Pats brass thinking ahead per usual...

[PatFan1932]

With a shortened preseason and/or non existent off season resulting is shortened playbooks what type of play is easiest to install to learn and be cohesive amongst all 11 players on the field?

I would think it would be running plays. With less reads at the line, timing amongst players (route running), and the such. Tell me after the draft that they are not building to ground and pound more then any of the most recent Pats teams!

 

[PatFan1932]

and this could be the reason... Its definitely bucking the last decade trend of becoming a pass happy league.

 

[Gwedd]

Also take a look at the guys they took who came from a "pro-style" college offense. One of them, at least, Ryan Mallett came from a team that uses an almost identical system for play-calling as the Patriots offense.

Now, no one expects Mallett to get anywhere near the field this season, but if he was called upon (God forbid!) there's a measure of confidence that he wouldn't be near as confused by the playbook as any other rookie.

I'd have to agree that the thought of a shortened season and/or abbreviated training camp played a larger-then-normal part in the Patriot's selections at this year's drafts.

 

[jays52]

I also think they are looking ahead, but it's not directly related to the lockout. I also think this initiative started to show itself last year with the draft picks and further with the schemes as the season progressed.

The spread offense is now everywhere. It started gaining prominence at the professional level with NE in 07 and has grown exponentially since. Defenses have adjusted accordingly with the most successful becoming pursuit and penetration oriented. You beat those defenses with a good run game. College teams have combated these schemes with the midline and zone read options. In the pros the defense very seldom will have to respect the QB keep on a zone run (zone read option), so they have success by aggressively crashing the backside end. The easy answer is to peel a fullback to catch that end, but the I is a dying breed. Further, the fullback is a unitasker against these new defenses.

So, what's the solution? Motion-based tight end blocking accomplishes everything a fullback does. The TE also matches up favorably against the penetration and pursuit personnel when released in the passing game. A balanced formation also causes safety declaration pre-snap. It further adds complexity and ambiguity to the offense. I agree that they are ahead of the game, but it is in designing an offense that is a spreadkiller killer.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Also take a look at the guys they took who came from a "pro-style" college offense. One of them, at least, Ryan Mallett came from a team that uses an almost identical system for play-calling as the Patriots offense.

Now, no one expects Mallett to get anywhere near the field this season, but if he was called upon (God forbid!) there's a measure of confidence that he wouldn't be near as confused by the playbook as any other rookie.

I'd have to agree that the thought of a shortened season and/or abbreviated training camp played a larger-then-normal part in the Patriot's selections at this year's drafts.

Don't forget Dowling played for Al Groh, who worked with BB and Parcells several times. The defenses are quite similar so Dowling could be a quick contributor as well.

 

[Gwedd]

I also think they are looking ahead, but it's not directly related to the lockout. I also think this initiative started to show itself last year with the draft picks and further with the schemes as the season progressed.

The spread offense is now everywhere. It started gaining prominence at the professional level with NE in 07 and has grown exponentially since. Defenses have adjusted accordingly with the most successful becoming pursuit and penetration oriented. You beat those defenses with a good run game. College teams have combated these schemes with the midline and zone read options. In the pros the defense very seldom will have to respect the QB keep on a zone run (zone read option), so they have success by aggressively crashing the backside end. The easy answer is to peel a fullback to catch that end, but the I is a dying breed. Further, the fullback is a unitasker against these new defenses.

So, what's the solution? Motion-based tight end blocking accomplishes everything a fullback does. The TE also matches up favorably against the penetration and pursuit personnel when released in the passing game. A balanced formation also causes safety declaration pre-snap. It further adds complexity and ambiguity to the offense. I agree that they are ahead of the game, but it is in designing an offense that is a spreadkiller killer.

Absolutely agree with this. My point about the strike issue was that it likely had a bigger impact on draft considerations THIS year vis-a-vis rookies who could more easily step and play if needs be sooner rather than later.

 

[Gwedd]

Don't forget Dowling played for Al Groh, who worked with BB and Parcells several times. The defenses are quite similar so Dowling could be a quick contributor as well.

You betcha.

