Welker on potential lockout end, and a new CBA clause

[ctpatsfan77]

Apparently, one of the new points in the agreement is an end to two-a-day full-pad workouts; teams will still be allowed to have two-a-days, but the second practice will have to be walkthroughs/jogthroughs with no helmets.

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[Frezo]

What a coincidence. My workplace has new rules too. After lunch break my standard office chair gets switched to a Lazy Boy recliner and the coffee maker turns into a cappuccino machine. "Afternoon crumpets are on me fellas!"

 

[DaBruinz]

You can damn well bet that BB is going to have the jog-through in the morning and the Full Pads in the afternoon when it's nice and hot.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

You can damn well bet that BB is going to have the jog-through in the morning and the Full Pads in the afternoon when it's nice and hot.

Granted, we won't know until the final deal is announced, but the way the interviewer explained it, it sounds as if they're going to explicitly forbid that.

 

[serifyn]

Maybe they can just skip the workouts altogether and just play madden against their foes that week.

 

[serifyn]

oops double post

 

[MoLewisrocks]

If it helps minimalize wear and tear and increases health and safety I'm fine with it...I just hope this 11th hour h&s push on the players part includes them not balking at improved drug testing to level the field so guys aren't getting whacked by juiced up or otherwise enhanced opponents and increasing penalties like suspensions for blatent head hunters and guys who launch and target knees ingame....

 

[patsfan-1982]

so the players want a brake later in the day big deal they will still give 100% on sunday and the owners will still make more money then they will ever spend in there life time lets sign the papers and play some real football

 

[serifyn]

On a serious note regarding this, the reduced full pads workout might not be a huge deal for veterans, but for rookies and other players new to the NFL who arent used to the speed of the NFL game it might be problematic.

Full pads practice is much more like the game than the no pads, half effort w/e practice for sure, im not sure how it will translate.

luckily for the patriots, their game has always been more mental than most teams, you can be sure that whatever time players would have been spent sweating it out in full pads will instead be diverted into extra film study instead, which if you have smart players like the patriots have, will or should translate.

 

[Triumph]

Maybe they can just skip the workouts altogether and just play madden against their foes that week.

And, there will be no yelling or name calling at a player in front of others because it might make them feel bad.

 

[patfanken]

If it helps minimalize wear and tear and increases health and safety I'm fine with it...

Couldn't disagree with you more. The "whoossification" of the NFL continues. Practicing IN PADS at full speed is a NECESSARY aspect to quality performance on the field. To literally cut in HALF the opportunities and quality reps players have is going to drive coaches crazy and reduce the quality of the play on the field, especially in the early season. If this goes through HS coaches will now have a benefit that NFL coaches no longer have. Ridiculous.t

The first thing that came to mind is the Dallas situation last season. Reportedly one of the major reasons for Dallas' 2nd half turnaround was their new HC made them put on Pads and practice live. Now under stand even the so called "live" hitting is controlled in practice.

One of the reasons tackling in the NFL has reached new all time LOWS is that team RARELY if ever practice tackling full speed. Now I can understand the reasoning there, but to eliminate the controlled hitting you can do when you have pads on, will only seriously compromise the quality of play on the field and contribute to more injuries on Sundays.

I just hope this 11th hour h&s push on the players part includes them not balking at improved drug testing to level the field so guys aren't getting whacked by juiced up or otherwise enhanced opponents and increasing penalties like suspensions for blatent head hunters and guys who launch and target knees ingame....

OTOH, I couldn't AGREE with you more on this aspect. Personally I think drugs like HGH used therapeutically should be legal in a supervised environment, however if you are going to make them illegal, then it should be tested, including blood samples,

 

[patriot lifer]

Couldn't disagree with you more. The "whoossification" of the NFL continues. Practicing IN PADS at full speed is a NECESSARY aspect to quality performance on the field. To literally cut in HALF the opportunities and quality reps players have is going to drive coaches crazy and reduce the quality of the play on the field, especially in the early season. If this goes through HS coaches will now have a benefit that NFL coaches no longer have. Ridiculous.t

The first thing that came to mind is the Dallas situation last season. Reportedly one of the major reasons for Dallas' 2nd half turnaround was their new HC made them put on Pads and practice live. Now under stand even the so called "live" hitting is controlled in practice.

One of the reasons tackling in the NFL has reached new all time LOWS is that team RARELY if ever practice tackling full speed. Now I can understand the reasoning there, but to eliminate the controlled hitting you can do when you have pads on, will only seriously compromise the quality of play on the field and contribute to more injuries on Sundays.



