Aren't Catholics Christians, too?

[thesmee1]

I knew a baptist who referred to catholics as 'papists,' and not true christians. So to ask the question again, or better yet, rephrase it, are catholics, anglicans, and othodox christians, christians?

 

[taltos]

Yes, but not in the minds of some of the fundamentalist sects that are offshoots of the Baptists.

 

[BruschiOnTap]

It cracks me up when 'protestants' moan about Catholicism. Everything they believe sprang from Catholicism at some point. If protestantism really wanted to be legit, it would reject all endorsed Catholic teachings/ideas (including saints, church history, biblical translations, creeds, holidays, etc.) pending scholarly review of pre-church Christianity. Instead Methodists still recite the Nicene Creed and the Apostles' Creed and most denominations still do the rite of communion at least once a month and believe Easter falls on the Catholic-appointed day of the year...

Luther and his followers didn't go far enough, IMO. Puritanism was the only protestant movement I have much respect for but I think that's collectively the most terrible set of ideas to force on people.

 

[thesmee1]

It cracks me up when 'protestants' moan about Catholicism. Everything they believe sprang from Catholicism at some point. If protestantism really wanted to be legit, it would reject all endorsed Catholic teachings/ideas (including saints, church history, biblical translations, creeds, holidays, etc.) pending scholarly review of pre-church Christianity. Instead Methodists still recite the Nicene Creed and the Apostles' Creed and most denominations still do the rite of communion at least once a month and believe Easter falls on the Catholic-appointed day of the year...

Luther and his followers didn't go far enough, IMO. Puritanism was the only protestant movement I have much respect for but I think that's collectively the most terrible set of ideas to force on people.

That's what I mean. I can read the Bible, and get one interpretation. My neighbor can read it, and get something totally different out of it. If you want to live by it, that's cool, but 3 to be 4 seems to think if you're not 'born again' and live by the Bible word for word, you can face eternity treading lava.

Luther definitely was a revolutionary, but in what way didn't he go far enough? I thought ex-communication was pushing the envelope a bit, for those times.

 

[3 to be 4]

well, as for me, I totally reject that prejudice against Catholics. I found that a lot in the south, especially amongst Southern Baptists.
If a Catholic believes that Jesus died for their sins, is the Son of God, raised 3 days later, everything else is denominational difference.
So just to make it clear, its not across the board that Fundementalists or Evangelicals or whatever you want to label them, us, whatever, have this negative view toward Catholicism.
I certainly dont, and anyone who makes such an assumption about Christians are very mistaken

 

[thesmee1]

I understand where you're coming from,3 to be 4. It's just that some folks from the interdenominational church seem to get over zealous. I have a question, though. How do you feel about evangelizing overseas? A few years back, 2 women were taken hostage over in Afghanistan because of evangelizing. My opinion of that is that they never should've been there in the first place.

 

[nukin]

Catholic's where the first Christians, wern't they?

 

[3 to be 4]

I understand where you're coming from,3 to be 4. It's just that some folks from the interdenominational church seem to get over zealous. I have a question, though. How do you feel about evangelizing overseas? A few years back, 2 women were taken hostage over in Afghanistan because of evangelizing. My opinion of that is that they never should've been there in the first place.

well, its certainly not always safe, but that is the passion many people have and its what the Lord leads them to do, so i admire them very much.

Now if you mean, by them being over there, and getting captured, so that our soldiers then have to risk themselves to try saving them that is a very valid point. Its almost a political question at that point. If they asked by the military to not do that in war situation for the safety of all concerned then they probably should heed that warning.

 

[thesmee1]

Catholic's where the first Christians, wern't they?

I want to say that the Coptic Christians were the first. I'm probably wrong, though. I believe they have a sect over in Egypt. I find this fascinating though, that the majority of the fundamentalists, ( not all, ) believe that their way is the only way, and that all others are doomed. I have a friend who's a fundamentalist. I'm Catholic, and she invited me to visit her church, which I did. It was an evening service, and a kid about 12 was going to be baptized. The pastor asked him why he wanted to be baptized, and he replied, ' I saw the movie " Left Behind " and I don't want to be left behind.'

