4-3, 3-4 starters?

[farn]

Linebackers in 4-3

Regardless of BB's comments regarding the media created 4-3 vs 3-4, I have a few questions regarding the linebackers if in fact NE uses a 4-3 more than in previous years...

Can I assume that our three linebackers in this situation would primarily be Mayo, Guyton, Spikes ? If so, who are then the reserves ? I would guess Fletcher, as it seems Ninko, Cunningham, and Moore would be on the line. Finally, what is the primary change in responsabilities for the linebackers if indeed there is a shift to the 4-3 ?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Jared]

Re: Linebackers in 4-3

Depends on the game plan and match ups. Mayo will always be there, Spikes seems like he'll always be in on first down unless it is against a pass first team. Guyton and Nink are probably interchangeable depending on game plan.

Cunningham is probably going to mostly be seen in sub packages.

 

[LesPaul]

Re: Linebackers in 4-3

Cuningham, Moore, and Nink will be playing DE in the 4-3. Spikes will be MLB and Mayo on the right, with Guyton on the left side.

 

[Sciz]

Re: Linebackers in 4-3

Ninkovich strikes me as a possible OLB in the 4-3. He has iffy top speed, but is pretty good in space and is not a quality every-down pass rusher at DE.

 

[patsfan13]

Re: Linebackers in 4-3

Fletcher will play a lot against the pass as will Guyton. Cunningham can play either DE of OLB depending on a 3 or 4 man front, Cunningham and Mayo will be 3 down players IMO, or passing downs if you want 3 LB I would guess Mayo Guyton Fletcher. However most o fht e time in passing situations we will be in a nickle or dime package.

 

[Jared]

Re: Linebackers in 4-3

Nink reminds me of a younger Bruschi. Remember Tedy was only serviceable for some time, and came into the league as an undersized, slow edge rusher transitioning to LB. He eventually played OLB in a 4-3, before moving inside.

I don't know that Nink will have the same career path (and certainly can't guarantee the same level of success), but I merely note that it isn't crazy.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Linebackers in 4-3

Regardless of BB's comments regarding the media created 4-3 vs 3-4, I have a few questions regarding the linebackers if in fact NE uses a 4-3 more than in previous years...

Can I assume that our three linebackers in this situation would primarily be Mayo, Guyton, Spikes ? If so, who are then the reserves ? I would guess Fletcher, as it seems Ninko, Cunningham, and Moore would be on the line. Finally, what is the primary change in responsabilities for the linebackers if indeed there is a shift to the 4-3 ?

Thanks in advance.

If we play a 43, we are likely to use the same personell as in the 34. That is, we would have one 260lb or so DE, but we certainly won't have 2.
Think of it this way:
Take your 34
Shift the DL to strength, now over ST, SG, WG.
Shift your LBs to weak, putting the WOLB in a 3 point stance.
Your LBs are now over TE, C, T, TEarea

So, Cunningham becomes a DE, probably Moore as well. Ninkovich is still an OLB.
We will still have 3 300lb DL, because we will not abandon run defense.

 

[ay-yo]

Re: Linebackers in 4-3

If we play a 43, we are likely to use the same personell as in the 34. That is, we would have one 260lb or so DE, but we certainly won't have 2.
Think of it this way:
Take your 34
Shift the DL to strength, now over ST, SG, WG.
Shift your LBs to weak, putting the WOLB in a 3 point stance.
Your LBs are now over TE, C, T, TEarea

So, Cunningham becomes a DE, probably Moore as well. Ninkovich is still an OLB.
We will still have 3 300lb DL, because we will not abandon run defense.

This is what I envision. This personel allows to easily switch between the 3-4 and 4-3 on any given play. The deception is returning to our defense. I see Mayo, Spikes, Cunningham, Wilfork and Haynesworth as locks. The "oversized DE" and the Sam are up for grabs IMO.

I could see somebody like Wright playing as the over sized DE instead of a Brace / Ty Warren type player. I also see Fletcher and Nink competing for the 3rd linebacker spot. Guyton has an outside shot as well.

Thoughts?

 

[farn]

Re: Linebackers in 4-3

Thanks for responses - in the end I suppose there'll be so much situational subbing that it'll be difficult to "list a starting lineup" since sub packages will be used often.