OTOH, I couldn't AGREE with you more on this aspect. Personally I think drugs like HGH used therapeutically should be legal in a supervised environment, however if you are going to make them illegal, then it should be tested, including blood samples,

To some degree, can't they just replace the lesser time of full pads practice with more playtime for the starters during the preseason games? Albeit that would then detract from playtime for the 2nd and 3rd stringers, but that just makes the 4th preseason game somewhat significant in giving their players more reps.

Granted the coaches have much greater control of the situations they want to simulate while in practice, but for something like tackling, nothing beats a live game.

 

[patfanken]

To some degree, can't they just replace the lesser time of full pads practice with more playtime for the starters during the preseason games? Albeit that would then detract from playtime for the 2nd and 3rd stringers, but that just makes the 4th preseason game somewhat significant in giving their players more reps.

Granted the coaches have much greater control of the situations they want to simulate while in practice, but for something like tackling, nothing beats a live game.

10 reps in a preseason game doesn't equal what a 100 reps in practice can give. OTOH what MIGHT help mitigate his farce about pads, would be to have more controlled scrimmages with other teams like the Pats did with the Saints last season. In those "scrimmages", individual position drills, group drills and 11 on 11 scrimmages done against other teams are incredibly valuable. They are MUCH better for team development than the preseason games

Personally I'd rather pay to see THAT kind of "scrimmage" up close, than the farce that's a preseason games. Better for the team; Better more entertaining for the fan.

 

[SteveBsFan]

Couldn't disagree with you more. The "whoossification" of the NFL continues. Practicing IN PADS at full speed is a NECESSARY aspect to quality performance on the field. To literally cut in HALF the opportunities and quality reps players have is going to drive coaches crazy and reduce the quality of the play on the field, especially in the early season. If this goes through HS coaches will now have a benefit that NFL coaches no longer have. Ridiculous.t

The first thing that came to mind is the Dallas situation last season. Reportedly one of the major reasons for Dallas' 2nd half turnaround was their new HC made them put on Pads and practice live. Now under stand even the so called "live" hitting is controlled in practice.

One of the reasons tackling in the NFL has reached new all time LOWS is that team RARELY if ever practice tackling full speed. Now I can understand the reasoning there, but to eliminate the controlled hitting you can do when you have pads on, will only seriously compromise the quality of play on the field and contribute to more injuries on Sundays.

You make it sound like they're giving up full contact practices. They're simply cutting down spending an entire 90+ degree day wearing on their bodies.

Cutting in half the amount of practice a player gets is extremely hyperbolic. As recently as 2007, teams were only doing 5-12 "two a days" a season (Two-a-days becoming fewer in NFL training camps - USATODAY.com). These players have been playing football since they had their first pubes, and you think their quality of play is going to decrease because they can't have a (less than 100%) full contact practice 5-12x per year? That's silly.

As far as your Dallas example, there are so many variables to the statement. Garrett likely also brought in a new attitude, aggressiveness and motivation to the players, and the hitting during practice was a side effect of that. It's not like he took everything Phillips did and just added hitting to practices and they started winning.

Secondly, even if that were the case... It's not like the league had a rule against the Cowboys hitting in practice. What I mean is, they had every opportunity to stay on par with the league, but chose not to. By eliminating two a day contact practices, nobody will have an advantage (or disadvantage) regarding that aspect, so if the quality decreases or increases by a fraction, it will be done league wide and not even noticeable.

Finally, looking at the list at some of the teams that had the most two a days, it didn't seem to make a huge difference. (SF, TB, Hou, Det, etc) If Indy, NE, Pitt, etc lead the league yearly in two-a-days, any point you're trying to make may be more valid.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

10 reps in a preseason game doesn't equal what a 100 reps in practice can give. OTOH what MIGHT help mitigate his farce about pads, would be to have more controlled scrimmages with other teams like the Pats did with the Saints last season. In those "scrimmages", individual position drills, group drills and 11 on 11 scrimmages done against other teams are incredibly valuable. They are MUCH better for team development than the preseason games

Personally I'd rather pay to see THAT kind of "scrimmage" up close, than the farce that's a preseason games. Better for the team; Better more entertaining for the fan.

BB is on record saying how valuable the Saints, etc. scrimmages were. As a fan attendee they were better entertainment than a pre-season game. Actually more intense.