I sat there in utter shock that his parents would let him watch that movie at his age, and that this child was so scared from retribution from God that he felt compelled to do this. Myself, I think God made all these different religions to make the world interesting. Of course their are ultra- right wingers in all things that we do, including religion.

 

[thesmee1]

well, its certainly not always safe, but that is the passion many people have and its what the Lord leads them to do, so i admire them very much.

Now if you mean, by them being over there, and getting captured, so that our soldiers then have to risk themselves to try saving them that is a very valid point. Its almost a political question at that point. If they asked by the military to not do that in war situation for the safety of all concerned then they probably should heed that warning.

Some times passion over rules common sense. Like right wing evangelicals, right wing Islamists are very passionate and take their version of the Bible literally. How do you convert them?

I'd also like to hear your views on Buddhism (sp?).

 

[3 to be 4]

I want to say that the Coptic Christians were the first. I'm probably wrong, though. I believe they have a sect over in Egypt. I find this fascinating though, that the majority of the fundamentalists, ( not all, ) believe that their way is the only way, and that all others are doomed. I have a friend who's a fundamentalist. I'm Catholic, and she invited me to visit her church, which I did. It was an evening service, and a kid about 12 was going to be baptized. The pastor asked him why he wanted to be baptized, and he replied, ' I saw the movie " Left Behind " and I don't want to be left behind.'

I sat there in utter shock that his parents would let him watch that movie at his age, and that this child was so scared from retribution from God that he felt compelled to do this. Myself, I think God made all these different religions to make the world interesting. Of course their are ultra- right wingers in all things that we do, including religion.

careful with labeling and generalizing. Many people who believe in the Word of the Bible and of Heaven and Hell are liberals. 40% of self-proclaimed Christians are Democrats. 80% of Black Christians are Democrats. Have you ever gone to a blow the roof off Gospel singing Black Church? Those people are hardly "right-wingers" and believe me, you are going to hear the Pastor talking very clearly about Heaven and Hell.

I am also not impressed by isolated examples of "I saw this" or "I saw that".

this society is totally permeated with far more outrageous behavior by secular parents who allow their children to be exposed to violence,sex, and downright evil messages that are now accepted as "normal".

I went to a "community theatre" production to see my teenage neice and had the privilage of watching kids ages 12 through 18 perform a play about kids stabbing each other, drowning each other, hanging small children, and mixing it in jokes about "oooh careful, we dont want offend any Christians out there"
this was before I became a Christian and I knew it was Satanic!
and the most shocking part? everyone in the audience accept me and my elderly mother thought it was all wonderful and hysterical.

so you want stories of evil you've witnessed, read your headlines everyday.

and it goes much farther than parents sitting around watching South Park with their 10 year old kids. People are out to lunch. And the kids today have no chance without the goodness of God in them. maybe if you are 22 or 28 you cant see it because you grew up with it and think its normal.

But give me that kid 12 year old who loves the Lord and 100 like him over 100 kids raised by the standards of this society where evil is funny, life is discarded without thought, and decency and humanity a joke.

 

[thesmee1]

careful with labeling and generalizing. Many people who believe in the Word of the Bible and of Heaven and Hell are liberals. 40% of self-proclaimed Christians are Democrats. 80% of Black Christians are Democrats. Have you ever gone to a blow the roof off Gospel singing Black Church? Those people are hardly "right-wingers" and believe me, you are going to hear the Pastor talking very clearly about Heaven and Hell.

I am also not impressed by isolated examples of "I saw this" or "I saw that".

this society is totally permeated with far more outrageous behavior by secular parents who allow their children to be exposed to violence,sex, and downright evil messages that are now accepted as "normal".

