Heat or Mavericks

[jcdavey]

Mavericks vs Heat 2011 Finals • Lakers Forum

Lakers fans sound even more vile than you guys.

lakers fans are as stupid as the heat fans when they try to say kobe/lebron is better than MJ


morons

 

[BradyManny]

You're basically complaining because the Heat are playing the way most people are expecting they would. D-Wade and LeBron were guarded by THREE GUYS tonight, at LEAST one of them being a seven footer, and they were still able to make shots. What does that tell you? That tells you that they're just that much more talented than the Mavs.

I'm not arguing with their talents, at all. Clearly the Heat have two of the probably the top 5 most talented players in the league, and a third in the top 30.

But the style of basketball they play bores me. It's almost all predicated on one-on-one basketball. If I wanted to watch that I could go to the park down the street. I prefer watching teams move the ball and find the open man - like the current incarnation of the Celts when Rondo is playing well.

 

[BradyManny]

The Heat are stronger, faster, and far more athletic. That's why they won tonight and that's why they'll win the series.

I think you've gotten too accustomed to the way the Heat play around the hoop on defense. The reason they defend better than anyone in the league is b/c they are more physical than anyone in the league. Are either Joel Anthony or Udonis Haslem suddenly all NBA defense? But suddenly both guys can close out in a hurry because they can get away with more contact due to the team they are on.

I'll agree about Dirk - the guy gets the calls. No doubt, he gets the star preferential treatment that these pathetic refs can't help but making. He got bailed out on several occasions in the first half. But I also thought Marion, Barea, Chandler, etc. were the victims of an awful lot of contact that didn't get called.

It's the old Pistons style of play - be physical every play, they can't call a foul every play. And Miami is playing a different brand of basketball then the rest of the league now b/c they are allowed to. They are far more physical. Watch how they close out on every defensive play - there's always contact. Contact, that on the other end, would sure result in a whistle.

Frankly, I'd rather have the games ref'd that way, no doubt about it. Let these guys play defense. As long as Wade & Lebron don't go the line over a fraction of the contact on the other end.

 

[Kontradiction]

lakers fans are as stupid as the heat fans when they try to say kobe/lebron is better than MJ


morons

They also don't realize that a lot of the things they are railing against with LeBron are the same things that they defend when it comes to the Rapist.

I'm not arguing with their talents, at all. Clearly the Heat have two of the probably the top 5 most talented players in the league, and a third in the top 30.

But the style of basketball they play bores me. It's almost all predicated on one-on-one basketball. If I wanted to watch that I could go to the park down the street. I prefer watching teams move the ball and find the open man - like the current incarnation of the Celts when Rondo is playing well.

I'm not sure how they bore you. Vicious slam dunks, beautiful alley-oops, tenacious defense, and brutal packs bore you? If the Heat played the way you indicate they should, they would be out of the playoffs by now. They can move the ball with anybody in the league. The problem with the Heat doing that is that they don't have viable options on the offensive end at C and PG when the starters are on the floor. If you watch, the Heat are able to find the open guys a lot when LeBron and Wade are triple teamed. It's just that Mike Bibby and Mike Miller rarely, if ever, hit the big shots.

Once again, you're basically complaining that the Heat are too talented and are playing in a way in which they KNOW can seal them a win.

 

[Keyser Söze]

F Lebron, F The Heat

 

[Kontradiction]

F Lebron, F The Heat

That's the spirit. :eat3:

 

[BradyManny]

They also don't realize that a lot of the things they are railing against with LeBron are the same things that they defend when it comes to the Rapist.

Once again, you're basically complaining that the Heat are too talented and are playing in a way in which they KNOW can seal them a win.

I prefer Kobe and Wade's game to Lebron, by a huge margin. Wade was one of my favorite players in the league not wearing green until the last couple of years. I still like watching him play - when he's not flopping or taking on some of Lebron's irritating arrogance.

I find Lebron's game to be frustrating and not very enjoyable. As you know, I feel it's predicated on a) his size b) his abuse of the rules of basketball.

