Mankins speaks as if he'll remain a Patriot

[Fencer]

Mankins touched on the big void created at right guard with Neal's retirement. "We're going to miss Steve. I've had a lot of teammates and Steve is by far one of the best teammates, best guys, you'll ever have," he said.

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Of course, that doesn't mean he really will stay, or even that he really thinks he'll stay. Still, it's encouraging that he speaks of himself as a Patriot in the future tense.

 

[RayClay]

Around the links at Andruzzi tourney - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Of course, that doesn't mean he really will stay, or even that he really thinks he'll stay. Still, it's encouraging that he speaks of himself as a Patriot in the future tense.

If he gets paid more than three times what Neal did, I guess...

Not my money, of course, so I hope he signs.

 

[supafly]

I don't know how much it really means obviously, but it certainly can't hurt.

I can see why you view it as reason for optimism.

To be honest, I just really have a gut feeling (That and 5 bucks will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks )that Mankins ends up staying. When you figure that some of the other important players such as Brady and Wilfork have now been taken care of, the youth invasion that is contract-friendly right now, the problem solved with Seymour leaving, and the importance of Mankins to blend in with the whole 'physicality' aspect, I do not see it as anywhere beyond the realm of possibility.

Chances are, the labor uncertainty may have also played a role in the negotiations, as the team may have been leaning slightly more towards the conservative side--rather than taking too many risks. I think the negotiations will be in a better light once the uncertainty in settled. That, and the fact that Belichick has supposedly been attempting to reach a middle ground with him can't necessarily be a bad thing either.

I think the team comes up a bit in the end financially speaking, and Logan appreciates Belichick's having his back + the comraderie with his teammates enough to meet somewhere in the middle (assuming the numbers are pretty close at least).

 

[DarrylS]

I don't know how much it really means obviously, but it certainly can't hurt.

I can see why you view it as reason for optimism.

To be honest, I just really have a gut feeling (That and 5 bucks will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks )that Mankins ends up staying. When you figure that some of the other important players such as Brady and Wilfork have now been taken care of, the youth invasion that is contract-friendly right now, the problem solved with Seymour leaving, and the importance of Mankins to blend in with the whole 'physicality' aspect, I do not see it as anywhere beyond the realm of possibility.

Chances are, the labor uncertainty may have also played a role in the negotiations, as the team may have been leaning slightly more towards the conservative side--rather than taking too many risks. I think the negotiations will be in a better light once the uncertainty in settled. That, and the fact that Belichick has supposedly been attempting to reach a middle ground with him can't necessarily be a bad thing either.

I think the team comes up a bit in the end financially speaking, and Logan appreciates Belichick's having his back + the comraderie with his teammates enough to meet somewhere in the middle (assuming the numbers are pretty close at least).

Love your optimism, and agree with your argument.

 

[Fencer]

Most guys who are free agents have an attitude something like:

"I want to stay, and if the team pays me sufficiently close to max dollar, I will stay. I hope that's how it works out."

Mankins' camp has at times has put out word that his attitude was a lot more negative than that. However, I take his quote as evidence that his attitude is back to the standard range.

Also, along with its other effects, the CBA change has a lot of face-saving potential, along the lines of "Well, before we (implicitly) disagreed about predictions for the CBA, but now we have actual facts, so let's proceed from there."

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Around the links at Andruzzi tourney - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Of course, that doesn't mean he really will stay, or even that he really thinks he'll stay. Still, it's encouraging that he speaks of himself as a Patriot in the future tense.

Exactly where did he do that?

I don't think he's going anywhere, hasn't budged out of Foxboro in over a year. He and his agent just tend to behave like emotional teenage girls at times... That said, not sure where you (or some of the other wishfully positive posters) are reading what you think you're reading...'cause there was nothing there. That he loves playing with these guys and will miss Neal since he's retired doesn't translate into he would miss the organization were he to move on...'cause Neal wouldn't be there either...

Mankins seems to have needed a scapegoat for his lack of contract and he opted to make it the guy who signs the checks because he's in personal denial that it's Belichick who sets the mark...

