fact is that how a team looks in September hasn't any impact on what they might be come playoff time.

You're clearly trying to sugarcoat it, Ken, so claiming that nobody is trying to do so just makes you look silly.

How many times do I have to point out that the 2001 and 2003 Championship teams had defenses that ranked in the LOWER quarter of the league. If you want a more recent example, just look at the Colts in their Superbowl year. They had a horrendous year on defense, yet it was the defense that keyed their superbowl run

You can point it out all you want. It's completely irrelevant to a discussion about what happened in the Raiders game, but don't let that stop you.

If come late December, we are are seeing the same kinds of flaws in the defense, then YES ,it will be time to panic and CORRECT to feel despair a bout the potential for a long playoff run. But at this point, one is not being a blind homer for recognizing the potential for improvement and pointing out the positives

We're talking about what's happened through the first four weeks of the season and, in particular with this thread, what happened against the Raiders. Projecting what they are going to do in December is meaningless in such a context.

 

[DaBruinz]

27 for 160, Ken... It's always convenient to ignore the other runs when it kills your argument, though, so I can understand why you'd do that.

Except there weren't 27 called rushing plays by the Raiders. 4 of those runs, for 29 yards, were on scrambles by Campbell after the Pats flushed him from the pocket.

Did the Pats make 2 mistakes? Yep. One resulted in a 41 yard run by McFadden and one a 30 yard run on an end around by Ford. Yes, I can chose to look at those 2 plays as the exceptions and not the norm for yesterday. The result would be 55 yards on 22 carries. That looks pretty good.. Those two plays would be points of emphasis for film review and to improve upon.

That doesn't "kill the argument" as you put it.

If that's the reality, quit posting nonsense about how well they're doing, and post honest analysis with the understanding that you expect they'll improve.

How about you and others stop exaggerating about how "bad" they are doing. Ken did post HONEST analysis. Just because you disagree due to being overly anal retentive doesn't change that. And he has said he expects them to improve.

You're clearly trying to sugarcoat it, Ken, so claiming that nobody is trying to do so just makes you look silly.

Sorry, Deus, but there is nothing in points 5,6 or 7 that should make anyone think that PFK is "sugarcoating" anything.

You can point it out all you want. It's completely irrelevant to a discussion about what happened in the Raiders game, but don't let that stop you.

It's not "irrelevant" to the discussion because he used it in his first post. It's called using prior history as a reason not to over-react and have a positive outlook. I know that's hard for you to understand, but it's certainly not irrelevant.

We're talking about what's happened through the first four weeks of the season and, in particular with this thread, what happened against the Raiders. Projecting what they are going to do in December is meaningless in such a context.

I think that the OP would know more about what we're talking about in this thread than you would. And, I'm sorry to say that your post is what is meaningless.

 

[Metaphors]

The First thing the Jets will do is put Revis on Welker. Rivas will hold Welker all day and get away with it like he always does.

1) Welker is a move guy. Putting Revis on Welker allows the Pats to manipulate Revis whenever they want. Move him to the same side as Cromartie and pick apart the opposite side.

2) It is easier to get away with holding on outside receivers running vertical routes. Grabbing Welker's jersey in the middle of the field as he changes direction is a bit harder.

Revis may end up on Welker in certain coverages but I highly doubt he will follow Welker around in man-to-man.

The Raiders went 90 yards in two plays, granted it was the end of the game, but that is exactly it, at this time you are suppose to let the guy catch the ball in front of you and tackle him in bounds and make them burn up the clock, no 90 yards in two plays!!!!

Granted the situation was meaningless and won't translate to this week's game, but I'm going to assign meaning to it and apply it to this week's game.

Unless Dirty Sanchez turns the ball over three times, I have a hard time seeing the Pats winning.

The San-grenade has 9 turnovers in 4 games. So you are saying that unless he has an average game for him, the Pats can't win?

Not only can't their defense stop anyone, is it me, or is EVERYONE open in the Pats secondary?? I can't even tell if they are playing man or zone! Everyone is open by ten yeards.

Yet teams can't seem to score more than 10 points in the 1st half of any game. Bizarre isn't it?

Once again, not even a hint of a pass rush. The Ravens have terrible corners, but Sanchez was literally ducking for his life.

The Ravens had 2 sacks and 10 QB hits. In week 1 (before the injuries started piling up), the Pats had 4 sacks and 11 QB hits against the Fins. If Haynesworth, Bodden and Dowling are back (and only Mayo is added to the injury list) then I expect the Pats to be able to get to Sanchez. If Mangold is still out or hobbled, even more reason to be optimistic.

Campbell was untouched yesterday, he was something like 8 for 8 on third downs.

Campbell dropped back to pass on 3rd down 12 times yesterday. He got 1st down yardage 6 times. So if 6 for 12 (which certainly isn't good for the defense) is something like 8 for 8, then you are correct.

As for hitting Campbell (Mark Anderson's forearm notwithstanding), you assume that was the plan. If the objective was to lose the game like the Jets did the week before, that would be a solid approach. While a 15 play, 8 minute FG drive may offend your delicate sensibilities, I loved every clock-killing, lead-preserving second of it.

Feel good if you want to, BUT, unless something drastically changes, the Pats aren't winning anything with this defense...

Technically they are winning something with this defense. Because this defense goes with this offense and this special teams to face those opponents. Happiness is a matter of which link on nfl.com you click on first...Standings or Stats.

Just for grins, which team has your "prototype" defense this year?

Ravens? Scheme works great against mistake-prone QBs and shaky OLs. Not so much otherwise (ask Tennessee).

Jets? Oakland ended that discussion.

Titans? Maybe once they play against an offense that can get out of its own way.

You don't need to be able to outswim a shark to survive. You just need to be able to swim faster than the guy next to you. Context is everything.

 

[billdog3484]

Its STILL about the points, and the Pats performance in the Red Zone this year gives me hope that things will improve, much like they did last season.;

I agree with most of what youre saying. obviously, at the end of the day its about points against. but, i do think you are missing a key element to all of this. due to our defense's inability to stop anyone it puts a tremendous amount of pressure on the offense.

but, even more troubling, is that due to the inability to get off the field on defense, it keeps our offense off the field. the more possessions each team has in the game, the better for us. we are going to score more points per possession no matter who we face over the long haul, so more possessions per game favors us, because smaller sample sizes arent as predictive as larger ones. the problem is, when the other team has the ball for long sustaining drives, it limits the amount of possession our offense has per game. when you shrink the amount of possessions each team has, it decreases our chances to take advantage of our statistical edge.

 

[borg]

I thought of a positive....yes.....a positive
Pats are 3-1 despite playing 3 road games. I think that means there are more home games left. I'll have to check that.