Outside of Wade, how entertaining a team are the Heat from a basketball standpoint? While it's a fair point that they are creating shots that some of their players are missing, I still wouldn't say they are a great TEAM offensively, but a great collection of talent. Lebron, Wade, Bosh still don't particularly complement each other.

It's a testament that they are on the verge of winning a title in their first year together without a tremendous amount of teamwork or chemistry, offensively. Still most of their success comes down to individual plays by Wade or Lebron.

This isn't the great Celtics & Lakers teams of the 80s whose pieces fit together like a puzzle, or even Jordan-Pippen, in which Scottie was the absolute perfect complement to MJ's game. This is an All-Star team that is overwhelming opponents on pure talent alone.

 

[Kontradiction]

It's a testament that they are on the verge of winning a title in their first year together without a tremendous amount of teamwork or chemistry, offensively. Still most of their success comes down to individual plays by Wade or Lebron.

This isn't the great Celtics & Lakers teams of the 80s whose pieces fit together like a puzzle, or even Jordan-Pippen, in which Scottie was the absolute perfect complement to MJ's game. This is an All-Star team that is overwhelming opponents on pure talent alone.

I would disagree with the first paragraph and say that most of their success comes down to the lockdown defense they are able to play on their opponents. Sure, the individual plays have gotten it done in crunch time, but the Heat are only in these games because their defense swarms the opponent. Down the stretch last night, they were able to double team Dirk and still be able to get out to the three point line quickly enough to force bad shots. As for the individual match-ups winning games for them, that's the Heat's style. That's their game. We all knew this would be the case coming into the season, so why would anyone expect them to play a style that isn't theirs? Until they get better pieces to surround Wade, LeBron, and Bosh, that's what their style is going to be.

I don't see any problem with the second paragraph.

 

[Kontradiction]

Off topic for this thread, but Outside the Lines just reported that Shaq tweeted that he plans to retire. Not really a surprise and has been expected with the extent of his injuries. What a great career. Congratulations on your accomplishments, Shaq. Thank you for everything you did for the Heat as well as the NBA and good luck in your future endeavors.

 

[BradyManny]

I would disagree with the first paragraph and say that most of their success comes down to the lockdown defense they are able to play on their opponents. Sure, the individual plays have gotten it done in crunch time, but the Heat are only in these games because their defense swarms the opponent. Down the stretch last night, they were able to double team Dirk and still be able to get out to the three point line quickly enough to force bad shots. As for the individual match-ups winning games for them, that's the Heat's style. That's their game. We all knew this would be the case coming into the season, so why would anyone expect them to play a style that isn't theirs? Until they get better pieces to surround Wade, LeBron, and Bosh, that's what their style is going to be.

I don't see any problem with the second paragraph.

Fair enough re: the defense. The one thing I will say about Miami is that a team predicated on stifling defense, a team that can rotate and close as good as any D I've seen since the 08 Celts, is a good thing.

But that's as far as you'll get me to go. Outside of that, I don't think they are good for the game. The blueprint it sets up is not good for the league. The NBA was a league of haves and have-nots as it is, it's only going to get worse as teams try to emulate them.

They can point to the Celtics big 3 as a Blueprint, but that team made sense from a team-building standpoint. A slasher-scorer 3, a pure-shooter at 2, and a 4 who can play inside or out. Add in a traditional PG and it was tough to beat. The Heat are simply just 3 guys who are tough to defend one-on-one.

 

[jcdavey]

eh i don't think kobe was a rapist, just a guy who cheated on his wife with the wrong crazy ***** lol

 

[Kontradiction]

Fair enough re: the defense. The one thing I will say about Miami is that a team predicated on stifling defense, a team that can rotate and close as good as any D I've seen since the 08 Celts, is a good thing.

But that's as far as you'll get me to go. Outside of that, I don't think they are good for the game. The blueprint it sets up is not good for the league. The NBA was a league of haves and have-nots as it is, it's only going to get worse as teams try to emulate them.

They can point to the Celtics big 3 as a Blueprint, but that team made sense from a team-building standpoint. A slasher-scorer 3, a pure-shooter at 2, and a 4 who can play inside or out. Add in a traditional PG and it was tough to beat. The Heat are simply just 3 guys who are tough to defend one-on-one.

