Brandon Tate's future as a PATRIOT

[randomk1]

Why do people think that Tate is a deep threat?

He doesn't look like he is very explosive nor is his top speed all that impressive. I rarely saw him break a tackle or make a guy miss. He isn't exactly a tall guy and he also had some really easy drops last year and was very inconsistent....at times he was just a body on the field.

To me he just doesn't seem to have the physical tools.

From the little that i saw i think Price has more potential but i'm willing to be patient with Tate....he needs to step it up this year.

 

[serifyn]

last year was effectively Tate's rookie season and when the patriots lost one starter in moss, they immediately signed deion branch to replace him.

To think Tate was going to supplant either moss or branch in his rookie season is silly.

When you examine the patriots WR corps, this is what you see.

84 Branch, Deion - Starter, Possession/Blocker
11 Edelman, Julian - Backup, Slot
13 Farnham, Buddy -Practice Squad Prospect
10 Jenkins, Darnell - Practice squad Prospect
17 Price, Taylor - Backup Possession/Blocker
18 Slater, Matt -Special Teams Player
19 Tate, Brandon - Fringe Starter (3rd Reciever) - Burner
83 Welker, Wes Starter - Starter, Slot

Tate is the only Receiver on the roster who has the moss-like speed to blow by people.

Tate is in the mold of the 2007 patriots system, which was so heavily based on receivers more than any other position, but since moss was traded, the patriots have become a team more focused on the tight ends and the runningbacks, along with Aaron Hernandez, Danny Woodhead and possibly Shane Vereen, nobody else has good enough speed to blow by people and draw safety coverage.

I think a burner like Tate is important to the patriots, they need tate because he is the best suited to returning kickoffs, that alone would likely merit a roster spot, but i think the patriots see themselves as a team which has enough depth at the WR position right now because they are so tight end centric.

If Tate develops into a great player he can start on the patriots and it would be in the patriots best interest if this happened, but even if it doesn't the patriots have plenty of skilled receivers who can play one of the 2 WR positions they utilize on the field at all times.

The great thing about the patriots offense is that they are unpredictable, they have MANY good players at every skill position and have one of the best quarterbacks in the game protecting them.

 

[randomk1]

last year was effectively Tate's rookie season and when the patriots lost one starter in moss, they immediately signed deion branch to replace him.

To think Tate was going to supplant either moss or branch in his rookie season is silly.

When you examine the patriots WR corps, this is what you see.

84 Branch, Deion - Starter, Possession/Blocker
11 Edelman, Julian - Backup, Slot
13 Farnham, Buddy -Practice Squad Prospect
10 Jenkins, Darnell - Practice squad Prospect
17 Price, Taylor - Backup Possession/Blocker
18 Slater, Matt -Special Teams Player
19 Tate, Brandon - Fringe Starter (3rd Reciever) - Burner
83 Welker, Wes Starter - Starter, Slot

Tate is the only Receiver on the roster who has the moss-like speed to blow by people.

Tate is in the mold of the 2007 patriots system, which was so heavily based on receivers more than any other position, but since moss was traded, the patriots have become a team more focused on the tight ends and the runningbacks, along with Aaron Hernandez, Danny Woodhead and possibly Shane Vereen, nobody else has good enough speed to blow by people and draw safety coverage.

I think a burner like Tate is important to the patriots, they need tate because he is the best suited to returning kickoffs, that alone would likely merit a roster spot, but i think the patriots see themselves as a team which has enough depth at the WR position right now because they are so tight end centric.

If Tate develops into a great player he can start on the patriots and it would be in the patriots best interest if this happened, but even if it doesn't the patriots have plenty of skilled receivers who can play one of the 2 WR positions they utilize on the field at all times.

The great thing about the patriots offense is that they are unpredictable, they have MANY good players at every skill position and have one of the best quarterbacks in the game protecting them.

Again...as in my previous post...why do you keep calling Tate a "burner" ?

Steve Smith was a burner,Randy Moss was a burner, Mike Wallace is a burner. Tate isn't anywhere close to the speed that those guys possess on the field.

Watch that video...most of Tate's catches are short to intermediate stuff.
You will not see him beat his man down the field. His longest plays if i recall from memory were the broken play vs the Vikings,the catch were the ball goes through the hands of madieu williams and bounces into Tate's hands,the play vs the Steelers where polamalu ***** up,one catch vs the bears,one play vs the dolphins where he breaks a tackle and then gets chased down from behind.

