Offensive UDFA's I'd Like to Bring In

[Snake Eyes]

Why is everyone obsessed with a running back that never even played? The snaps he did play were against joke schools. If a RB can't play college ball then he sure as hell can't play in the NFL.

You just contradicted yourself, there is a WORLD of difference between “never even played” and playing against weak opponents, by your “logic” a team shouldn’t ever take a player from a small school because of their weak competition. One might not want to spend a high pick on a small school player but grabbing one as a UDFA is hardly a big risk. The eye test says he has some nice skills but also has a fumble issue, he’s the perfect low-risk high reward project, I’d love to bring him into camp and see what he can do.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

I think that Bartholomew from Syracuse is a NFL player, I would take a shot at him.

 

[captain stone]

There has to be room on the Practice Squad for at least one of the centers!

If not on the 53 itself.

We need a complete overhaul of our backup interior OL.
Connolly is replacing Neal, and the 2 weak midgets Wendell & 4th-round mistake (again)
Lil'Richie OBurger are the worst backup C/G combo in football. Both of them - not one of them -
must go.

The entire OL is teetering on the precipice of total disaster.

 

[DaBruinz]

If not on the 53 itself.

We need a complete overhaul of our backup interior OL.
Connolly is replacing Neal, and the 2 weak midgets Wendell & 4th-round mistake (again)
Lil'Richie OBurger are the worst backup C/G combo in football. Both of them - not one of them -
must go.

The entire OL is teetering on the precipice of total disaster.

*sigh* and you base this on your years of NFL Coaching experience, right?? Hmm.. forgot that you don't have any NFL coaching experience.. Then it must be your years of NFL Scouting experience... Oh wait.. you don't have that either.

There is no guarantee that Connolly is replacing Neal. You seem to have forgotten that Kaczur is back and could be lined up at RG. Where he has taken game snaps before. .. You also seem to have forgotten that pesky little time called Free agency that hasn't occurred yet..

 

[Don Kipines]

If not on the 53 itself.

We need a complete overhaul of our backup interior OL.
Connolly is replacing Neal, and the 2 weak midgets Wendell & 4th-round mistake (again)
Lil'Richie OBurger are the worst backup C/G combo in football. Both of them - not one of them -
must go.

The entire OL is teetering on the precipice of total disaster.

We're not in the best shape, but it's hardly a disaster back there.

Connolly is likely your primary backup center, and he's fine there. If he's the starting right guard, which I doubt anyway (it's probably Kaczur, or a free agent, or Cannon, down the line), then he'd still probably slide over and the replacement would be at right guard. You could put Kaczur or Cannon in there, or, if we're just going by the current roster, someone like Ojinnaka. Finding a fill-in guard is easier than finding a center, and as it happens we have at least two guys, Koppen and Connolly, who can play starting-caliber center.

And I don't get where you see that Wendell is such a terrible player. He's seemed okay the few times I've seen him.

 

[patchick]

The entire OL is teetering on the precipice of total disaster.

I know others have already responded to this, but let's take a look at the actual OL roster, shall we? Let's assume that Light leaves but Mankins plays under the franchise tag. That gives us the following roster at this point (* indicates players listed under multiple positions):

Tackles:
Vollmer
Solder
Kaczur*
LeVoir
Cannon*

Guards:
Mankins
Connolly
Kaczur*
Cannon*
Wendell*
Ohrnberger

Center:
Koppen
Wendell*

To start with, we're fielding two Pro Bowl-caliber linemen in the prime of their careers in Mankins and Vollmer. Then there's the veteran starting center, Koppen.

So we need to fill in 2 more starting slots, one RG and one T (could be either side). Our options for those 2 slots include a 1st-round rookie LT who's raw but one of the most athletically gifted o-linemen ever; a versatile veteran T/G who has started 62 NFL games but is coming off injury; a young veteran G who mostly been a backup but who has started very capably when called upon; a veteran swing tackle who has seldom started but has played in 32 games for this team; a powerful rookie RT/RG with tons of talent who is recovering from chemotherapy.

IMO plenty of teams would be happy with that "disaster." The weakest point looks like backup center, but I can't imagine Wendell is worse than the league average backup center.

Long term, a real deal for Mankins and a successor for Koppen are clearly priorities.

 

[fester]

I know others have already responded to this, but let's take a look at the actual OL roster, shall we...

To start with, we're fielding two Pro Bowl-caliber linemen in the prime of their careers in Mankins and Vollmer. Then there's the veteran starting center, Koppen....

IMO plenty of teams would be happy with that "disaster." The weakest point looks like backup center, but I can't imagine Wendell is worse than the league average backup center.

Long term, a real deal for Mankins and a successor for Koppen are clearly priorities.

But, but, but PatChick, you're using logic and evidence and that is just unfair to Captain Stone and his awesome ax to grind.

 

[patchick]

But, but, but PatChick, you're using logic and evidence and that is just unfair to Captain Stone and his awesome ax to grind.

