34/43, new signings and Big Vince

[supafly]

We're actually trading Big Vince for Liono from the Thundercats and a bag of weed.

Yes, but can he rush the passer??

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Yes, but can he rush the passer??

The bag of weed is for the opposing QBs, dontchaknow?

 

[RayClay]

With the mad scramble that is FA we have signed alot of vet DL. Now most have come from a 43 system and the cutting of Ty Warren makes me think that a singular precious(expensive)NT may be a luxury not needed if we are revamping our DL. BB often seems to focus on 1 set of players each season for a major overhaul. DBs/WRs/RBs, etc. With all the additions at DL, returning only 1 "starter", and despite Vince's skill level maybe he is being evaluated against his contract. This may not be a popular thread cuz everyone wants to think about both Vince and Al stuffing the run, but didnt we think the same way about Lawyer Milloy when Rodney was signed? Yes Vince sure can play DT but then is he worth his contract at that position? Maybe they are angling for him to restructure?? Opinions?

Are you intentionally starting a laughable thread or what?

 

[patsfan-1982]

With the mad scramble that is FA we have signed alot of vet DL. Now most have come from a 43 system and the cutting of Ty Warren makes me think that a singular precious(expensive)NT may be a luxury not needed if we are revamping our DL. BB often seems to focus on 1 set of players each season for a major overhaul. DBs/WRs/RBs, etc. With all the additions at DL, returning only 1 "starter", and despite Vince's skill level maybe he is being evaluated against his contract. This may not be a popular thread cuz everyone wants to think about both Vince and Al stuffing the run, but didnt we think the same way about Lawyer Milloy when Rodney was signed? Yes Vince sure can play DT but then is he worth his contract at that position? Maybe they are angling for him to restructure?? Opinions?

all the trades and signing came because the DL has sucked the last 2 years so if you trade or cut your best DL men your not even back to square one, every player the pats signed or traded for have played in both a 4-3 and 3-4 one gap and two gap i dont see BB being locked in on 4-3 or 3-4 this year he will mix it up game to game play by play what ever defens works best thats the one he will go with and Wilfork will be the centerpiece in whatever BB runs

 

[satz]

Let me be the usual buzz killer .We are going to be playing the defense as last year ...just different personal.

We have a stouter 3-4 line with ellis , vince and warren[gerrad] with some rotation guys.We needed a left end and ellis is that. Improved but the base is same.

3rd down and passing downs - we played single gap downhill downs , we were horrible. we could not stop sanchez from finishing his hotdog before chucking the ball. We have 22 DL now. out of this we are looking for the single gap guys to go get the QB. You want albert to give you a good 20-25 impact downs out of 65 [history says he gives you 40 but he is older and 2 yrs out of the game].carter/anderson - 1 will be kept as they are similar.

Big vince played alot last year and i will scale it down a bit to usual 40 snaps a game.then use the 4 down package go get the qb.

One day people will wakeup and realize that we do not have a top 20 pass rushing DE in thie team.
we have the top 2 NT ...so we play to our strength .Not go 4-3 and hope your OLB size guys can headbutt with tackles every down. they will be chewed up by tackles. Your 3-4 OLB are shadded and protected by your 3-4 ends. 4-3 your DE go head first at tackles every down.You do not have a freeney type smaller DE who are extremely fast. so you have your slower and smaller OLB get smacked by tackles with no 3-4 ends to protect them.

 

[jeffbiologist]

Or Bill could just be throwing a handful of noodles at a wall to see what sticks?

Milloy was no longer performing to the level BB wanted from his Safety, Harrison made his release something we could do. Wilfork continues to dominate and do everything BB wants and more. What you are seeing is the Pats FO building around Wilfork, not finding ways to get rid of 'em. Not a single guy on the DL could do what Vince does for this D, not a single one.

This thread won't be popular because what you are saying is ridiculous, not because you're bringing up a subject that's hard to swallow.

Was cutting Milloy "ridiculous"? How about trading Seymour? There are difficult decisions made by management every year and to think what I said is "ridiculous" simply isnt realistic. I'm sure every player is being evaluated, some more than others. I know as well as anyone that Vince is versitile, that was never in question. With all the movement along the line a thread like this is a natural progression. Geez

 

[DaBruinz]

With the mad scramble that is FA we have signed alot of vet DL. Now most have come from a 43 system and the cutting of Ty Warren makes me think that a singular precious(expensive)NT may be a luxury not needed if we are revamping our DL. BB often seems to focus on 1 set of players each season for a major overhaul. DBs/WRs/RBs, etc. With all the additions at DL, returning only 1 "starter", and despite Vince's skill level maybe he is being evaluated against his contract. This may not be a popular thread cuz everyone wants to think about both Vince and Al stuffing the run, but didnt we think the same way about Lawyer Milloy when Rodney was signed? Yes Vince sure can play DT but then is he worth his contract at that position? Maybe they are angling for him to restructure?? Opinions?