 

[eom]

I'm not trying to contradict, or slight your post, but I think maybe people get a little carried away trying to read into what belichick does.

it's not like he's never run the ball, and that whole 2007 thing was most likely mcdaniels, who's no longer on the team.

yes, we drafted a couple good te's recently, when we had zero on the roster, and yes, we drafted a couple rb this year, when we basically only had rfa bjge and woodhead.

cannon was supposedly a 1/2 talent we got in much later rounds, we needed to pipeline guards, and solder was a position of need as well.

not saying they won't run the ball, but I think they'll run a balanced offense, and these recent acquisitions aren't some machiavellian scheme..

 

[Triumph]

Don't forget Dowling played for Al Groh, who worked with BB and Parcells several times. The defenses are quite similar so Dowling could be a quick contributor as well.

Yup. Groh said they almost used the same terminology as the NE defense.

 

[Triumph]

With a shortened preseason and/or non existent off season resulting is shortened playbooks what type of play is easiest to install to learn and be cohesive amongst all 11 players on the field?

I would think it would be running plays. With less reads at the line, timing amongst players (route running), and the such. Tell me after the draft that they are not building to ground and pound more then any of the most recent Pats teams!

Very good observation.

I think also that the emphasis on the run game coincides with the 2 TE offense the Pats ran last year. The NE offense was in a 2 TE set more than any other team in the NFL last season.

 

[DarrylS]

I thought that this draft was a labor dispute draft, in that none of the draftees have to contribute when the season begins.. resign Matt Light for a couple of years and you are pretty much set.

This draft sets us for the future, more than this year...

OTOH imagine those teams like Carolina who are going to have to integrate a QB into their offense with no OTA's, socialialization into the world of the NFL and probably an abbreviated TC.

 

[Spiral]

Absolutely agree with this. My point about the strike issue was that it likely had a bigger impact on draft considerations THIS year vis-a-vis rookies who could more easily step and play if needs be sooner rather than later.

Agree. Here's the underlying logic that could explain the Patriots' draft:

Robert Kraft probably has better insights on the labor situation than anyone.

Maybe the Patriots are assuming that there will be no more than two or three weeks of training camp before the season starts.

Take a day or so with no pads at the start of camp, and the final week of camp for game preparation. That leaves hardly any time to evaluate or teach rookies.

After less than two weeks of practice, each of these draftees has to beat out a veteran for a roster spot, go on a list, or be put on waivers. Given the impending anti-trust litigation, the league may also be warning teams against the traditional practice of using the IR list to stash rookies for a red-shirt year.

Within that context, it makes sense that several of the draft picks are in plug-and-play positions with corresponding open roster spots, such as CB and RB. Solder has a roster spot as the starter or swing tackle from day one. Mallett fits on the roster as the 3rd QB, Cannon is NFI or PUP, and Lee Smith and Malcolm Williams are practice squad. The rest of the picks were moved into 2012.

This year, there will probably be little or no opportunity for most college DE/LB types to earn playing time. The Pats are acting like there won't be enough time for one of those types to come in and learn enough about the system to upgrade the roster. There is room for an upgrade at this position, but I believe BB has already determined that the upgrade will be provided by a free agent, not a college DE with two weeks of practice.

 

[Oswlek]

Lee Smith likely won't make the practice squad.

I don't disagree about the DE/OLB spot, but don't sleep on Carter. He has all the measurables that the bigger names have and actually did more dropping into coverage than most of them.

 

[Timbo717]

With a shortened preseason and/or non existent off season resulting is shortened playbooks what type of play is easiest to install to learn and be cohesive amongst all 11 players on the field?

I would think it would be running plays. With less reads at the line, timing amongst players (route running), and the such. Tell me after the draft that they are not building to ground and pound more then any of the most recent Pats teams!

I think we will see some new style of run plays to use the two draft picks abilities to their best. In terms of the passing game, it seems like most of the key players involved in the pass game from last year are coming back so I think they'll be good at working out the timing. They'll have some new schemes here and there but the TE, WR, Woodhead, BJGE are all coming back. On offense I would imagine the biggest challenge would be getting the two RBs up to speed. I think it'll be similar to last year and like I said, some new schemes/play to take advantage of the new RBs.

 

[Shelterdog]

Lee Smith likely won't make the practice squad.

I don't disagree about the DE/OLB spot, but don't sleep on Carter. He has all the measurables that the bigger names have and actually did more dropping into coverage than most of them.

Lee Smith is on the roster, on IR, or on another team. He's too good a prospect to stay on the practice squad. I suspect he ends up on the IR with a phantom injury but it's completely up to Crumpler's health and readiness to play.

If Carter can play some serious special teams (and he might be a little slow to do so) he's got a pretty good chance of sticking. Maybe he takes the Murrell/White special teams slot; maybe they don't need two backup ILB/special teams contributors in Guyton and Fletcher and he takes one of their slots.

 

[Oswlek]

Lee Smith is on the roster, on IR, or on another team. He's too good a prospect to stay on the practice squad. I suspect he ends up on the IR with a phantom injury but it's completely up to Crumpler's health and readiness to play.

If Carter can play some serious special teams (and he might be a little slow to do so) he's got a pretty good chance of sticking. Maybe he takes the Murrell/White special teams slot; maybe they don't need two backup ILB/special teams contributors in Guyton and Fletcher and he takes one of their slots.

I'm confused about your Guyton/Fletcher comment. I see them both as being significant contributors to the LB rotation and neither is anywhere near in danger of losing their spot.

 

[Shelterdog]

I'm confused about your Guyton/Fletcher comment. I see them both as being significant contributors to the LB rotation and neither is anywhere near in danger of losing their spot.

They're both good but (1) they're a little redundant of each other as passing-game oriented backup ILBs, (2) Guyton only has one year left on his contract, (3) I expect Spikes to play more and more as he gets experience in the passing game so you don't need two backup ILBs as much.

That being said if I were a betting man I'd expect them both to be on the team.

It's more likely that Carter is on the practice squad, that if he shows real talent he takes a spot from the worst of Moore/Ninkovich/TBC, or that he takes the designated LB special teams spot that Murrell and White have had (although he's kind of big and slow for that job), but it's conceivable to me that he takes a spot from an ILB.

 

[Oswlek]

They're both good but (1) they're a little redundant of each other as passing-game oriented backup ILBs, (2) Guyton only has one year left on his contract, (3) I expect Spikes to play more and more as he gets experience in the passing game so you don't need two backup ILBs as much.

That being said if I were a betting man I'd expect them both to be on the team.

It's more likely that Carter is on the practice squad, that if he shows real talent he takes a spot from the worst of Moore/Ninkovich/TBC, or that he takes the designated LB special teams spot that Murrell and White have had (although he's kind of big and slow for that job), but it's conceivable to me that he takes a spot from an ILB.

I don't see them as being redunant at all, they are both coverage ILBs, but their games are very different. Personally, I think BB has big plans for Fletcher, he seems like a swiss army knife type guy that can be moved all over the place. Something tells me he is the next fan favorite in the middle of the field.

Carter isn't slow at all, though he is 15 or so lbs heavier than White.

 

[Shelterdog]

I don't see them as being redunant at all, they are both coverage ILBs, but their games are very different. Personally, I think BB has big plans for Fletcher, he seems like a swiss army knife type guy that can be moved all over the place. Something tells me he is the next fan favorite in the middle of the field.

Carter isn't slow at all, though he is 15 or so lbs heavier than White.

They're both good players but there are only so many roster spots and fourth ILB, when Mayo never leaves the field, is one to look at. Anyhow I think the probably both make the squad if they're healthy.

Carter isn't slow for 252 (a weight he's likely to increase to play 3-4 OLB), but there's a reason the special teams specialist LBs like Izzo, Murrell, and White are closer to 230-it's really hard to stay fast sprinting 40 yards or more a pop on multiple special teams units when you're carrying more weight.

 

[Oswlek]

They're both good players but there are only so many roster spots and fourth ILB, when Mayo never leaves the field, is one to look at. Anyhow I think the probably both make the squad if they're healthy.

Carter isn't slow for 252 (a weight he's likely to increase to play 3-4 OLB), but there's a reason the special teams specialist LBs like Izzo, Murrell, and White are closer to 230-it's really hard to stay fast sprinting 40 yards or more a pop on multiple special teams units when you're carrying more weight.

Yeah, I hear you about the 4th ILB being a luxury, but again, I don't see Fletcher's role as simply being that. I see him as a "7th LB" that will be used all over the front 7. I really like that kid.