From the sports guy..... The truth....

[spacecrime]

Are you saying the 8-7 Seahawks made a smarter deal?

Kindly do not introduce facts into a BB-bashing thread. Comparing the 8-7 Hawks with the 10-4 Pats. Tsk, tsk. Next you'll be pointing out that the difference will be even greater next year as we have two first round picks and they have none.

 

[Pats726]

That's beside the point though. As Bill would say, it's not how a players performs somewhere else that matters - it's how he would perform in this system. In this system Branch was a #1. That is why so many of the pundits were dumbfounded - as the majority of them contended Branch was worth more to this team than he would be to any other (because of his fit in the system and rapore with a cerebal QB - something we are learning is not that easy to develop).

Yes and no...It is true that Branch performed well here..But what does that mean??
Does a FO knowing that throw a ton of money at him for that?? More than what is reasonable?? The bottom line was that the last year of contract and Deion wanted it gone..OR he would not play..Do you think the FO should have given in? I don't think so..he's not close to the Brady, Seymour world...and it is Branch himself who put himself in the situation by not negotiating of good faith. We will not find out for years if that is the case with other receivers..how many years was Branch here to develop that timing with Brady?? Give these receivers time though... I agree Branch had a special link with Brady..but it didn't seem to mean that much to him.

 

[RayClay]

Kindly do not introduce facts into a BB-bashing thread. Comparing the 8-7 Hawks with the 10-4 Pats. Tsk, tsk. Next you'll be pointing out that the difference will be even greater next year as we have two first round picks and they have none.

Next year? But I thought the window was closing?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Kindly do not introduce facts into a BB-bashing thread. Comparing the 8-7 Hawks with the 10-4 Pats. Tsk, tsk. Next you'll be pointing out that the difference will be even greater next year as we have two first round picks and they have none.

The Seahawks have nothing to do with the discussion. This isn't about who got the better end of a deal. It's about this team and where they find themselves 16 weeks into the 2006 season in which they had 80% turnover at WR. And barring any earth shattering developments in the next 8 days that will be 12-4 but unfortunately a 4th seed entering the playoffs without a bye. Imagine where this team would be now with Branch still here, or even Givens. And don't make that assessment based on what they did elsewhere, make it on what they routinely produced in this system. Would you rather be 12-4 (or 11-5 or God forbid 10-6 and praying the JETS lose the late game next week) while you ponder who they should take with the 23rd pick...or would your rather be 14-2 contemplating HFA throughout the playoffs?

 

[hodgey]

Plus they have Burleson at 49 milllion for 7 years and they only use him on special teams.

We really need to emulate them.

Is the point to just be better than Seattle?

 

[RayClay]

The Seahawks have nothing to do with the discussion. This isn't about who got the better end of a deal. It's about this team and where they find themselves 16 weeks into the 2006 season in which they had 80% turnover at WR. And barring any earth shattering developments in the next 8 days that will be 12-4 but unfortunately a 4th seed entering the playoffs without a bye. Imagine where this team would be now with Branch still here, or even Givens. And don't make that assessment based on what they did elsewhere, make it on what they routinely produced in this system. Would you rather be 12-4 (or 11-5 or God forbid 10-6 and praying the JETS lose the late game next week) while you ponder who they should take with the 23rd pick...or would your rather be 14-2 contemplating HFA throughout the playoffs?

It's also about this team and a pattern of fiscal discipline that makes them contenders year after year while other teams boom and bust.

It's easy to say, cave in just this time, rip up the contract just this time, make a questionable high dollar signing just this time.

Every team in the league is a potential competitor and I think it's fair to compare our overall to that of other teams.

Due to some factors beyond our control and some we might have been able to do better, we have a temporary problem at one position.

Seattle has a budget busting mess at WR, that's going to cost them valuable players at other positions because of the cap.

At times it seems the Colts are missing a whole defense.

I won't list every team in the league, but if people are going to obsess on one position on a 10-4 team, weaknesses on other teams are germane to the discussion IMO.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

or would your rather be 14-2 contemplating HFA throughout the playoffs?

14-2 contemplating HFA

What do I win?