*sigh* I honestly feel sorry for you jeff. You clearly are starving for attention and feel that the only way to get it is to make stupid posts that aren't well thought out.

 

[DaBruinz]

Was cutting Milloy "ridiculous"? How about trading Seymour? There are difficult decisions made by management every year and to think what I said is "ridiculous" simply isnt realistic. I'm sure every player is being evaluated, some more than others. I know as well as anyone that Vince is versitile, that was never in question. With all the movement along the line a thread like this is a natural progression. Geez

The fact that you are so stupid to try comparing Wilfork's situation to Milloy or Seymour shows how desperate you are.

Milloy had a significant drop in production the year before he was cut. And Milloy's was the only contract (other than Law's) that hadn't already been restructured and could be cut to free up enough cap space.

Seymour's was in the last year of his contract.

What you said IS ridiculous and it's not close to being realistic. You talking in half-truths and grasping as straws.

A thread like this is NOT natural progression especially with the lame attempts at comparisons that are not thought through.

 

[BlueThunder]

Trading Seymour had nothing to do with his play...but more to do with salary , salary cap,and which position BB considered more important....Only could afford one...Vince's NT position won out...end of discussion.....

The Ted Washingtons and Vince Wilforks don't come around very often.....

just sayin

 

[DaBruinz]

jeffbiologist - making practice squad-calibre posts since 2007

Sorry, Fumbrunner, but I think that you just insulted the Practice Squad...


With that, could we get this thread moved or locked????

 

[Ivan]

With the mad scramble that is FA we have signed alot of vet DL. Now most have come from a 43 system and the cutting of Ty Warren makes me think that a singular precious(expensive)NT may be a luxury not needed if we are revamping our DL. BB often seems to focus on 1 set of players each season for a major overhaul. DBs/WRs/RBs, etc. With all the additions at DL, returning only 1 "starter", and despite Vince's skill level maybe he is being evaluated against his contract. This may not be a popular thread cuz everyone wants to think about both Vince and Al stuffing the run, but didnt we think the same way about Lawyer Milloy when Rodney was signed? Yes Vince sure can play DT but then is he worth his contract at that position? Maybe they are angling for him to restructure?? Opinions?

We need a "Get rid of Mayo" thread to go with all the other threads suggesting they get rid of their best players.

 

[strngplyr]

We need a "Get rid of Mayo" thread to go with all the other threads suggesting they get rid of their best players.

He's too old. We need to dump him for sure, he probably won't make the roster anyways. McCourty will be gone by next season, too.

 

[Off The Grid]

Trading Seymour had nothing to do with his play...but more to do with salary , salary cap,and which position BB considered more important....Only could afford one...Vince's NT position won out...end of discussion.....

WRONG.

Trading Seymour ~ instead of MOSS ~ was an horrible, glaring MISTAKE.

13 months later, Coach Bill realized that...but it was too late to get Seymour back.

 

[lurker1965]

With the mad scramble that is FA we have signed alot of vet DL. Now most have come from a 43 system and the cutting of Ty Warren makes me think that a singular precious(expensive)NT may be a luxury not needed if we are revamping our DL. BB often seems to focus on 1 set of players each season for a major overhaul. DBs/WRs/RBs, etc. With all the additions at DL, returning only 1 "starter", and despite Vince's skill level maybe he is being evaluated against his contract. This may not be a popular thread cuz everyone wants to think about both Vince and Al stuffing the run, but didnt we think the same way about Lawyer Milloy when Rodney was signed? Yes Vince sure can play DT but then is he worth his contract at that position? Maybe they are angling for him to restructure?? Opinions?

In college Vince was a 4-3 DT known as "baby Sapp." I'd like to see that.

AND if we keep switching from a 4-3 and 3-4 * then a guy who can be a 1 gap DT or a two gap NT is an awesome tool.

* requires defenders not easily confused to think "I'm a DE" then next down to think "I'm an OLB." Or even "I'm an MLB that looks like an ILB until we suddenly shift with seven seconds on the play clock. Note: Intelligence and concentration are not the same thing.

