Who will fill in for TBC at OLB?

[Patsfanin Philly]

Adam Seward. Someone had to say it.

Or Monty Beisel????
:singing:

 

[ay-yo]

Clay Matthews is fairly average against the run. That hasn't stopped him from being an impact player.

The Pats OLB's appear to be situational opposite Cunningham atm.

Sorry but what's your point? Idk how Matthews fits into what I was saying.

 

[ausbacker]

IMO Bill wants 4 all around (run / rush / coverage) LB's. Then Bill can stay in the 3-4 and bring pressure from anywhere and disguise where it's coming from. Of course these players aren't easy to find especially when you add the measurable restrictions.

The guy I could see coming to us is Manny Lawson. He adds something to the OLB spot that we currently don't have (+ coverage ability). I've heard mixed reviews about his run support. His pass rush skills look average. So he seems to be what Bill would want (an all around player). I think he'd represent an upgrade over Ninko and would come a realistic price. He wouldn't take the defense to new heights but he'd be an upgrade and should be entering the prime of his career.

Sorry but what's your point? Idk how Matthews fits into what I was saying.

I would have thought it was an obvious one. You said Manny Lawson is a well rounded LB with average pass rushing ability and questionable run support reviews. Clay Matthews is an above average pass rusher and an average to below average run supporter linebacker.

My question is, if Lawson has been reviewed as being well rounded yet average in both run support and pass rushing what's the point of bringing him in when we already have situational linebackers who appear to be better than him at one or the other?

With someone like Matthews, despite his deficiencies you know he's a game changer. Lawson hasn't shown that at any stage of his NFL career.

 

[Mark Morse]

Free Agent Matt Roth

UDFA Marc Schiechl Colorado School of Mines 6’2” 252 4.65 38 Bench Reps – DII
career sack leader with 46 sacks, 4th all-time for Tackles for loss 70.5. Yes
it was against inferior competition, but someone with that kind of production
needs an opportunity to show what he can do (Danny Woodhead come to mind). In
fact he played against Woodhead. Remember that Jerry Rice was a DII player as
well. Have you ever heard of something called the Kirwin Explosiveness Index
(KEI). This was developed by NFL.com’s Pat Kirwin to measure a players
explosiveness or in the case of a DE or LB, potential for rushing the passer.
It is a combination of Bench Reps, Broad Jump and Vertical Jump. A rating of 70
indicates the player is explosive. Schiechl is off the charts at 83 (BR 38, BJ
10, VJ 35) and he runs a 4.65

 

[spacecrime]

Who are big name FAs they could get?? They have to go to FA right?

Amnazing what an injury will do for a guy. Last month he couldn't set the edge and was a liability in coverage.

Now he is going to miss the first half of training camp and he can only be replaced by Lamar Woodley.

And if we can't get Lamar Woodley to replace him for the 4-5 weeks of off-season and training camp he will miss, it must be a big name.

Forget about developing all the OLBs who played their first year with the Pats last year. We need a NAME.

 

[spacecrime]

The Pats have borderline nothing at OLB right now. They've hit the point where they have to take risks at the position, there's really no way around it IMO. Unless of course you enjoyed watching Mark Sanchez shredding our defense in the playoffs because he had all day to throw. 0 sacks 0 hits speaks for itself.

14-2, allowing under 20 points a game are the numbers that speak for themselves. No team ever beat another team 5 sacks to 2.

 

[ay-yo]

I would have thought it was an obvious one. You said Manny Lawson is a well rounded LB with average pass rushing ability and questionable run support reviews. Clay Matthews is an above average pass rusher and an average to below average run supporter linebacker.

My question is, if Lawson has been reviewed as being well rounded yet average in both run support and pass rushing what's the point of bringing him in when we already have situational linebackers who appear to be better than him at one or the other?

With someone like Matthews, despite his deficiencies you know he's a game changer. Lawson hasn't shown that at any stage of his NFL career.

The point is that with Lawson you do not telegraph to the offense what a player's role is. Bill wants this for his defense IMO so he can create pressure through his blitzes, scheme, etc.

With TBC injured Lawson would be our best pass rusher from OLB. He'd also be our best coverage OLB. As I stated earlier I believe he would bring an upgrade, not gigantic but noticeable, to our defense.

Is Lawson on Matthews level? Clearly no. But I don't expect the team to replace TBC with a pro bowl caliber OLB.

 

[ausbacker]

The point is that with Lawson you do not telegraph to the offense what a player's role is. Bill wants this for his defense IMO so he can create pressure through his blitzes, scheme, etc.

With TBC injured Lawson would be our best pass rusher from OLB. He'd also be our best coverage OLB. As I stated earlier I believe he would bring an upgrade, not gigantic but noticeable, to our defense.

Is Lawson on Matthews level? Clearly no. But I don't expect the team to replace TBC with a pro bowl caliber OLB.

I can't agree with that. I'd rather telegraph an intention rather than bring in a below average jack of all trades given the singular role players are more outstanding than Lawson in the single package.

I'm sure a better compliment could be found.

 

[ay-yo]

I can't agree with that. I'd rather telegraph an intention rather than bring in a below average jack of all trades given the singular role players are more outstanding than Lawson in the single package.

Do you view Nink as a better pass rusher than Lawson?

Do you view Nink as a better coverage LB than Lawson?

I'm sure a better compliment could be found.

If you're so sure then how bout some names.

 

[Deus Irae]

Do you view Nink as a better pass rusher than Lawson?

Do you view Nink as a better coverage LB than Lawson?

Lawson's sack numbers:

2.5
0 (lost year, 2 game season)
3.0
6.5
2.5

Last year, Ninkovich had 4.0 sacks, bettering all but one of Lawson's seasons. I don't see how you figure Lawson as a sure fire upgrade as a pass rusher.

 

[ausbacker]

Do you view Nink as a better pass rusher than Lawson?

In 2010 yes.

Do you view Nink as a better coverage LB than Lawson?

Can't say.

If you're so sure then how bout some names.

There's really nobody outside of the usual names people are putting up who would be a major, I reiterate major upgrade to what we already have outside of Kiwanuka (whose returning from injury which makes him suspect already). That is, unless you're happy to go after a stud in a trade. I haven't seen too many OLB's who were studs given up in trades in recent times if any.

 

[andrewgarrr]

Adalius Thomas

 

[ay-yo]

Lawson's sack numbers:

2.5
0 (lost year, 2 game season)
3.0
6.5
2.5

Last year, Ninkovich had 4.0 sacks, bettering all but one of Lawson's seasons. I don't see how you figure Lawson as a sure fire upgrade as a pass rusher.

Sure fire? Perhaps not. But career totals:

Nink - 38 games / 5 sacks = 1 sack every 7.6 games
Lawson - 64 games / 14.5 games = 1 sack every 4.4 games

 

[Froob]

The Pats have borderline nothing at OLB right now. They've hit the point where they have to take risks at the position, there's really no way around it IMO. Unless of course you enjoyed watching Mark Sanchez shredding our defense in the playoffs because he had all day to throw. 0 sacks 0 hits speaks for itself.

Agreed, if the risk pays off it could be huge. If he appears healthy sign him and give up the 2nd imo. For Christ sakes, pats haven't sacked Peyton since 07.

 

[Deus Irae]

Sure fire? Perhaps not. But career totals:

Nink - 38 games / 5 sacks = 1 sack every 7.6 games
Lawson - 64 games / 14.5 games = 1 sack every 4.4 games

Ninkovich had never even started a game until this past season. After this past season, Lawson has 57 starts to Ninkovich's 10. I'm not a rabid Ninkovich supporter, to put it mildly but, in his first season as a starter, he outdid every Lawson year but one. If you want to play the comparison game, start there.

From the SF Gate:

Is Aldon Smith a pass-rush prodigy with his 11.5 sacks as a redshirt freshman or is he another lanky athlete without a quick first step like Manny Lawson?

49ers draft evaluation ... for 2009 : Niner Insider

Not exactly the sort of trait you're looking for in a pass rusher.

 

[captain stone]

For Christ sakes, pats haven't sacked Peyton since 07.

I wasn't aware of that. Damn, that's pathetic.

As for who replaces Tubby Banta Cain't: based on his production last year, I nominate a tackling dummy. Think of the cap savings, and of the upgrade on edge-setting.

 

[ay-yo]

Ninkovich had never even started a game until this past season. After this past season, Lawson has 57 starts to Ninkovich's 10. I'm not a rabid Ninkovich supporter, to put it mildly but, in his first season as a starter, he outdid every Lawson year but one. If you want to play the comparison game, start there.

I feel as though not being good enough to see the field shouldn't be used as evidence of why Nink is better.

BTW where do you find the stats about starting? ESPN just shows games played.

 

[Deus Irae]

I feel as though not being good enough to see the field shouldn't be used as evidence of why Nink is better.

I feel as though coming along slowly means you're coming along slowly. Do you count Brady's year on the bench against him when you compare him to other QBs, because he wasn't ready to be Brady from day one?

BTW where do you find the stats about starting? ESPN just shows games played.

Pro-Football-Reference.com - Pro Football Statistics and History

 

[Frick]

I suggest Keith Darbut, Baldwin Wallace -40-4.40, bp-26, vj-38, bj-10-6
He's six four and 229, sounds alot like Von Miller,problaby cost 10k to bring him in.