 

[mgteich]

While I generally agree, I think that the key to a solid line is having Kaczur available at near 100% or having Light. This also presumes Mankins.

So I agree, the issue is not the backups. They are as good as any in the league. Connolly was OK as a starter on both sides, and is OK as a backup center. So, in the end, Connolly is si an OK starter, but a perfect interior line backup player. Wendell is OK at backup center and guard. He has started. And I agree that he is as goo depth as most.

I see Ohrnberger being replaced on the roster by Cannon, either in Game 1 or after the PUP deadline. Either way, this is our inactive ionterioor lineman and matters little unless there are two injuries.

The issue is whether we will start Game 1 with two of Mankins, a healthy Kaczur (or Light.

Vollmer, Solder, Kaczur/Light, LeVoir/Maneri
Koppen, Mankins, Connolly, Wendell, Cannon/Ohrnberger

ADDITIONS

I would like to see us sign at LEAST one of the UDFA centers for the Practice Squad.

I'm with deus on this one. I would add a veteran OG/C if we can get one. The requirement would be that he would better than Connolly or Kaczur at OG. This player would be expected to start at RG. But there is no NEED, just a potential opportunity for upgrade.

I know others have already responded to this, but let's take a look at the actual OL roster, shall we? Let's assume that Light leaves but Mankins plays under the franchise tag. That gives us the following roster at this point (* indicates players listed under multiple positions):

Tackles:
Vollmer
Solder
Kaczur*
LeVoir
Cannon*

Guards:
Mankins
Connolly
Kaczur*
Cannon*
Wendell*
Ohrnberger

Center:
Koppen
Wendell*

To start with, we're fielding two Pro Bowl-caliber linemen in the prime of their careers in Mankins and Vollmer. Then there's the veteran starting center, Koppen.

So we need to fill in 2 more starting slots, one RG and one T (could be either side). Our options for those 2 slots include a 1st-round rookie LT who's raw but one of the most athletically gifted o-linemen ever; a versatile veteran T/G who has started 62 NFL games but is coming off injury; a young veteran G who mostly been a backup but who has started very capably when called upon; a veteran swing tackle who has seldom started but has played in 32 games for this team; a powerful rookie RT/RG with tons of talent who is recovering from chemotherapy.

IMO plenty of teams would be happy with that "disaster." The weakest point looks like backup center, but I can't imagine Wendell is worse than the league average backup center.

Long term, a real deal for Mankins and a successor for Koppen are clearly priorities.

 

[captain stone]

We're not in the best shape, but it's hardly a disaster back there.

Connolly is likely your primary backup center, and he's fine there. If he's the starting right guard, which I doubt anyway (it's probably Kaczur, or a free agent, or Cannon, down the line), then he'd still probably slide over and the replacement would be at right guard. You could put Kaczur or Cannon in there, or, if we're just going by the current roster, someone like Ojinnaka. Finding a fill-in guard is easier than finding a center, and as it happens we have at least two guys, Koppen and Connolly, who can play starting-caliber center.

And I don't get where you see that Wendell is such a terrible player. He's seemed okay the few times I've seen him.

I would be very surprised if Connolly isn't the starting RG out of TC. OxyKaczur, if he doesn't accept a salary cut, will likely be a cap casualty; I'm not sure that a free agent can learn enough about Dante's system to assume the starting RG spot by Opening Day; and I wouldn't be surprised to see Cannon PUPed to start the season, though his recovery thus far is certainly encouraging.

I believe that Ojinnaka is a UFA; if he signs elsewhere, it's no loss at all. I wouldn't have traded even the 7th-rounder it took to acquire him.

How much longer can Koppen play even adequate starting-caliber Center? I don't know if he's doing that now. And remember, Brady has officially become a Statue in the pocket; if he can't step up to throw, then we're screwed. He has lost whatever lateral agility he may have once possesed. He'd rather take a sack then try to run for a 1st down.

Wendell may be better than OBurger, but that's damning with faint praise. I would've kept Ted Larsen & Eric Ghiaciuc ahead of both of them at the end of TC last year.

 

[DaBruinz]

I
Wendell may be better than OBurger, but that's damning with faint praise. I would've kept Ted Larsen & Eric Ghiaciuc ahead of both of them at the end of TC last year.

Yes, who cares if Larsen and Ghiaciuc weren't as good as Wendell and Ohrnberger. BB should have listened to Captain Stone and his 5 rings.. OH.. Wait.. I forgot.. It's BB that has the 5 rings..

 

[patchick]

I would be very surprised if Connolly isn't the starting RG out of TC. OxyKaczur, if he doesn't accept a salary cut, will likely be a cap casualty; I'm not sure that a free agent can learn enough about Dante's system to assume the starting RG spot by Opening Day...

Hold on a second. You're assuming Connolly starts because even a veteran FA can't be expected to pick up the system fast enough for game 1. OK, that's a reasonable position. But then why the heck are you cutting Kaczur, the most experienced tackle on the roster??