 

[DaBruinz]

WRONG.

Trading Seymour ~ instead of MOSS ~ was an horrible, glaring MISTAKE.

13 months later, Coach Bill realized that...but it was too late to get Seymour back.

SOrry, OTG. Trading Seymour was the right thing to do... You seem to be under some misguided idea that Seymour wasn't going to be an issue. He was. He would have walked for nothing but a 3rd round pick and could have walked to the Jets. By trading Seymour to the Raiders, BB sent him to a dysfunctional team and ended up with a mid range 1st round pick. Which is better than the end of the 3rd round compensatory pick they'd have ended up with if Seymour walked.

 

[lurker1965]

We're actually trading Big Vince for Liono from the Thundercats and a bag of weed.

Actually I like that Panthero dude. He is older and his contract demands will be more reasonable and all he lacks is a ring.

Epic fail.

Up there with the trade Welker thread and the old "Keep Cassell, trade Brady" thread from 2008

Dumpster material, and let's hope trash day comes soon, because the smell is so bad.

Hey, all the Cassel stuff was good for a chuckle.

These months away from football has really messed people up with their logical thinking.

I can't wait for the "Let's trade Brady and steal Sanchez" thread. ...

Jet fans will be here shortly.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

WRONG.

Trading Seymour ~ instead of MOSS ~ was an horrible, glaring MISTAKE.

13 months later, Coach Bill realized that...but it was too late to get Seymour back.

Couldn't agree more. They were paying Moss what 9 million a year. They would have been able to sign Seymour for that.

(no need to point out what Seymour signed with Oakland for, if the Pats signed him, Crazy Al wouldn't have been able throw his crazy money at him)

 

[Ring 6]

Was cutting Milloy "ridiculous"? How about trading Seymour? There are difficult decisions made by management every year and to think what I said is "ridiculous" simply isnt realistic. I'm sure every player is being evaluated, some more than others. I know as well as anyone that Vince is versitile, that was never in question. With all the movement along the line a thread like this is a natural progression. Geez

Oh yes it is ridiculous.
Milloy was coming off a poor season, had clearly declined and refused a paycut.
Seymour was a FA to be who had held out before and was going to demand a contract we wouldn't pay.
Wilfork received a long term contract last year.

As others have said bringing in veteran depth for cheap is not a reason to get rid of your best player on the DL.
Whats next? We have Mallett, lets trade Brady?

 

[Ring 6]

WRONG.

Trading Seymour ~ instead of MOSS ~ was an horrible, glaring MISTAKE.

13 months later, Coach Bill realized that...but it was too late to get Seymour back.

Trading Seymour would have been the wrong thing to do if he had reasonable contract demands.
It wasnt a choice between Seymour and Moss.

 

[Off The Grid]

WRONG.

Trading Seymour ~ instead of MOSS ~ was an horrible, glaring MISTAKE.

13 months later, Coach Bill realized that...but it was too late to get Seymour back.

Sorry, OTG. Trading Seymour was the right thing to do... You seem to be under some misguided idea that Seymour wasn't going to be an issue. He was. He would have walked for nothing but a 3rd round pick and could have walked to the Jets. By trading Seymour to the Raiders, BB sent him to a dysfunctional team and ended up with a mid range 1st round pick. Which is better than the end of the 3rd round compensatory pick they'd have ended up with if Seymour walked.

Your Insight is always welcome, Brother Bruinz, even when we disagree.

...As is the case, here.

Respectfully submitted: It is YOU, my friend, who is under the misguided idea.

My point is obviously that ~ had we jettisoned Moss's CONTRACT when we did ~ we never would have HAD to chose 2 of 3 of Wilfork, Mankins, or Seymour.

That's clear...yes??

Couldn't agree more. They were paying Moss what 9 million a year. They would have been able to sign Seymour for that.

(no need to point out what Seymour signed with Oakland for, if the Pats signed him, Crazy Al wouldn't have been able throw his crazy money at him)

EXACTLY.

This was always presented ~ here and in all other Patriot Forums ~ as a choice between 2 of 3 Grizzlies...without acknowledging that jettisoning Moss ~ something I'd been advocating since January 2008 ~ would've allowed us to keep ALL of them.

Trading Seymour would have been the wrong thing to do if he had reasonable contract demands.

It wasn't a choice between Seymour and Moss.

NO.

But it SHOULD have been.

***

And one short year later...we got rid of Moss ANYWAY. :bricks: