Curran: Pats $18 to $20 Million under cap

[crowell33]

Pats should be well under cap when lockout ends

 

[Sciz]

Can somebody explain how he got his numbers? He cites Miguel, but then gives a completely different answer.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Can somebody explain how he got his numbers? He cites Miguel, but then gives a completely different answer.

Nobody can explain because we don't know the new CBA rules on dead cap money and any specific season rules because of the new CBA. ALL cap statements are approximations until the details are finalized and disseminated.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Because the dragon isn't the sharpest tool in the drawer... The Pats don't have a ton of dead cap to deal with and there are virtually zero indications eliminating it has even been considered except by those who insisted it must be because they knew otherwise their binky's were in a little doo-doo...

I can't go to CSN and even read what he says because my computer locks up every time I go near that site...

Miguel is always closer than any mediot save those handed the actual figures by the NFL and Curran has never been one of them. Usually that is one of the ESPN (often Clayton) or NFLN guys.

 

[Rob0729]

FWIW, Mazz said his sources have the Pats cap around that number. Granted Curran could be his source.

I'm not really in position to really question Miguel, but his number seems a lot higher that it was reported it would be prior to the lockout. Many reports had the Pats cap somewhere in the $90 million range before Mankins.

One thing about Miguel's number, I am pretty sure it has RFA tenders on it which obviously will be removed from the cap.

 

[BradyManny]

No offense to Mazz, but I'm pretty sure his source is just Curran, too. Mazz doesn't know much (read: anything) about football. And I'm a fan of the show.

The ESPN article that MoLewisRocks had in the other thread jives with where Miguel has them - as if we actually needed further proof of Miguel's #s, which prove to be the most accurate you can find on the web, easily.

JMT had a good analysis of how that plays out with the top 51 rule here: http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...ve-agreement-2011-salary-cap.html#post2588827.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

FWIW, Mazz said his sources have the Pats cap around that number. Granted Curran could be his source.

I'm not really in position to really question Miguel, but his number seems a lot higher that it was reported it would be prior to the lockout. Many reports had the Pats cap somewhere in the $90 million range before Mankins.

One thing about Miguel's number, I am pretty sure it has RFA tenders on it which obviously will be removed from the cap.

The only ones to be removed would be invalid ones for 5th and 6th years...and we only had one of those.

I'm sure Curran isn't counting the Mankins tag, but there will be one whether it's at $8M or $10M+ because no settlement is going to do away with something Polian needs to remain valid...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

No offense to Mazz, but I'm pretty sure his source is just Curran, too. Mazz doesn't know much (read: anything) about football. And I'm a fan of the show.

The ESPN article that MoLewisRocks had in the other thread jives with where Miguel has them - as if we actually needed further proof of Miguel's #s, which prove to be the most accurate you can find on the web, easily.

JMT had a good analysis of how that plays out with the top 51 rule here: http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...ve-agreement-2011-salary-cap.html#post2588827.

As always Miguel noted that all players are not counted in his cap figures. He counts 51 players until the deadline for the season at which time he counts the actual 53 who made the roster. He also counts dead cap at all times since it always counts. Ours at this time is a mere $1M plus.

All of the below players are NOT currently among the Top 51 list, therefore their salaries do NOT count against the cap at this present moment and their current cap figures only include roster bonuses(if any), prorated portion of their signing bonus, LTBE incentives, and offseason workout bonus. For example, Brandon Deaderick's $405,000 salary currently does not count against the cap because right now since he is not among the Top 51 highest paid players.

 

[patfanken]

Can somebody explain how he got his numbers? He cites Miguel, but then gives a completely different answer.

I think he did it pretty simplistically to get his cap figure. He just took 48% of $9B and divided that by 32 teams. Granted I'm too lazy to actually do the math, but I'm guessing if you do it, it will come out the $115MM/team Curran guesses at.

As to the Pats number that is more problematical. It also repeats one of my pet peeves. That is giving projected team cap numbers WITHOUT giving the number of players actually under contract. For example Team A is 15MM under the cap. Team B is 25MM It would seem that team B is in a better cap situation. However you might change your mind if you knew that team A has 45 guys signed and Team B only has 32. Ergo, you CANNOT really tell how good or bad a team's cap situation WITHOUT knowing how may players they have under contract to get to that figure. Yet the media almost NEVER gives you that info. WHY!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Sciz]

The only ones to be removed would be invalid ones for 5th and 6th years...and we only had one of those.

I'm sure Curran isn't counting the Mankins tag, but there will be one whether it's at $8M or $10M+ because no settlement is going to do away with something Polian needs to remain valid...

He specifically said that he is including Mankins, which confuses me even more! There's a $15M or so difference somewhere...