 

[patchick]

While I generally agree, I think that the key to a solid line is having Kaczur available at near 100% or having Light. This also presumes Mankins.

. . .

ADDITIONS

I would like to see us sign at LEAST one of the UDFA centers for the Practice Squad.

I'm with deus on this one. I would add a veteran OG/C if we can get one. The requirement would be that he would better than Connolly or Kaczur at OG. This player would be expected to start at RG. But there is no NEED, just a potential opportunity for upgrade.

Totally agree. Kaczur's health is key -- I'd be surprised to see them re-sign Light, simply because if I were Light, I'd prefer a situation where there wasn't a hotshot first-round rookie slotted to take my job by game 8.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Yes, who cares if Larsen and Ghiaciuc weren't as good as Wendell and Ohrnberger. BB should have listened to Captain Stone and his 5 rings.. OH.. Wait.. I forgot.. It's BB that has the 5 rings..

Sorry to burst your bubble but BB is not perfect, he even admitted that he made a mistake by not getting Peyton Hillis, while I have coveted Hillis since I first saw him in 2008. I also wanted Jared Veldheer, who is an emerging stud LT, while BB chose to pass on him.

 

[patchick]

Sorry to burst your bubble but BB is not perfect, he even admitted that he made a mistake by not getting Peyton Hillis, while I have coveted Hillis since I first saw him in 2008. I also wanted Jared Veldheer, who is an emerging stud LT, while BB chose to pass on him.

Hold on...does it count as a "mistake" for every team in the league every time any player they don't draft turns out to be good? Surely no team is going to draft EVERY good player.

The Patriots had a spectacularly productive 2nd round last year. All 3 players they drafted filled clear needs, logged 8+ starts as rookies and are expected to be core players for the team this season. But that's now a "mistake" because another good player was available at another position too?

Personally, I reserve the "mistake" label for major busts (especially when their failings were relatively foreseeable); for failures to address a clear position of need (e.g. they waited to long to restock ILB); and for cases where they had an obvious choice between 2 players and chose wrong.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Hold on...does it count as a "mistake" for every team in the league every time any player they don't draft turns out to be good? Surely no team is going to draft EVERY good player.

The Patriots had a spectacularly productive 2nd round last year. All 3 players they drafted filled clear needs, logged 8+ starts as rookies and are expected to be core players for the team this season. But that's now a "mistake" because another good player was available at another position too?

Personally, I reserve the "mistake" label for major busts (especially when their failings were relatively foreseeable); for failures to address a clear position of need (e.g. they waited to long to restock ILB); and for cases where they had an obvious choice between 2 players and chose wrong.

I never said it was a "mistake", we did VERY well with last year's draft, I only think that with some tweaks it could have been better. My only point is that BB is not perfect, the previous poster's comments were essentially "how DARE you criticize BB, he has 5 rings and you have none", I disagree and used those 2 examples to illustrate that BB is not perfect, to which he has admitted.

Talking about this kinda stuff is fun, there wouldnt be much of a PatsFans if everyone adhered to "BB is infallible" dogma.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Hold on...does it count as a "mistake" for every team in the league every time any player they don't draft turns out to be good? Surely no team is going to draft EVERY good player.

The Patriots had a spectacularly productive 2nd round last year. All 3 players they drafted filled clear needs, logged 8+ starts as rookies and are expected to be core players for the team this season. But that's now a "mistake" because another good player was available at another position too?

Personally, I reserve the "mistake" label for major busts (especially when their failings were relatively foreseeable); for failures to address a clear position of need (e.g. they waited to long to restock ILB); and for cases where they had an obvious choice between 2 players and chose wrong.

e.g., drafting Bo Ruud over Gary Guyton?

 

[patchick]

e.g., drafting Bo Ruud over Gary Guyton?

:eat1:

The rare mistake that cost them nothing! (Seriously, whatever did they see in Ruud?)

Seriously, I try not to give "mistake" labels to picks toward the end of the draft, and certainly not on misses where EVERYBODY had tons of chances.

 

[captain stone]

Hold on a second. You're assuming Connolly starts because even a veteran FA can't be expected to pick up the system fast enough for game 1. OK, that's a reasonable position. But then why the heck are you cutting Kaczur, the most experienced tackle on the roster??

Because Kaczur doesn't deserve to make even close to his cap hit.
If he's willing to restructure, then he can stay; if he isn't, then sayonara.
Truth is, his play has been barely above replacement-level since his meds were taken away.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

:eat1:

The rare mistake that cost them nothing! (Seriously, whatever did they see in Ruud?)

Seriously, I try not to give "mistake" labels to picks toward the end of the draft, and certainly not on misses where EVERYBODY had tons of chances.

Thankfully, it worked out, but don't forget that when BB called Guyton to try and sign him, Guyton's biggest question was "Why did you draft Bo Ruud instead of me?"

And, to answer your question, "Barrett."