* Your Call: "43" or "34" or "425" or "245"?? *

[VJCPatriot]

I'd go to the 425 nickel on most passing downs. With Vince/Albert in the middle they are gonna be a load for the OL to handle making everyone else that much better. Of course BB will tinker with and 'morph' his defense as he sees fit to create confusion with the offense. The personnel that the Pats are loading up on in 2011 are more flexibile and I think more geared to pressuring the QB. Which is a big need for the defense after giving up so many 3rd down conversions last year last year.

 

[N.Eman]

You forgot to put "All of the above" pick. I think coach goes with all/any formation that gives him the best chance to stop the opposing offense. Most importantly on 3rd down. Personally I cant wait to see that 4-2-5 on 3rd down. Let the season begin!!!

 

[Ring 6]

Is there an "all the above"?

While I certainly love the flexibility of two man sets, I more enjoy being flexible in the sets you can deploy with the same personnel. Haynesworth is tall enough to play on the tackle in the 34, explosive enough to play on the guard in the 43. The 34 OLB's can play with their hand in the dirt. Offensive personnel dictates "base" defense and you have three possibilities to morph into. 34 two gap alignment, 43 over or under, all 52 derivatives, all do different things. Offense checks, you check. Suddenly the offense is put on the defensive. Miscommunication in blocking schemes, uncertainty over interior routes, timeout burned. The enemy is on their heels and you've yet to fire a round. Eloquent in it's lethality.

Extend this further to sub. Same sub personnel with a two man line of 92 and 75, and suddenly you have the 42, the 33, and the 24 all at your disposal. All can do different things without declaring through personnel. Compound this with two shutdown corners and a stable of good safeties, and you can literally do anything inside. It's not about 43 or 34, it's about the multiskers they have acquired to run either. The ambiguity and flexibility of a certain set is nice, but having the ability to seamlessly morph between several increases that advantage exponentially. The stuff Belichick will be able to do this year is going to be incredible.

Particularly in the sub, because we have so many versatile players. Since we use 34 OLBs as DEs in the sub, is that a 42 or a 24 or a 33? The other 2 rushers can come from anywhere, and then you can also blitz.
We often use safeties as 'lbs' in the sub. Is that 416 or 425? And depending upon personell (esp Rodney) we could blitz a safety on 90% of 3rd downs.

In the base, and on first down, BB likes to use his 2 gap base to dictate that we will focus on taking away the run and the big play, and force teams into a short passing game on 1st down. Since so many teams want balance, running into the teeth of a 2 gap, or dumping off for a short gain creates more 2nd and long to feed into situational defense. Its all about the series, not just the individual play at hand.

 

[Ring 6]

I hate to rain on your parade, and guys that can do both is a great concept, but I want to address one common misconception. (To be fair, you don't state it, but I can see some lurker inferring it from your post.)

An experience O-line will note where Vince lines up. If right in front of the center, then he is playing two gap, or 3-4. If he lines up in the gap between the center and the guard then he is play 1 gap, or a 4-3.

An inexperienced line will be confused. Even if told of this. It is one thing to be told and another to see.

34 or 43 can each be 1 gap or 2 gap.

 

[Ring 6]

I enjoy defenses that fly around and make plays. 34, 43 it doesn't matter.

Yes, whatever means we win

 

[Off The Grid]

LOVE the variety of the picks!!

Honestly, I kept it to 4 choices because I didn't expect such breadth and depth of knowledge.

Clearly, I underrated this crew.

 

[bagwell368]

I went 425 (which is related to the 515, which we will see at times too).

The 425 will get the most snaps, but even the 34 will be used against run first teams or in bad weather.

 

[Patspsycho]

I hate to rain on your parade, and guys that can do both is a great concept, but I want to address one common misconception. (To be fair, you don't state it, but I can see some lurker inferring it from your post.)

An experience O-line will note where Vince lines up. If right in front of the center, then he is playing two gap, or 3-4. If he lines up in the gap between the center and the guard then he is play 1 gap, or a 4-3.

An inexperienced line will be confused. Even if told of this. It is one thing to be told and another to see.

Incorrect.

One-gap/two-gap has nothing to do with alignment, they are defensive philosophies.

 

[Patspsycho]

Particularly in the sub, because we have so many versatile players. Since we use 34 OLBs as DEs in the sub, is that a 42 or a 24 or a 33? The other 2 rushers can come from anywhere, and then you can also blitz.
We often use safeties as 'lbs' in the sub. Is that 416 or 425? And depending upon personell (esp Rodney) we could blitz a safety on 90% of 3rd downs.

What constitutes a 42/24/33 is either the personnel or who is in three point or stand up. For example, you could have a 24 personnel on the field but the defense could be in a 33 stack.

