Stevan Ridley

[dryheat44]

I don't have a problem with drafting 2 running backs, but they didn't get good value for either of them. Vereen was a 3rd-4th round prospect and Ridley was a 4th-5th rounder.

According to whom?

 

[Shelterdog]

According to whom?

Mel Kiper and McShay!

The "value" question always bugs me. There are 31 other teams and you've got to assume that a few of them have evaluated guys the same way you did. Even if most NFL teams think Vereen is a fourth rounder, if you really like him but you don't pick him at 56 because he doesn't have value according to guys like Kiper, there's a damn good chance one of the other teams that does really like him is going to try and get him.

 

[Oswlek]

Justin Houston isn't an OLB convert anymore. He put up big numbers at the position last year. While ability to drop into coverage is useful, the Pats need someone that can rush the passer. The Broncos didn't draft Von Miller because of his coverage ability.

I agree with you that Vereen is a versatile back, but again, Kendall Hunter can do all of the things you mentioned.

For better or for worse, BB just doesn't seem interested in those johnny-one-note pass rushers. I know we look at it and say, "the team was in sub for 57% of its snaps, so they can still make strong use of a rush only guy" but BB clearly feels that such players don't warrant a high pick.

Looking only at the position it is hard to say whether he is right or wrong. But if you look at the entire body of work it is hard to argue with the overall team success. Even the much maligned defense is consistently top 10 in points allowed.

Yes, they've crapped the bed in the last two playoff games, but this is a young group we knew would need some time to develop. It was the offense that let them down. It isn't like the defenses in the heyday never had their spotty moments. The 2003 Patriot/Indy game was nearly identical to the 2010 one. The 2003 SB isn't going to go into any defensive training videos.

More than a pass rusher, this defense just needs time to develop.

As for Vereen, you might be right. I'm not familiar with Hunter. All I can say is Vereen isn't the little guy fans seem to think he is, he is well within the comfort level for full-time backs with regard to size. Whenever I watched footage of him, he was always making something out of nothing. The few times he actually got solid blocking, he turned them into big plays.

The kid just jumped off the screen to me and screamed "Patriot". The last time I felt this sure about someone it was Wes Welker.

 

[NFLroughdraft]

According to whom?

I use my own rankings from my website. I can understand overdrafting ONE of them, but it makes no sense to draft both so early.

 

[NFLroughdraft]

For better or for worse, BB just doesn't seem interested in those johnny-one-note pass rushers. I know we look at it and say, "the team was in sub for 57% of its snaps, so they can still make strong use of a rush only guy" but BB clearly feels that such players don't warrant a high pick.

Looking only at the position it is hard to say whether he is right or wrong. But if you look at the entire body of work it is hard to argue with the overall team success. Even the much maligned defense is consistently top 10 in points allowed.

Yes, they've crapped the bed in the last two playoff games, but this is a young group we knew would need some time to develop. It was the offense that let them down. It isn't like the defenses in the heyday never had their spotty moments. The 2003 Patriot/Indy game was nearly identical to the 2010 one. The 2003 SB isn't going to go into any defensive training videos.

More than a pass rusher, this defense just needs time to develop.

As for Vereen, you might be right. I'm not familiar with Hunter. All I can say is Vereen isn't the little guy fans seem to think he is, he is well within the comfort level for full-time backs with regard to size. Whenever I watched footage of him, he was always making something out of nothing. The few times he actually got solid blocking, he turned them into big plays.

The kid just jumped off the screen to me and screamed "Patriot". The last time I felt this sure about someone it was Wes Welker.

I like Vereen too. I agree with you and Cal has a pretty good track record of producing solid NFL backs. The bigger problem I had was they then turned around and took Ridley in the 3rd round. They didn't need both of those guys so early in the draft.

 

[Shelterdog]

I like Vereen too. I agree with you and Cal has a pretty good track record of producing solid NFL backs. The bigger problem I had was they then turned around and took Ridley in the 3rd round. They didn't need both of those guys so early in the draft.