I wonder who will have the most planning time on D. I enjoy it when Reiss breaks it down after the weekend. I'd have to guess Mayo and McCourty will be in on almost every play. Maybe Bodden and Chung get a high percentage of plays in too...

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Linebackers in 4-3

Nink reminds me of a younger Bruschi. Remember Tedy was only serviceable for some time, and came into the league as an undersized, slow edge rusher transitioning to LB. He eventually played OLB in a 4-3, before moving inside.

I don't know that Nink will have the same career path (and certainly can't guarantee the same level of success), but I merely note that it isn't crazy.

Bruschi came in as an Undersized DE who played DE and DT in college and was a top sack leader at one point.. He was not considered "slow" by any stretch of the imagination... He didn't transition to OLB until 1998 when he replaced the injured Todd Collins.. Bruschi didn't move inside until 2002, playing MLB in the 4-3. He moved to ILB in 2003 when the Pats went to the 3-4 full-time.

Ninkovich compares more to Vrabel than to Bruschi. Ninkovich is 6'3 1/8" tall and is in the 250 range. Bruschi is 6'0 and 5/8" and 245-255 lbs.

 

[patsfan-1982]

Re: Linebackers in 4-3

unless its 3rd and short i dont see the pats useing 3 LB's with there 4-3 i see a lot of nickle and dime packages being played

 

[fumbrunner]

Well, certainly an interesting couple days with all the DL signings. Anyone want to hazard a guess as to how the 4-3 and 3-4 fronts may look like to start the season?

Something like this perhaps?

3-4:
Warren Wilfork Ellis/Wright

4-3:
Carter Haynesworth Wilfork Ellis/Wright

Do Cunningham and Moore move back to OLB in a 3-4? where does Anderson fit in if he sticks?

 

[jah]

I was thinking the front 7 would look like this, except I don't know who plays which side:

4-3:
Moore-Wilfork-Haynesworth-Cunningham
Guyton-Spikes-Mayo

3-4:
Ellis/Wright-Wilfork-Haynesworth
Ninkovich-Spikes-Mayo-Cunningham

 

[Sciz]

Ellis - Wilfork - Haynesworth - Carter

Ellis - Wilfork - Haynesworth

 

[fumbrunner]

I was thinking the front 7 would look like this, except I don't know who plays which side:

4-3:
Moore-Wilfork-Haynesworth-Cunningham
Guyton-Spikes-Mayo

3-4:
Ellis/Wright-Wilfork-Haynesworth
Ninkovich-Spikes-Mayo-Cunningham

With Ellis coming in at starter's $$, he figures to play an important role. Not sure how much we'll see Cunningham with his hand in the dirt. Carter has been an effective player in the 4-3 as well. Lots of interesting scenarios.

 

[fumbrunner]

Given Haynesworth's (bad) history with the 3-4, its interesting that people see him in there when they are showing that front.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I was thinking the front 7 would look like this, except I don't know who plays which side:

4-3:
Moore-Wilfork-Haynesworth-Cunningham
Guyton-Spikes-Mayo

One thing, though, is that if you look at the number of big bodies the Patriots have it seems almost inconceivable that they'd leave almost all of them on the bench in the 4-3.

Personally, I think BB is aiming for a "giant" 4-3 where the 3-4 DEs also play a lot of DE in the 40 fronts.

 

[jah]

Given Haynesworth's (bad) history with the 3-4, its interesting that people see him in there when they are showing that front.

I think his problem with the 3-4 was playing NT, but he might not mind DE.

 

[Sciz]

Given Haynesworth's (bad) history with the 3-4, its interesting that people see him in there when they are showing that front.

If he gets his chances to shine in the 4-3, I don't think some two-gapping here and there would kill him.

 

[HomerSchooled]

I think his problem with the 3-4 was playing NT, but he might not mind DE.

Exactly. I've wondered about this myself. With Wilfork and now G.Warren here, he shouldn't be asked to play much NT, if at all. But I've read stories that cited a refusal to commit to any sort of 3-4 situation, too. He certainly has everything you'd look for in a 3-4 DE, besides desire issues. Is 4-3 DT really all that much more glamorous?