He had a few good kickoff returns but at the end of the year he couldn't get past the 20 yard line.

Why is he a burner exactly? Because of his 4.4 40 yard dash? His 18 YPC ?

 

[Don Kipines]

Again...as in my previous post...why do you keep calling Tate a "burner" ?

Steve Smith was a burner,Randy Moss was a burner, Mike Wallace is a burner. Tate isn't anywhere close to the speed that those guys possess on the field.

Watch that video...most of Tate's catches are short to intermediate stuff.
You will not see him beat his man down the field. His longest plays if i recall from memory were the broken play vs the Vikings,the catch were the ball goes through the hands of madieu williams and bounces into Tate's hands,the play vs the Steelers where polamalu ***** up,one catch vs the bears,one play vs the dolphins where he breaks a tackle and then gets chased down from behind.

He had a few good kickoff returns but at the end of the year he couldn't get past the 20 yard line.

Why is he a burner exactly? Because of his 4.4 40 yard dash? His 18 YPC ?

Take a look at his kick return versus the Dolphins at Miami. Watch him as he turns upfield and blows by Nolan Carroll. When healthy, Tate is definitely explosive. He may not be Mike Wallace-fast, but he's faster than average for sure. You don't get to be the NCAA's all time kick returner without at least some speed to break away in the open field.

His problem seems to be that he doesn't run routes very well and can't read defenses. He's very decisive and elusive with the ball in his hands, not so much without it.

 

[Don Kipines]

Again...as in my previous post...why do you keep calling Tate a "burner" ?

Steve Smith was a burner,Randy Moss was a burner, Mike Wallace is a burner. Tate isn't anywhere close to the speed that those guys possess on the field.

Watch that video...most of Tate's catches are short to intermediate stuff.
You will not see him beat his man down the field. His longest plays if i recall from memory were the broken play vs the Vikings,the catch were the ball goes through the hands of madieu williams and bounces into Tate's hands,the play vs the Steelers where polamalu ***** up,one catch vs the bears,one play vs the dolphins where he breaks a tackle and then gets chased down from behind.?

He was definitely behind the defense on his last TD from Hoyer in the other Dolphins game, too.

Incidentally, a player doesn't have to have great deep speed to challenge the deep part of the field well. Givens was certainly a passable outside receiver in that respect and so is Branch, up to a point. You just need to be able to run a variety of routes so that the defense can't sit on the deep patterns, and then occasionally you need to be able to beat the jam and get deep for a few strides to present a target. Tate is definitely big enough and fast enough to do the job. The questions are all about his hands and his ability to shake DBs. I haven't watched him enough to know why he's not getting open more, but I doubt the problem is his talent level.

 

[OhExaulted1]

I think the Chad Jackson comparisons are off-base. He's more like Bethel Johnson part duex at this point. Hopefully he can act with more maturity then the former head case because his return skills are exceptional. With that being said I don't forsee him as a major contributor with the offense.

 

[ay-yo]

I feel the people who are down on Tate are missing 2 key pieces of context.

1. We were the highest scoring team in the NFL last year.
2. We used the 2 TE set (no 3rd wr) vastly more than any other team in the NFL last year.

Given those I think it's safe to assume the following:
1. We can't reasonably expect more production from the offense. If Tate is getting more touches somebody else is losing them.
2. The Patriots 3rd wr sees the significantly less amount of playing time compared to other team's 3rd wr.

So what can we reasonably expect from the Pats 3rd wr? I do think Tate's numbers can be improved upon but I really cant see more than 40-50 catches for our 3rd wr. Tate simply won't get that many balls thrown his way especially if we start running the ball more this season.

Was Tate perfect? No. Do I think he'll become a #1? No. Was he acceptable as a 3rd wr in the Pats system? IMO Yes. So for those of you down on Tate what did you expect to see, production wise, last season?

 

[Shelterdog]

I think the Chad Jackson comparisons are off-base. He's more like Bethel Johnson part duex at this point. Hopefully he can act with more maturity then the former head case because his return skills are exceptional. With that being said I don't forsee him as a major contributor with the offense.