I went to a "community theatre" production to see my teenage neice and had the privilage of watching kids ages 12 through 18 perform a play about kids stabbing each other, drowning each other, hanging small children, and mixing it in jokes about "oooh careful, we dont want offend any Christians out there"
this was before I became a Christian and I knew it was Satanic!
and the most shocking part? everyone in the audience accept me and my elderly mother thought it was all wonderful and hysterical.

so you want stories of evil you've witnessed, read your headlines everyday.

and it goes much farther than parents sitting around watching South Park with their 10 year old kids. People are out to lunch. And the kids today have no chance without the goodness of God in them. maybe if you are 22 or 28 you cant see it because you grew up with it and think its normal.

But give me that kid 12 year old who loves the Lord and 100 like him over 100 kids raised by the standards of this society where evil is funny, life is discarded without thought, and decency and humanity a joke.

I didn't mean to offend and generalize 3. If I came across as such, I do apologize. I'd like to know how you, yourself, would change things in a more positive way.

Also, you never answered my question in regards to Buddhism. How do you and most evangelicals feel about it?

 

[thesmee1]

You can't answer my question, can you? You know there's an agenda by the fundamentalists against Buddhists. Evangelicals are intolerant towards the most pacifist,quiet religion. Why? I don't understand it, and need some clarification.

 

[nukin]

I want to say that the Coptic Christians were the first. I'm probably wrong, though. I believe they have a sect over in Egypt. I find this fascinating though, that the majority of the fundamentalists, ( not all, ) believe that their way is the only way, and that all others are doomed. I have a friend who's a fundamentalist. I'm Catholic, and she invited me to visit her church, which I did. It was an evening service, and a kid about 12 was going to be baptized. The pastor asked him why he wanted to be baptized, and he replied, ' I saw the movie " Left Behind " and I don't want to be left behind.'

I sat there in utter shock that his parents would let him watch that movie at his age, and that this child was so scared from retribution from God that he felt compelled to do this. Myself, I think God made all these different religions to make the world interesting. Of course their are ultra- right wingers in all things that we do, including religion.

That is the "Forceful" Christian nature I was talking about on the other thread. It may not be them all, but it definitly is present. I know that as a kid I was forced to believe, because if I didn't I would be doomed to hell.

 

[3 to be 4]

You can't answer my question, can you? You know there's an agenda by the fundamentalists against Buddhists. Evangelicals are intolerant towards the most pacifist,quiet religion. Why? I don't understand it, and need some clarification.

wasnt avoiding you. I had to go to work.

i have no agenda against anybody. I talk about ************. I dont spend time railing against other religions.

explain the "Evangelicals are intolerant towards the most pacifist, quiet religion" who? when?

i wasnt "offended" necessarily by your other post, just pointing out that you have to careful about making sweeping generalizations about all Evangelicals.

for instance, i have no use for the Pat Robertsons and the loud mouth political tv preachers. they dont speak for me. thats just an example.

I believe in the Word of God, that ************ died for our sins, is the Son of God, rose again 3 days later. He lives through the Holy Spirit, and he will return to claim his people.

You believe that and you spend eternity with him. You dont and you dont.

But "intolerant" of other religions? not in any actions by me.

 

[wistahpatsfan]

wasnt avoiding you. I had to go to work.

i have no agenda against anybody. I talk about ************. I dont spend time railing against other religions.

32B4's right.
I've never heard him criticize any other religion. He's only saying what he believes. All religions by their nature demand that any adherent to that religion believe that their religion is the only possible truth. How else can it be a serious religion?

 

[3 to be 4]

32B4's right.
I've never heard him criticize any other religion. He's only saying what he believes. All religions by their nature demand that any adherent to that religion believe that their religion is the only possible truth. How else can it be a serious religion?

that is what im saying. Im talking of the good news of ************.
Belief is a conviction. If others feels its an attack maybe their hearts are in conflict.
But that is for them to deal with.
In one thread I offered scriptural reasons for other Jews to consider that Jesus was the Messiah talked of. Jewish people could disagree if they wanted. But I wasnt attacking them.
If a Catholic believes in ************ they are just as Saved as the next Christian. People of other faiths, whatever it is, I respect you. But I am comissioned by my faith to spread the word of God. I do so without disrespect or hostility or insult.