 

[belichickaholic]

The Seahawks have nothing to do with the discussion. This isn't about who got the better end of a deal. It's about this team and where they find themselves 16 weeks into the 2006 season in which they had 80% turnover at WR. And barring any earth shattering developments in the next 8 days that will be 12-4 but unfortunately a 4th seed entering the playoffs without a bye. Imagine where this team would be now with Branch still here, or even Givens. And don't make that assessment based on what they did elsewhere, make it on what they routinely produced in this system. Would you rather be 12-4 (or 11-5 or God forbid 10-6 and praying the JETS lose the late game next week) while you ponder who they should take with the 23rd pick...or would your rather be 14-2 contemplating HFA throughout the playoffs?

Deion Branch didn't help them any better than 10-6 last year and IIRC, he had an extremely costly penalty on the play just before Tom threw the Int to Champ Bailey in the Denver game.

It's spilled milk, they've moved on, but a lot of fans haven't. IMO, the 4 losses have more to do with the entire team just playing flat than anything else.

Also, if they play the way they did last week, (no penalties, no turnovers, strong ST, strong D and an efficient offense) they'll beat anybody.

Remember Defense Wins Championships, not offense. How many rings does Peyton have?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Yes and no...It is true that Branch performed well here..But what does that mean??
Does a FO knowing that throw a ton of money at him for that?? More than what is reasonable?? The bottom line was that the last year of contract and Deion wanted it gone..OR he would not play..Do you think the FO should have given in? I don't think so..he's not close to the Brady, Seymour world...and it is Branch himself who put himself in the situation by not negotiating of good faith. We will not find out for years if that is the case with other receivers..how many years was Branch here to develop that timing with Brady?? Give these receivers time though... I agree Branch had a special link with Brady..but it didn't seem to mean that much to him.

Players contracts pay out over the course of the regular season. Teams don't pay players for the playoffs, the league does via playoff shares. Therefore deals must be signed before the end of the regular season to count any bonus money or amortization of bonus against the current season cap. The time to increase salaries actually passed about a month ago.

If they in fact offered him the money if he'd dump the agent, then maybe they didn't think it was all that unreasonable - and they were just playing hardball and determined not to pay a nickle more than they had to until they had to. If that's the case perhaps they did in fact put winning the contract battle ahead of winning the football war. And an emerging approach to the growing cap and rookie contract limits (not more than 4 year deal for other than first rounders) appears to be extending players earlier (once you have identified their value) before the FA salary curve under a rapidly expanding cap gets even steeper.

I always said Branch was not an elite WR, but he was a #1 in a system that is difficult to master. Hopefully Jackson will develop into a WR who can master the system, but the early results are not a slam dunk. Branch was able to show not only he grasped it conceptually but could execute it in practice and on the field early in his career. From what we hear CJ grasped it conceptually but whether due entirely to injuries or something else altogether, he has yet to show he can execute those concepts at NFL game speed. And as a tea leaf reader I'm a little uncomfortable with the way Brady has spoken about him almost from the get go. Something isn't clicking when Brady doesn't gush about you.

As for the special link not mattering to Deion, this isn't love - it's the business end of football. He had something we need, and he was willing to provide it but not for a nickle less than he could get from someone else. More often than not at the end of the day that's what motivates professional athletes. Brady has something we need too, only he (and a few others) are willing to discount it because we have something they want more than a few more millions - an opportunity to be part of something special to them, winning multiple championships with a career team. That apparently didn't matter to Deion nearly as much as maximizing his immediate earning potential. Although I don't doubt in time he will better appreciate that Brady (and the system) had something that all QB's (and systems) don't have, and as a result he will likely not fare as well career wise when all is said and done. But for him the most important thing over the last year was securing his family's financial future.

The players have a mantra they often impart to young guys coming up. When your career is over all you will have is your money and your memories. Deion has two rings and a Superbowl MVP trophy, and for most NFL players that more than covers for the memories.

 

[DaBruinz]

Going into December with 8 million dollars in cap space, below average receivers and a 60 million dollar quarterback is dumb...


I am sure that even BB/SP would admit that they did not play their hand well this year

Before everyone on this board uses the old knee jerk reflex of denial...ask yourself if there is any truth to this statement

First off, the Pats don't have 8 million in cap space. Its closer to 6.5 million
2ndy, the Pats had set aside money for the Branch negotiations and for Ty Law. Had Branch ACTUALLY negotiated or had Law signed, the Pats probably wouldn't have been able to extend Koppen.

The "Sports Guy" doesn't know what he is talking about.