You should also admit that the only thing that has stopped the Celtics from playing like the Heat, particularly in the early years, is having a PG who is one of the best distributors in the game. If the Heat had a guy like Rondo, I would have to think that the ball movement would be much better as a team.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Off topic for this thread, but Outside the Lines just reported that Shaq tweeted that he plans to retire. Not really a surprise and has been expected with the extent of his injuries. What a great career. Congratulations on your accomplishments, Shaq. Thank you for everything you did for the Heat as well as the NBA and good luck in your future endeavors.

Looking forward to Shaq and Barkley on the same set ...

 

[TheSolderKing]

BS I voted wrong.....


Who I want to win it is....... not who will win




I hate Lebron talk so Mavs get it done.



fixed my vote to who I want instead of who will win it

 

[ausbacker]

Just when I go and put my foot in it Dallas does this. What a game as a neutral NBA fan.

 

[BradyManny]

Well, I didn't see that one coming. Dirk showed me something tonight.

Thankfully, the Mavs made a series of this. Though I'd rather watch a game that was more consistent throughout then the 12-0 type runs they seem to be exchanging. But I won't complain with how this one ended, at least (sorry, Kontra).

The Mavs are impressively defensively. Offensively, it's a mystery to me that they'd managed so well through two games with what they have. Shawn Marion continues to shock me.

On Miami's side, you really have to want more from Bosh. Lebron and Wade did just about everything you could possibly ask of them, and both Chalmers and Bibby played well.

It wouldn't be NBA basketball if I didn't have some comments on officiating: I'm convinced that Lebron James honestly does not understand what a traveling violation is after he repeatedly tried to explain away one of the most blatant travels I've seen in my life. Someone give that guy a primer on basic rules of basketball.

While we're at it, someone explain to me how Wade & Spoelstra's tantrum (Wade, specifically, absolutely should have been T'd) results in no technicals, but Carlisle gets a quick T for taking offense to Lebron getting away with swinging an elbow at Dirk. Other than that, I thought the officiating was consistently sucky on both sides. Good for them.

 

[Kontradiction]

Well, I didn't see that one coming. Dirk showed me something tonight.

Thankfully, the Mavs made a series of this. Though I'd rather watch a game that was more consistent throughout then the 12-0 type runs they seem to be exchanging. But I won't complain with how this one ended, at least (sorry, Kontra).

The Mavs are impressively defensively. Offensively, it's a mystery to me that they'd managed so well through two games with what they have. Shawn Marion continues to shock me.

On Miami's side, you really have to want more from Bosh. Lebron and Wade did just about everything you could possibly ask of them, and both Chalmers and Bibby played well.

It wouldn't be NBA basketball if I didn't have some comments on officiating: I'm convinced that Lebron James honestly does not understand what a traveling violation is after he repeatedly tried to explain away one of the most blatant travels I've seen in my life. Someone give that guy a primer on basic rules of basketball.

While we're at it, someone explain to me how Wade & Spoelstra's tantrum (Wade, specifically, absolutely should have been T'd) results in no technicals, but Carlisle gets a quick T for taking offense to Lebron getting away with swinging an elbow at Dirk. Other than that, I thought the officiating was consistently sucky on both sides. Good for them.

It's usually not in me to blame the officiating after a loss, but since you've mentioned it, the officiating was badly slanted toward the Mavericks last night. It was slanted in the first game as well, but the Heat overcame. Last night was absolutely piss poor. There was nothing consistent about it. I believe the Mavs (a shooting team) took something like 12 free throw attempts in the first half to the Heat's (a penetrating team) 2. That was one of the biggest reasons the Mavericks were still in it going into halftime.

Anyway, that said, the officiating didn't cost the Heat the game last night. The inability to stop the Mavs on offense down the stretch did. Bad loss, but the Heat are a tough team and will rebound. They're also the best road team in the league so going on the road to play three in Dallas shouldn't bother them all that much. Also, I'm wondering why the hell Shawn Marion couldn't do what he's been doing in Miami (where he consistently sucked)...