The thing is Ridley is making the team and making the 45 man roster even if there's a really short preseason-and you don't have to cut anyone to make room for him.

Who do you draft instead of Ridley and who do you cut? Name names!

 

[NFLroughdraft]

The thing is Ridley is making the team and making the 45 man roster even if there's a really short preseason-and you don't have to cut anyone to make room for him.

Who do you draft instead of Ridley and who do you cut? Name names!

Ok. I would have taken any of these players over Ridley:

John Moffitt
Will Rackley
Clint Boling
David Arkin
Leonard Hankerson
Jerrel Jernigan
Edmond Gates
Denarius Moore
Sam Acho
Chris Carter

 

[Shelterdog]

Ok. I would have taken any of these players over Ridley:

John Moffitt
Will Rackley
Clint Boling
David Arkin
Leonard Hankerson
Jerrel Jernigan
Edmond Gates
Denarius Moore
Sam Acho
Chris Carter

Ok. Can you name just one?

 

[Off The Grid]

Diagnosing Vereen and Ras-I Dowling when no one else did, were phenomenal.

You're on Crack, my friend.

Both PatChick and Oswelk are excellent posters, but everybody and his mother ~ except for me, of course ~ was pimping Dowling, and I, Brother Jay, and Brother Duff, at the very least, were pimping Vereen.

 

[MaineMan]

Ok. I would have taken any of these players over Ridley:

John Moffitt
Will Rackley
Clint Boling
David Arkin

I'm already happier with Cannon than I might have been with any of the four above.

Leonard Hankerson
Jerrel Jernigan
Edmond Gates
Denarius Moore

I think the Skins are going to be very, very happy with Hankerson. I think he's going to turn out to be very special, and, yeah, I'd have taken him over Ridley. But I can't say the same about any of the others.

Sam Acho
Chris Carter

I'd probably have taken Acho over Ridley as well. I think he would have developed well in BB's system, though I'm not sure how he'll do in Arizona. He could be very solid for them. Or, he could knock around out there for a couple of years without doing much, then get snagged by BB on the cheap and blossom in New England.

But, it is what it is and it's probably not what we think. (B. Spikes, 2010)

 

[Off The Grid]

I use my own rankings from my website. I can understand overdrafting ONE of them, but it makes no sense to draft both so early.

I certainly agree that Ridley was over drafted, but not egregiously so.

And Vereen was drafted almost exactly where I ~ and at least one other: Brother Duff ~ had him going.

 

[dryheat44]

I use my own rankings from my website. I can understand overdrafting ONE of them, but it makes no sense to draft both so early.

Well, there's the rub....YOU, armed with 1/1000th of BBs information, felt they were overdrafted. I had Vereen as a late 2nd/early 3rd and Ridley as a UDFA.....so according to me, at least one of them was seriously over-drafted. That, however, doesn't make me right and Belichick wrong.

The fact is, as of this date Vereen and Ridley went exactly where they should've, and me, you, and every mock drafter out there, amateur and professional, were wrong. I might not agree...from your list I would have preferred Boling or Gates there, as well as Delone Carter or Alex Green if we were going with another RB, but my preferences =/= the right moves.

 

[Oswlek]

Well, there's the rub....YOU, armed with 1/1000th of BBs information, felt they were overdrafted. I had Vereen as a late 2nd/early 3rd and Ridley as a UDFA.....so according to me, at least one of them was seriously over-drafted. That, however, doesn't make me right and Belichick wrong.

The fact is, as of this date Vereen and Ridley went exactly where they should've, and me, you, and every mock drafter out there, amateur and professional, were wrong. I might not agree...from your list I would have preferred Boling or Gates there, as well as Delone Carter or Alex Green if we were going with another RB, but my preferences =/= the right moves.

As many have said, performance and performance alone will determine whether they were good picks.

 

[NFLroughdraft]

Well, there's the rub....YOU, armed with 1/1000th of BBs information, felt they were overdrafted. I had Vereen as a late 2nd/early 3rd and Ridley as a UDFA.....so according to me, at least one of them was seriously over-drafted. That, however, doesn't make me right and Belichick wrong.