 

[Joker]

I don't give a crap what defensive alignment they play, as long as that "yippee!!!look at ME!!!!!" little statutory rapist gets planted face first after a three count. I do not want to EVER see this little chest thumping POS jumping around like a Mexi-roo on crack after sitting there in the pocket for 8 friggin' seconds untouched. I want this punk beaten DOWN...I want him to NEVER EVER feel safe in the pocket in any game the Rats play the Pats going forward...and yes, if at all possible,I wouldn't mind seeing him get crushed between Vince and AH...like a friggin' BUG...which is what he is.

 

[Ring 6]

What constitutes a 42/24/33 is either the personnel or who is in three point or stand up. For example, you could have a 24 personnel on the field but the defense could be in a 33 stack.

Yes, but how they align presnap and what they do is not the same thing.
If you line up in what looks like a 24, but the OLBs rush is it really any different than a 42?
That was my point. Those 6 guys can line up however they want but basically do all of the same things from any of the alignments.
Oh, and with OLBs that play DEs in the 42, the personell is the same in any case.

 

[Ring 6]

Incorrect.

One-gap/two-gap has nothing to do with alignment, they are defensive philosophies.

Not to mention that alignment is not just head up or in the gap. You can be inside eye, outside eye, head up or in the gap. The only thing thats tough to do is line up in the gap and play 2 gap technique because you start with a big disadvantage because because the play side OL will have a downhill angle on you.

 

[supafly]

Is there an "all the above"?

While I certainly love the flexibility of two man sets, I more enjoy being flexible in the sets you can deploy with the same personnel. Haynesworth is tall enough to play on the tackle in the 34, explosive enough to play on the guard in the 43. The 34 OLB's can play with their hand in the dirt. Offensive personnel dictates "base" defense and you have three possibilities to morph into. 34 two gap alignment, 43 over or under, all 52 derivatives, all do different things. Offense checks, you check. Suddenly the offense is put on the defensive. Miscommunication in blocking schemes, uncertainty over interior routes, timeout burned. The enemy is on their heels and you've yet to fire a round. Eloquent in it's lethality.

Extend this further to sub. Same sub personnel with a two man line of 92 and 75, and suddenly you have the 42, the 33, and the 24 all at your disposal. All can do different things without declaring through personnel. Compound this with two shutdown corners and a stable of good safeties, and you can literally do anything inside. It's not about 43 or 34, it's about the multiskers they have acquired to run either. The ambiguity and flexibility of a certain set is nice, but having the ability to seamlessly morph between several increases that advantage exponentially. The stuff Belichick will be able to do this year is going to be incredible.

Well said jays52.

Many good points, and I absolutely love the last sentence of your post.

I consider you one of the premier defensive minded posters on the entire forum, and always look forward to your thoughts.

 

[supafly]

Not to mention that alignment is not just head up or in the gap. You can be inside eye, outside eye, head up or in the gap. The only thing thats tough to do is line up in the gap and play 2 gap technique because you start with a big disadvantage because because the play side OL will have a downhill angle on you.

And the same goes for you, Andy.

 

[bagwell368]

Some changes since this poll was started...

I was thinking that with the lack of training camp, and various changes in offensive players for every team - that an aggressive, attacking defense might fit the personal best, and take advantage of the lack of readiness around the league.

How about the 46 defense, and the zone blitz? I'd say we have the personal in rotation at DL to put a large amount of pressure on QB's, and enough OLB/DE types that can drop into coverage.

 

[Patspsycho]

Some changes since this poll was started...

I was thinking that with the lack of training camp, and various changes in offensive players for every team - that an aggressive, attacking defense might fit the personal best, and take advantage of the lack of readiness around the league.

How about the 46 defense, and the zone blitz? I'd say we have the personal in rotation at DL to put a large amount of pressure on QB's, and enough OLB/DE types that can drop into coverage.

No way in hell BB is going to play the 46. He is not a gambling man like Ryan is. In the 46, all your weapons are up front and your backfield is severely exposed. Ryan thinks he can get away with it because he has one of the best corner in the league in Revis.

 

[RussFrancis]

"3-1-4-1-2" wasnt an option??

 

[Off The Grid]

Some changes since this poll was started...

I was thinking that with the lack of training camp, and various changes in offensive players for every team - that an aggressive, attacking defense might fit the personal best, and take advantage of the lack of readiness around the league.

How about the 46 defense, and the zone blitz?

I'd say we have the personal in rotation at DL to put a large amount of pressure on QB's, and enough OLB/DE types that can drop into coverage.

Actually, that's not the worst idea I've heard!!

***

To clarify, for anyone who might be thinking that the "46" ~ a misleading name if every there was one ~ is a "461" Defense, it's actually best described as a "443".

Now...As a BASE Defense??

Of course not.

***

But I can see us breaking that out, from time to time, with these personnel.

Employed judiciously, it could produce spectacular results.

...Preferably in a good way.