The only "truth" to the statement is that its stupid and pathetic to be a johnny come lately to the discussion that has been hashed and re-hashed 1000s of times on this board. All with the same conclusion.

The Pats put more than a good faith effort to sign Branch. Branch didn't even negotiate with them. All Branch did was offer an ULTIMATUM after the draft.


They also made a damn good offer to Givens. One that was trumped by the Titans. The contract offered to Law was very lucrative as well.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

14-2 contemplating HFA

What do I win?

The opportunity to attend a parade in February and order a copy of 3 games to Glory IV.

Of course at 12-4 or less there is still a shot at 4 Games to Glory I... just not quite as good a shot.

 

[DarrylS]

I responded:

There is another choice, negotiate with him and throw out the '06 year of the contract, which would have gone against the philosophy of the club and gotten squarely up the butt of the other 52 guys in the locker room..btw, anyone check how incredibly well that Deion is doing in Seattle?? Seattle would have been better off spending their money on Hutchinson, than spending that much cash on their #3 receiver.

Looking at the stats on NFL.com, it shows Branch as the second most productive receiver, not third.

Am I missing something?

Perhaps I did not do my homework, however there are those who really believe that this team would be significantly better with Branch here, however no one responds to the issue of personnel and financial cost if there were to happen.. keep picking at the details and not the actual substance of this article. Still believe if Hutchinson were signed, Seattle would be a powerhouse this year rather than Branch. Also heard that Branch made some braindead receiving decisions this year, not going out of bounds etc.

 

[Fencer]

They failed to recognize that Branch was out to screw them, in revenge for his rookie negotiations. That's the beginning and end of their "dumb" mistakes.

 

[DaBruinz]

Absolutely correct but they should have done something when Branch
held out early in the year. If they just said out he won't really
hold out of the season ... that was wrong thinking. But hind sight is a nice
thing. Deion was such a nice guy .. who thought he would be the traitor he
is.
One problem was ... they really couldn't committ to another WR
as long as Brach was a possibility ... unless they just decided to let him go.
Branch really put this team in a big bind. He's on my doo doo list.

JR -
One of the things that people need to remember is that Branch, just prior to the draft, came out in an interview and said something like "I am going to honor my contract whether or not I have an extension."

So, the team took him at his word. It was only about 6 weeks later, after he held out of mini-camp and the Patriots sent the 5 year/$33 million extension offer that his agent sent them the ultimatum. The one where they were told that the only way they would negotiate with the Pats would be if the Pats guaranteed that they wouldn't use the franchise tag on Branch. And they also told the Pats if they didn't guarantee that the franchise tag wouldn't be used, that Branch was going to hold out. The Pats response was the correct one. They told Branch that if he wasn't in camp, their offer was off the table and that there wouldn't be any more negotiations.

I still don't see anything wrong with that response. They basically said to Branch, hey, we are willing to negotiate in good faith, but you need to make an effort also. As we all know, Branch did nothing of the sort. His agent never made a counter offer to the Pats. So, there is no way he could know how high the Pats would have been willing to go. The Pats may have been willing to increase the "signing bonus" so that Branch would have gotten the sort of money over the life of the contract that he was looking for.

By the time this all had occured, most of the other good WRs were already off the market. So, there is no way

What also amazes me is the group that felt that the Pats should have let Branch hold out until week 10. They act like Branch would have come back and actually performed when he came back. More likely than not, Branch would have been inactive and done nothing for the rest of the year. Then the Pats would have lost him and gotten, at best, a 3rd round comp pick.

At least the Patriots have added a 1st round draft pick with which to help improve this team.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Going into December with 8 million dollars in cap space, below average receivers and a 60 million dollar quarterback is dumb...


I am sure that even BB/SP would admit that they did not play their hand well this year

Before everyone on this board uses the old knee jerk reflex of denial...ask yourself if there is any truth to this statement

No there is none, nada, zero zilch !

That money was BUDGETED for a certain wide receiver under contract, the only one of some 1600 NFL players to dishonor his contract, in 2006. If they didn't have that six million set aside, they could never have had the wherewithal to attempt to keep him and acquire Ty Law...