The fact is, as of this date Vereen and Ridley went exactly where they should've, and me, you, and every mock drafter out there, amateur and professional, were wrong. I might not agree...from your list I would have preferred Boling or Gates there, as well as Delone Carter or Alex Green if we were going with another RB, but my preferences =/= the right moves.

Well you're right in that you can't grade a draft 3 weeks after it takes place. All I'm saying is that the media passes off everything BB does as gold. He's earned some of that praise by winning so many games, but he isn't the draft genius that he gets credit for. I remember laughing when he took O'Connell in the third round. There was no way he had any business getting drafted that high.

I'll say the same about the Vereen/Ridley combo. Drafting one of those guys where they went is one thing, but there's no reason to take both.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Another thing to factor in Ridley's value is special teams. He played them very well at LSU according to Les Miles. I'm sure BB saw that film. I'm also sure none of us amateur draftniks factor special teams value into a prospects grade. That's probably what pushed him from a 4th-5th round rb into the 3rd. This kid will be the least of our worries.

 

[Oswlek]

Well you're right in that you can't grade a draft 3 weeks after it takes place. All I'm saying is that the media passes off everything BB does as gold. He's earned some of that praise by winning so many games, but he isn't the draft genius that he gets credit for. I remember laughing when he took O'Connell in the third round. There was no way he had any business getting drafted that high.

I'll say the same about the Vereen/Ridley combo. Drafting one of those guys where they went is one thing, but there's no reason to take both.

The funny thing is, BB is without a doubt one of the best draft pickers in the league over the past decade. Any way you measure it, pro bowls, starters, guys still in the league, whatever, BB's selections will be in the top 5 across the board.

He just has two things going against him.

1) For whatever reason, NE was legitimately poor after the first round from 2004-2008, and simply poor overall from 2006-2008. Thankfully, they offset this somewhat by mining the UDFA fields very well and by the WR trades in 2007.

2) Our close proximity to the team magnifies every mistake and diminishes those of others. But the fact remains that every team has at least an equal amount of wiffs over the past 10 seasons. And NE has clearly turned the corner over the past two years, with Pioli's absence being an interesting correlation.

 

[Shelterdog]

Well you're right in that you can't grade a draft 3 weeks after it takes place. All I'm saying is that the media passes off everything BB does as gold. He's earned some of that praise by winning so many games, but he isn't the draft genius that he gets credit for. I remember laughing when he took O'Connell in the third round. There was no way he had any business getting drafted that high.

The two biggest BB overdrafts were, without a doubt, Vollmer and Mankins. They both got picked two to four rounds above where most mock drafts had them going.

Did you laugh at those picks?

 

[captain stone]

According to whom?

NFL Draft - 2011_RB Draft Prospects - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

2011 NFL Draft, Overall Rankings - DraftCountdown.com

Great Blue North Draft Report

ProFootballWeekly.com - Draft Rankings
(PFW does have Vereen at 64, however)

Shane Vereen - 2011 Draft Tracker - SI.com
Stevan Ridley - 2011 Draft Tracker - SI.com

 

[captain stone]

Well, there's the rub....YOU, armed with 1/1000th of BBs information, felt they were overdrafted.

With all of the information available today from written audio & video sources, to claim that we have merely 1/1000th of Bill's info is simply untrue. It's ludicrous, disingenious & irresponsible to even make that claim.

 

[dryheat44]

With all of the information available today from written audio & video sources, to claim that we have merely 1/1000th of Bill's info is simply untrue. It's ludicrous, disingenious & irresponsible to even make that claim.

Well, seeing how Belichick probably has coaches film on every NCAA game they've played, more than likely a few high school games, interviews with everybody connected with the kid, medical records, court records, and face to face interviews and private workouts, I stand by my statement.

We have youtube highlights, workout numbers, scouts disinformation, and Mel Kiper and his ilk of "experts".