 

[BradyManny]

As always Miguel noted that all players are not counted in his cap figures. He counts 51 players until the deadline for the season at which time he counts the actual 53 who made the roster. He also counts dead cap at all times since it always counts. Ours at this time is a mere $1M plus.

Good call, thanks for the heads up.

 

[The Scrizz]

Thank God for Miguel first of all. Even using Curran's ideas of cutting Kazcur and the roughly 2 mil in savings for workout bonuses not met, I still have them at around 105M using Miguel's numbers. I don't know how Curran can be that far off because he claims that he is including Mankins.

Now if he miscalculated on Mankins (ie, thought he included him but didn't), then his numbers make sense. They are wrong but make sense.

What about the Jets? There is a Jets Cap page that has them at 101M and a Gang Green Article dated TODAY that says they're at 128M! That is not very close.

If they are even close to that right now with all of their FA's they are SCA-REWED!

 

[The Scrizz]

Looks like the Gang Green article got it's info from here:

Looking at 2011 salary-cap figures - NFL Nation Blog - ESPN

For what it's worth, it has NE at 102 which would mesh with the numbers Curran was talking about but the article explicitly states that it doesn't include franchise players. This would also be in line with Miguel's numbers which do include Mankins.

If this is accurate it is awesome for the Pats! The Jets are over and have to trim before they can even think about resigning FA's, the Steelers are listed at 116M which wouldn't include Woodley, so they are over. Indy is at 115M before dealing with Horse-Face.

San Diego is in sick shape at 85M and KC even better at 74M, 2 good teams that could improve. Baltimore not bad either at 101M.

 

[The Scrizz]

And it looks like I may have answered my own question on the Jets.

According to this article, the Jets are over 120M IF dead money is counted: New York Jets salary cap update - New York New York Jets | Examiner.com

Basically the wishful thinking is that all the dead money teams accrued from cutting guys at the end of the season won't count in 2011. And seeing as how chummy the Commish is with his boys in green I wouldn't be surprised at all to see this happen.

 

[Shelterdog]

San Diego is in sick shape at 85M and KC even better at 74M, 2 good teams that could improve. Baltimore not bad either at 101M.

Even if you have a team's cap number it takes forever and a day to figure out what kind of shape they're in.

Take San Diego. The Chargers have about seven starters and a ton of backups who will be free agents (including Floyd, Jackson, Weddle, Cooper, Burnett, Clary, Cesaire and Sproles), as well as a couple of key restricted free agents (like Applewhite and Mike Tolbert) . Hell I can't even find a page that says how many legitimate NFL players they have under contract. So they're way under but they have to spend a ton to field a legitimate team. Is that good shape? I don't have the time to really figure it out.

 

[crowell33]

The cap will be $123 Million, "but feel more like $130 Million" when cap exceptions are included.

Steelers Potential 2011 Salary Cap Casualties | Steelers Depot

Owners, players make progress, aim to seal deal next week | NFL.com

 

[ausbacker]

Even if you have a team's cap number it takes forever and a day to figure out what kind of shape they're in.

Take San Diego. The Chargers have about seven starters and a ton of backups who will be free agents (including Floyd, Jackson, Weddle, Cooper, Burnett, Clary, Cesaire and Sproles), as well as a couple of key restricted free agents (like Applewhite and Mike Tolbert) . Hell I can't even find a page that says how many legitimate NFL players they have under contract. So they're way under but they have to spend a ton to field a legitimate team. Is that good shape? I don't have the time to really figure it out.

That was what immediately came to mind with the Chargers. They have a lot of their own guys to re-sign.

It should be interesting to see the state of teams once this all clicks into gear. It's one of the more intriguing scenarios for quite some time.

 

[jsull87]

Alright so can we get someone to summarise please where we are at for this cap that should be 123 million and "feel like 130".
How Much have we spent?
How many players have we signed?
Who do we have to sign and what will their hit be (round about)?
How much will it cost to sign our rookies?

From there How much do we have left over for free agency? That should give us a nice look at who we could target and how to go about it e.g sign the big name, wait for teams over the cap to cut good talent then sign them, Both e.t.c

 

[Ring 6]

Alright so can we get someone to summarise please where we are at for this cap that should be 123 million and "feel like 130".
How Much have we spent?
How many players have we signed?
Who do we have to sign and what will their hit be (round about)?
How much will it cost to sign our rookies?

From there How much do we have left over for free agency? That should give us a nice look at who we could target and how to go about it e.g sign the big name, wait for teams over the cap to cut good talent then sign them, Both e.t.c

Click the link to Miguels cap page. That will tell you everythig you need to know.

 

[jsull87]

Click the link to Miguels cap page. That will tell you everythig you need to know.

Yeah i am on it now i just wanted to put a summary up on the thread giving us a pretty accurate representation of where we are not just cap but free agency, cuts and trades as well. Don't worry i am going to try work on something if i can get my excel to start working