Mankins didn't say anything remotely like the quote you attempt to attribute to him or liken to his actual comments. Mankins did however provide more fodder for the irreperable harm mill...

“Just doing the same thing I did last year. I’ve been around for a while, I know how to get ready for football seasons. You just have to put in the work and get your body conditioning, that’s what it takes,” he said.

Funny how when these guys hold out or choose to roll the dice vs. taking an offer they don't see the potential for irreperable harm. But when the shoe is on the other foot someone is potentially jeopardizing their careers... They did more to jeopardize the careers of a large segment of their peers when they voted unanimously like sheep being led to slaughter to authorize something (decertification) that was correctly viewed as a tactical nuclear option. And when you pre-emptively launch that kind of attack against someone you claim to desire partnership with how naive is it to expect they would respond in any other manner than to launch their own nuclear weapon right back atcha in self defense.

They used to teach us about mutually assured self destruction back in the cold war arms race days. It was supposed to act as a first strike deterrent...for rational folks. Football players as a group are some incredibly irrational dudes...

 

[Fencer]

That he loves playing with these guys and will miss Neal since he's retired doesn't translate into he would miss the organization were he to move on...'cause Neal wouldn't be there either...

True, but irrelevant to my original point.

My point was that he said "we will" miss Neal, not "I will".

Now, to be literal, you could suggest that most of his ex-teammates will be in one place missing Neal, whereas Mankins -- also missing Neal -- will be some place different. But that's a less plausible read of his phrasing than my read is.

 

[supafly]

Exactly where did he do that?

I don't think he's going anywhere, hasn't budged out of Foxboro in over a year. He and his agent just tend to behave like emotional teenage girls at times... That said, not sure where you (or some of the other wishfully positive posters) are reading what you think you're reading...'cause there was nothing there. That he loves playing with these guys and will miss Neal since he's retired doesn't translate into he would miss the organization were he to move on...'cause Neal wouldn't be there either...

Mankins seems to have needed a scapegoat for his lack of contract and he opted to make it the guy who signs the checks because he's in personal denial that it's Belichick who sets the mark...

Mankins didn't say anything remotely like the quote you attempt to attribute to him or liken to his actual comments. Mankins did however provide more fodder for the irreperable harm mill...



Funny how when these guys hold out or choose to roll the dice vs. taking an offer they don't see the potential for irreperable harm. But when the shoe is on the other foot someone is potentially jeopardizing their careers... They did more to jeopardize the careers of a large segment of their peers when they voted unanimously like sheep being led to slaughter to authorize something (decertification) that was correctly viewed as a tactical nuclear option. And when you pre-emptively launch that kind of attack against someone you claim to desire partnership with how naive is it to expect they would respond in any other manner than to launch their own nuclear weapon right back atcha in self defense.

They used to teach us about mutually assured self destruction back in the cold war arms race days. It was supposed to act as a first strike deterrent...for rational folks. Football players as a group are some incredibly irrational dudes...

I can agree with one's thinking that it didn't necessarily mean much also, that's a valid enough point.

I don't know how much it really means obviously, but it certainly can't hurt.

I can see why you view it as reason for optimism.

This is all I said in regards to looking at it positively, then I described my 'gut' feeling that obviously isn't worth a lick of salt. But as far as the initial comment about Mankins' statement, I don't know if I have one strong opinion over the other or not...It may mean something, it may not. Chances are it probably doesn't mean much of anything, but as I said, I can see why the OP would view it as optimistic too.

 

[RayClay]

I don't know how much it really means obviously, but it certainly can't hurt.

I can see why you view it as reason for optimism.

To be honest, I just really have a gut feeling (That and 5 bucks will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks )that Mankins ends up staying. When you figure that some of the other important players such as Brady and Wilfork have now been taken care of, the youth invasion that is contract-friendly right now, the problem solved with Seymour leaving, and the importance of Mankins to blend in with the whole 'physicality' aspect, I do not see it as anywhere beyond the realm of possibility.

Chances are, the labor uncertainty may have also played a role in the negotiations, as the team may have been leaning slightly more towards the conservative side--rather than taking too many risks. I think the negotiations will be in a better light once the uncertainty in settled. That, and the fact that Belichick has supposedly been attempting to reach a middle ground with him can't necessarily be a bad thing either.