But because of my faith I cannot keep silent and let souls slip away. Life is too short and ive lost people in my own family this year, including my mother, and regret not talking of the Lord to her more. As nobody can know what is in anothers heart between they and God, I pray she in her last moments reached out to Him. Thats all I can do.

The enemy of God would like Christians such as myself to simply blend in, not offend, be lukewarm, water down the Gospel as to not hurt others feelings. Of course he does, because then his mission is accomplished. Another soul seperated from God and captured into darkness.

it would be easy to be that ordinary, run of the mill, Christian of the world. But that is not what Jesus asked of us. That is not what the disciples, who went to horrible deaths, did. And that is what Christians of today are supposed to do. Go to church on Sunday, blend into the sinning world unnoticed, and just take the rewards of Salvation.

That is not a loving, Christ like thing to do. And if you read the New Testament thoroughly, you will see where im coming from.

Mty motives are only of Christs love. Reject it if you feel you must. But its important you understand where im coming from.

 

[wistahpatsfan]

...it would be easy to be that ordinary, run of the mill, Christian of the world. But that is not what Jesus asked of us. That is not what the disciples, who went to horrible deaths, did. And that is what Christians of today are supposed to do. Go to church on Sunday, blend into the sinning world unnoticed, and just take the rewards of Salvation.

That is not a loving, Christ like thing to do. And if you read the New Testament thoroughly, you will see where im coming from.

Mty motives are only of Christs love. Reject it if you feel you must. But its important you understand where im coming from.

I totally understand you. I read the NT inside and out, up and down. I've read many essays in its interpretation. Aquinas, Campbell, some the best. I still don't believe in supernatural gods controlling time, fate, and the lives of men. I know you do, and your conviction and testimony is cool with me because you are as devout as I am. You just happen to be wrong and I am right. When discussing religion, that's about the size of it.

I do recognize and respect your devoutness. One of my best friends is a devout Rastafarian, and we enjoy much mutual respect for each other.

 

[3 to be 4]

I totally understand you. I read the NT inside and out, up and down. I've read many essays in its interpretation. Aquinas, Campbell, some the best. I still don't believe in supernatural gods controlling time, fate, and the lives of men. I know you do, and your conviction and testimony is cool with me because you are as devout as I am. You just happen to be wrong and I am right. When discussing religion, that's about the size of it.

I do recognize and respect your devoutness. One of my best friends is a devout Rastafarian, and we enjoy much mutual respect for each other.

thats very cool. I appreciate the civility of what you said and how you said it. I wish that is how the discourse could be more often. You sound like someone who is very secure in who you are and what you believe.

But as I said earlier, I do understand the hostility from most non-believers and where it comes from, although im still amazed by the level of hostility it generates amongst New Englanders.

Thanks for disagreeing with me without calling me names. its refreshing!

 

[BruschiOnTap]

That's what I mean. I can read the Bible, and get one interpretation. My neighbor can read it, and get something totally different out of it. If you want to live by it, that's cool, but 3 to be 4 seems to think if you're not 'born again' and live by the Bible word for word, you can face eternity treading lava.

Luther definitely was a revolutionary, but in what way didn't he go far enough? I thought ex-communication was pushing the envelope a bit, for those times.

Well, it was pretty easy to be excommunicated back in the day... I guess Luther went far enough but most people who followed didn't. It probably wasn't possible back then, but I think protestants who came after him should have treated the Catholic church as the hollow institution it always was and rejected its Bible translations, creeds, ceremonies, and traditions (including church on Sunday and the method for reckoning Easter). However, they probably had no knowledge of what came before the Roman church, like the Celtic church, Coptics, Gnostics, etc. I am a non-Christian (and anti-organized religion) and hate partisanism in general, but to see protestant and catholic church leaders co-mingling bothers me greatly. nobody should ever forgive the Roman church for its crimes against humanity or allow it to wear a mantle of authority for all pre-16th century religious matters.