The fact that Tate had pretty consistent playing time througout the season (about 50% of the snaps for the season as well as 51.3% in the playoffs although it was higher in same games and lower in others), and that no one ever challenged Tate for the third WR slot, that BB didn't try to bring in a Caldwell/Gabriel type, and that BB didn't draft a replacement all suggest that BB (and Brady) think Tate is a halfway decent player.

They never gave Jackson or Johnson this much run for this many games.

 

[randomk1]

I feel the people who are down on Tate are missing 2 key pieces of context.

1. We were the highest scoring team in the NFL last year.
2. We used the 2 TE set (no 3rd wr) vastly more than any other team in the NFL last year.

Given those I think it's safe to assume the following:
1. We can't reasonably expect more production from the offense. If Tate is getting more touches somebody else is losing them.
2. The Patriots 3rd wr sees the significantly less amount of playing time compared to other team's 3rd wr.

So what can we reasonably expect from the Pats 3rd wr? I do think Tate's numbers can be improved upon but I really cant see more than 40-50 catches for our 3rd wr. Tate simply won't get that many balls thrown his way especially if we start running the ball more this season.

Was Tate perfect? No. Do I think he'll become a #1? No. Was he acceptable as a 3rd wr in the Pats system? IMO Yes. So for those of you down on Tate what did you expect to see, production wise, last season?

More key catches(he had a couple of painful 3rd down drops)...getting open on a more consistent basis.

And Tate saw a crapload of snaps. He was on the field for 50% of the snaps behind only Brady(95%),Gronk(74%),Welker(70%) Crump,Branch(50%)
Brady is the QB and Crump was mostly a blocker so he should've had plenty of opportunities to make noise.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

1. We can't reasonably expect more production from the offense. If Tate is getting more touches somebody else is losing them.

Well, if the D became more beastly, maybe the Pats could have 45 minutes TOP a game to run more plays. . . .

Then again, I just realized Pittsburgh's Mike Wallace was drafted with the very next pick. That guy had 1200+ yds, 10 tds, and 21 YPC last season. So clearly Tate needs to pick it up.

Wallace isn't competing with a GRONK and a Hernandez, not to mention a Welker, Branch, and Woodhead. . . .

When you examine the patriots WR corps, this is what you see.

17 Price, Taylor - Backup Possession/Blocker

In terms of straight-line speed, Price may be the fastest guy on the entire team (<4.4 40), so it's at least possible he becomes the deep threat the Pats are looking for.

 

[HomerSchooled]

I don't know about all of that. He may have already proven himself more than Jackson, but certainly not '4-5' times over. Actually their numbers are not that much different from each other, especially when you consider the fact that Tate started TEN (10) games last yr, while Jackson started ONE (1) here. Both played only one year of real play, as they were hurt for the entire other season, and had no numbers. Tate's season ending injury came in his FIRST yr, while he racked up 24 catches in his 2nd yr. Jackson, on the other hand had 13 catches as a natural rookie, and then got his season ending injury in his SECOND yr. The point is that both only played one 'real' yr here.

Tate--10 games started 24 Catches 3 TD's (had some knowledge of system)
Jackson--1 game started 13 Catches 3 TD's (as a natural 1st yr rookie)

The differences are that Tate had more yardage in those 11 extra catches, and had a much higher average than Jackson (18 ypc vs 12)---BUT he also had many, many more opportunities as he started 10 games vs Jackson's 1, and had a whole, entire yr of team meetings, playbook and system knowledge etc.

I am not really debating your comment as to whether or not he's 'better' than Chad Jackson, as you are probably correct, and I certainly agree--although we only have a small sample size. I am arguing that there's no way in the world that he is '4 to 5 times' proven himself way better than Jackson. They both had some things in which they were alike...but Tate has also had many more starting opportunities, and has proven at least early in the season before fading into return oblivion, that he can take it to the house.

As for the 'much lower pick comment,' :

Chad Jackson was a 2nd, while Tate was a 3rd---I don't know if that qualifies as a 'much lower pick,' but I do agree with pretty much of everything that you said, so I guess there's no reason to nit-pick too badly.

I am sure that Tate is better at the same point, but I don't agree with how much better. Only time will tell anyway, whether or not he can take a step forward or take a step backwards. I personally am pulling for him, and hope that he proves to be a great 3rd rd pick. There's no way I am even close to giving up on him, but if he doesn't improve this yr....there will be the CJ comparisons for sure.