I think the team comes up a bit in the end financially speaking, and Logan appreciates Belichick's having his back + the comraderie with his teammates enough to meet somewhere in the middle (assuming the numbers are pretty close at least).

I agree with this idea. with the bookend tackles and many other players on rookie contracts, maybe they go for the big ontract for a guard for now. By the time the tackles come up for their first big contract, Mankins money might not look as big.

They definitely like to layer the big contracts over the years with smaller rookie, or vet FAs for balance, which is why they don't boom bust. If mankins is really a leader, maybe it's a good move.

 

[Triumph]

Maybe Mankins thinks the Pats will let him play under the franchise tag?

I dont.

 

[Deus Irae]

Maybe Mankins thinks the Pats will let him play under the franchise tag?

I dont.

I'm not sure what you mean by "let", but the Patriots have already used the tag on Mankins.

 

[Triumph]

I'm not sure what you mean by "let", but the Patriots have already used the tag on Mankins.

NE placed the non exclusive tag on Mankins so they can protect their interests and Logan can negotiate with other clubs. The starting asking price for Logan if a long term deal cannot be consummated in NE is two 1st round picks.

NE also tagged Cassel and a few other players, but those players did not receive franchise tag money either.

 

[Deus Irae]

NE placed the non exclusive tag on Mankins so they can protect their interests and Logan can negotiate with other clubs. The starting asking price for Logan if a long term deal cannot be consummated in NE is two 1st round picks.

NE also tagged Cassel and a few other players, but those players did not receive franchise tag money either.

Cassel signed the Franchise tag, and was going to get paid franchise QB money in K.C.. However, he received an offer with even more guaranteed money ($28 million) and the $15 million he'd have earned as a franchise player was paid to him in the first year, so he signed a 6 year deal worth over $60 million.

Samuel played for the full franchise figure in N.E., as well.

http://www.bostonherald.com/galleries/index.php?gallery_id=3526

So, Patriots franchised players have received full franchise money in the Franchise year (Samuel, Vinatieri) or gotten big deals with franchise money payouts or better in the first year (Wilfork with the Patriots, Cassel with Chiefs) or got big deals that I can't find first year numbers on right now (Jones).

I doubt Mankins is worried about "let". He's going to get paid a lot of money to play somewhere.

 

[patsfan-1982]

NE placed the non exclusive tag on Mankins so they can protect their interests and Logan can negotiate with other clubs. The starting asking price for Logan if a long term deal cannot be consummated in NE is two 1st round picks.

NE also tagged Cassel and a few other players, but those players did not receive franchise tag money either.

Cassel was a back up set to make like 14 million the only reason the pats put the TAG on him was to trade him, Mankins is a all pro LG leting him play on the TAG for 10 million when the going price for a all pro G is 8 million IMO is not the same as keeping a 14 million doller back up on the roster

 

[Sciz]

I'd love to see a deal get done. With Solder and Cannon, the Pats are now a center (Mike Brewster in the late 1st) away from having a crazy good OL of Solder, Mankins, Brewster, Cannon, and Vollmer. Mankins leaving would make another hole, which would be unfortunate.

That being said, I hope he realizes that no team is going to give him more than $8M a year.

 

[Fencer]

Paying a guy $X for one year isn't necessarily a worse deal than paying him 0.8X as the starting salary on a multi-year deal.

 

[Triumph]

Cassel signed the Franchise tag, and was going to get paid franchise QB money in K.C.. However, he received an offer with even more guaranteed money ($28 million) and the $15 million he'd have earned as a franchise player was paid to him in the first year, so he signed a 6 year deal worth over $60 million.

BFD, nobody is disputing that Mankins next signing bonus wouldnt be at least 10M or more.

So, Mankins wants 8M per season and NE wants to pay less, so they havent been able to get a contact done, but NE is willing to pay him 10M for 2011 when the cap by all accounts in going down.

Makes complete sense

Samuel played for the full franchise figure in N.E., as well.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't - Gallery - BostonHerald.com

Samuel only signed the tag after NE agreed to not use the tag again on Samuel after he held out all of training camp. That worked out well. Samuel played like a stud in the super bowl.