 

[BradyManny]

It's usually not in me to blame the officiating after a loss, but since you've mentioned it, the officiating was badly slanted toward the Mavericks last night. It was slanted in the first game as well, but the Heat overcame. Last night was absolutely piss poor. There was nothing consistent about it. I believe the Mavs (a shooting team) took something like 12 free throw attempts in the first half to the Heat's (a penetrating team) 2. That was one of the biggest reasons the Mavericks were still in it going into halftime.

Anyway, that said, the officiating didn't cost the Heat the game last night. The inability to stop the Mavs on offense down the stretch did. Bad loss, but the Heat are a tough team and will rebound. They're also the best road team in the league so going on the road to play three in Dallas shouldn't bother them all that much. Also, I'm wondering why the hell Shawn Marion couldn't do what he's been doing in Miami (where he consistently sucked)...

I thought the officiating was pretty sloppy start-to-finish and in Dallas' favor for huge stretches (the non-call on the Peja travel, holy crap). But really, I think it evened out, by the end. As soon as Wade and Spoelstra flipped out at the refs (and at that point, as you say, the Heat had only been to the line for two shots), I think the Heat ended up at the line for their next four possessions, and IMO, I recall most of those being borderline.

Add to that the fact that once Lebron had four fouls, he actually was able to be uber-aggressive upon realizing there was no way in hell he was getting called for a 5th. The Mavs had it down to a 2 point lead when Lebron picked up four and he hacked a Mavs player on enusing plays (one a blatant offensive foul) and naturally, the refs had their whistles in their pocket for that. Miami extended their lead and ultimately built it to 15.

Marion is an enigma. Honestly, if not for him, Dallas isn't in either ballgame. He's probably been their most consistent performer on offense, defense & rebounding. I had no idea he had this in him.

I have no doubt Miami wins at least one in Dallas, so this is coming back to Miami. It'd be entertaining if it went 7. It has the ingredients for a great series and so far both games have been enjoyable.

As a Dallas fan, I'd feel good being 1-1 knowing a bunch of players on my team struggled - hoping maybe that changes going forward. On the Miami side, I'd feel good being 1-1 knowing the Heat have forced a bunch of players on Dallas to consistently underperform.

 

[Kontradiction]

I thought the officiating was pretty sloppy start-to-finish and in Dallas' favor for huge stretches (the non-call on the Peja travel, holy crap). But really, I think it evened out, by the end. As soon as Wade and Spoelstra flipped out at the refs (and at that point, as you say, the Heat had only been to the line for two shots), I think the Heat ended up at the line for their next four possessions, and IMO, I recall most of those being borderline.

Add to that the fact that once Lebron had four fouls, he actually was able to be uber-aggressive upon realizing there was no way in hell he was getting called for a 5th. The Mavs had it down to a 2 point lead when Lebron picked up four and he hacked a Mavs player on enusing plays (one a blatant offensive foul) and naturally, the refs had their whistles in their pocket for that. Miami extended their lead and ultimately built it to 15.

Marion is an enigma. Honestly, if not for him, Dallas isn't in either ballgame. He's probably been their most consistent performer on offense, defense & rebounding. I had no idea he had this in him.

I have no doubt Miami wins at least one in Dallas, so this is coming back to Miami. It'd be entertaining if it went 7. It has the ingredients for a great series and so far both games have been enjoyable.

As a Dallas fan, I'd feel good being 1-1 knowing a bunch of players on my team struggled - hoping maybe that changes going forward. On the Miami side, I'd feel good being 1-1 knowing the Heat have forced a bunch of players on Dallas to consistently underperform.

There's no doubt in my mind that this is going 7. Dallas isn't going down without a fight and neither are the Heat. Game 3 should be epic.

 

[chicowalker]

...going on the road to play three in Dallas shouldn't bother them all that much. Also, I'm wondering why the hell Shawn Marion couldn't do what he's been doing in Miami (where he consistently sucked)...

OT: I hate the 2-3-2

Is the NBA the only league that uses it?