I feel weird that I keep defending a player I'm not especially attached to. I really don't expect him to be great or anything, I'm just saying he's useful.

As far as the Jackson comparisons, they're not close, and they couldn't ever be. Between kickoffs, rushing, and receiving, Tate has literally tripled Jackson's career yardage with far superior averages per catch, run, and return. And he was drafted almost 50 picks lower. If that's not close enough to "4-5 times better a player" and "a much lower pick", sorry. I'll tone down the hyperbole.

 

[sbpatfan]

Good analysis on the receivers but how would the work stoppage hurt Tate? He has his playbook, knows what he needs to do, and has been in Foxboro this offseason with guys like Hoyer and Gronkowski.

If Tate only develops into a Gaffney-esque receiver I'll be happy. He's already the best kick returner we've had in a few years.

 

[Shelterdog]

Good analysis on the receivers but how would the work stoppage hurt Tate? He has his playbook, knows what he needs to do, and has been in Foxboro this offseason with guys like Hoyer and Gronkowski.

He's a young, somewhat raw player so the theory is he'll have a particularly high marginal return on time spent with Brady and the full coaching staff in full speed, organized, tough taped practices. Practicing routes with Hoyer is one thing, practicing them with a receivers coach throwing on the tape and saying your right sholder is popping up to high when you cut on a particular route is another thing.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Tate would have had a better year if Moss had been on the team for the duration.

It's no accident Polian put so much effort in continuity for Manning since three years is the baseline for developing a passing game.

In what was an effective rookie season, the offense gets changed 1/4 the way through the season.

In 2010, Tate made plays that were critical to the Miami, Minnesota, and Pittsburgh victories. I think that's an important stat for young players.

Also, Price had the fastest 2010 40 time. My guess is he has been red shirted as a Moss replacement. Together, the two should provide more "verticle".

I do wish we had OTA's this off season.

 

[OhExaulted1]

The fact that Tate had pretty consistent playing time througout the season (about 50% of the snaps for the season as well as 51.3% in the playoffs although it was higher in same games and lower in others), and that no one ever challenged Tate for the third WR slot, that BB didn't try to bring in a Caldwell/Gabriel type, and that BB didn't draft a replacement all suggest that BB (and Brady) think Tate is a halfway decent player.

They never gave Jackson or Johnson this much run for this many games.

That's more PT than I thought. If he can give us Caldwell/Gaffeny type production plus some key returns I'd be happy with that. Thanks for the stats and insight 'Dog.

 

[serifyn]

In terms of straight-line speed, Price may be the fastest guy on the entire team (<4.4 40), so it's at least possible he becomes the deep threat the Pats are looking for.

I didnt know that, nice info.

 

[DaBruinz]

Price is slightly faster and slightly taller than Tate. But Tate has the better vision when it comes to running back kicks and punts. That is how Tate beat people. Not from pure speed, but from game speed.

I have said it in other threads, but I believe that Price will supplant Branch as the number 2 receiver by mid-season. Whether Tate holds onto the #3 or gets bumped down to #4 will depend on how he develops, but I could see him as the number 3 and Edelman as the #4.

What's going to be interesting is that the Pats now have a lot of options for Kick Returns and for Punt returns. For Kick-offs, you have Tate, but also Price, Vereen, McCourty, and Edelman. For Punt Returns, you have Tate, Welker, Edelman and Faulk (if he returns).

I can't remember the last time the Pats had this many options for return men.

 

[Off The Grid]

That's more PT than I thought. If he can give us Caldwell/Gaffney type production plus some key returns I'd be happy with that. Thanks for the stats and insight 'Dog.

Please stop posting that unspeakable word.

 

[PATSNUTme]

I can remember a few years ago people asking about Reggie Wayne's future as a COLT.
Not saying that Tate is going to be Reggie Wayne, but here are the first 2 years stats for Reggie as a COLT.

The Official Website of the Indianapolis Colts

YEAR NO YDS AVG LG TD HI-GAME
2001 27 345 12.8 43 0 78
2002 49 716 14.6 49 4 121


So maybe it's too early to talk about Tate's future as a PATRIOT.

 

[TheSolderKing]

I like him for sure. That 3 route thing is troubling to me


I love the guy on the reverse 1st and 10 each time