So, youll be happy to pay Mankins almost as much as Brady and for NE to get nothing for Mankins next season when he leaves.

So, Patriots franchised players have received full franchise money in the Franchise year (Samuel, Vinatieri) or gotten big deals with franchise money payouts or better in the first year (Wilfork with the Patriots, Cassel with Chiefs) or got big deals that I can't find first year numbers on right now (Jones).

I doubt Mankins is worried about "let". He's going to get paid a lot of money to play somewhere.

The whole thread is basically about Mankins playing in NE.

 

[Triumph]

Cassel was a back up set to make like 14 million the only reason the pats put the TAG on him was to trade him, Mankins is a all pro LG leting him play on the TAG for 10 million when the going price for a all pro G is 8 million IMO is not the same as keeping a 14 million doller back up on the roster

If it were carved in stone that Mankins would get 10M from the Pats in 2011 then NE would have tagged Mankins with the exclusive rights tag.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

BFD, nobody is disputing that Mankins next signing bonus wouldnt be at least 10M or more.

So, Mankins wants 8M per season and NE wants to pay less, so they havent been able to get a contact done, but NE is willing to pay him 10M for 2011 when the cap by all accounts in going down.

Makes complete sense

The Patriots are already under the projected reduced cap including the tag...



Samuel only signed the tag after NE agreed to not use the tag again on Samuel after he held out all of training camp. That worked out well. Samuel played like a stud in the super bowl.

Nice zinger... That said, while I'd have tagged and traded Asante they didn't chose to and this year it wasn't an option so I doubt they tagged him for kicks... They will play him for as many games as he shows for because on average over 7 seasons he will still have remained a bargain. And it gives them options because depending on how any eventual FA goes this season his demands may be tempered going forward due to age and market...

So, youll be happy to pay Mankins almost as much as Brady and for NE to get nothing for Mankins next season when he leaves.

It's not remotely almost. Brady's AAV is $16.8M ($18M new money AAV).


The whole thread is basically about Mankins playing in NE.

And he will. Just no saying how many games he will play although given the circumstances in play this time around I'd guess as many as he can... They will also likely allow a limited time during which tagged players can still be signed long term (used to be June or July I believe or 3+ months into their tag), and depending on how the market shakes out coming out of a lockout, again that may temper his demands on a long term basis...

And eventually if he walks they will get a 3rd round comp for him. So the calculation is 2011 roster value + 3 + remaining potential to extend or maybe a 2012 1 or lesser package.

And as for the exclusive vs. non exclusive tag argument, that's really moot. No player other than a franchise QB or possibly franchise DE is going to get that tag because nobody in their right mind is going to pay the franchise price for a OG as is...so why waste the money...

 

[Deus Irae]

BFD, nobody is disputing that Mankins next signing bonus wouldnt be at least 10M or more.

So, Mankins wants 8M per season and NE wants to pay less, so they havent been able to get a contact done, but NE is willing to pay him 10M for 2011 when the cap by all accounts in going down.

Makes complete sense

The Patriots will pay franchise tag value for franchise caliber players in order to buy time for a long term deal or to get another season out of the player before moving on.

Samuel only signed the tag after NE agreed to not use the tag again on Samuel after he held out all of training camp. That worked out well. Samuel played like a stud in the super bowl.

Nonetheless, he got paid full franchise value, despite what your post was trying to say.

So, youll be happy to pay Mankins almost as much as Brady and for NE to get nothing for Mankins next season when he leaves.

Under the old system, the Patriots would likely end up getting a 3rd for Mankins leaving. As for the money, I'd never had let it get to this point in the first place. The Patriots screwed up. I expect they know that. Now they'll have to pay for it, or leave Brady exposed.

The whole thread is basically about Mankins playing in NE.

My post was in response to your post, not the whole thread. Mankins will be getting paid franchise tag money. The only way for the Patriots to avoid that is to rescind the Franchise tag designation and allow Mankins to walk as a UFA. If that happens, Mankins will be getting paid, quite handsomely, by another team.