 

[DaBruinz]

The Seahawks have nothing to do with the discussion. This isn't about who got the better end of a deal. It's about this team and where they find themselves 16 weeks into the 2006 season in which they had 80% turnover at WR. And barring any earth shattering developments in the next 8 days that will be 12-4 but unfortunately a 4th seed entering the playoffs without a bye. Imagine where this team would be now with Branch still here, or even Givens. And don't make that assessment based on what they did elsewhere, make it on what they routinely produced in this system. Would you rather be 12-4 (or 11-5 or God forbid 10-6 and praying the JETS lose the late game next week) while you ponder who they should take with the 23rd pick...or would your rather be 14-2 contemplating HFA throughout the playoffs?

Mo -
Givens could just as easily ended up injured while playing for the Patriots this year as he did with the Titans.

All we can say is that this team would be different with Branch and Givens on it. We can't even really speculate on how they would have performed had Givens and Branch decided that earning $20 million and $33 million over the next 5 years and being a part of a perennial SB threat would be. Could this team be 12-2 right now? Perhaps. Perhaps not. Givens developed a case of the dropsies last year so there's no telling if that would have continued.

 

[BlitzFritz]

I agree. BB and SP did not play the receiver situation well.
Obviously they got punked by the twig, in an unexpected way.
But it is hard to argue that they can be happy with the receiver group they ended up with. Nuff said.

 

[cstjohn17]

Going into December with 8 million dollars in cap space, below average receivers and a 60 million dollar quarterback is dumb...


I am sure that even BB/SP would admit that they did not play their hand well this year

Before everyone on this board uses the old knee jerk reflex of denial...ask yourself if there is any truth to this statement

Yes, there is some truth and the truth hurts. I don't think it is completely Branch versus the FO, the overall point is that the WRs suck. There is plenty of blame to go around, in the end it is what is is. The Patriots have a lousy set of WRs and it could have been remedied, either by:
- signing Branch (I don't think the negotiation was handled very well, but again it is done)
- trading for someone of similar quality (I won't list names but there has to be at least 1 team that would have traded a WR at the deadline)
- get lucky in the draft (the worst path, WRs rarely produce in year 1)

In the end, we are stuck with a pile of crap at WR. Branch put the Patriots in a tough spot but they came up short in their attempt to build a quality WR core. Time will tell if this is a fatal flaw for 2006, all we can do is wish them luck and see how it plays out.

 

[bradmahn]

Looking at the stats on NFL.com, it shows Branch as the second most productive receiver, not third.

Am I missing something?

Yes. In last weeks loss to the 49ers, a game that Darrel Jackson missed due to injury, Branch was, at best, the #2 receiver, behind DJ Hackett. In Jackson's absence Hackett became the #1 man and Branch was the #2. I think that would make Branch the #3 receiver, behind Jackson and Hackett. It wasn't just a matter of Branch being double teamed and opening things up for Hackett, either, because Hackett was Hasselbeck's first read on most every passing play.

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

yeah, the sports guy becoming what he hates (negative boston media, approaching everything with a negative attitude) is a sad recent development. I find myself skipping anything he writes about boston teams because I know it'll be uninformed whining.

I hate how he continues to write about Brady's 6/$60M deal, never once mentioning that it was an extension signed when he had two years left. he's either too dumb (i doubt it) or just doesn't care to present the facts genuinely. It makes his case that the Pats are cheap to point out that Brees and Brady are both making 10M per, ignoring that brees was a free agent and Brady's deal was an extension.

Then again, he absolutely loves doing the same thing Johan Santana: "Santana is only making 10M a year while Gil meche is making 11M blah blah blah." It just means that I never take anything he says at face value. and yes I understand his purpose is to entertain, but if you're going to use sports to do it don't turn off your audience by getting your sports wrong.

I don't think I have once seen him mention that Sheion was insisting on her final year being torn up. Seems like an important bit of information, since it was the entire cause of the trade. The Pats were willing to pay her 6M per.
Once more, it would only hurt him in making his point that the Pats are cheap.

He hates Lugo and Drew and I think he even found a negative spin for the Matsuzaka signing. He'll to happy to remind us though how much better of the Sox were with Trot and Gonzo making outs.

And of course all of this is contrary to his "you can't complain when your team has won a championship within the last 5 years" rule. He loved that rule until the Pats and Sox won rings.

I think it just bugs me because he fulfills the negative stereotypes and makes Boston fans look bad. I guess it's so startling because he's always railed against the Boston negativity and he now has seemed to embrace it. Yeah, a 10-4 playoff-bound team sucks.

I might rather go to a game with Affleck. Ugh.