08 Draft 3 years later

[signbabybrady]

Three years later, assessing '08 class - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

I find it extremely interesting that even in a "bad draft" he came away with one of the Best LB in the NFL in Mayo and a Starting RB in BJGE and a LB who is boderline starter with a foothold on a solid role in Guyton.

Sure there were plenty of busts Wheatly, Crable, and O'Connel.

I know BJGE and Guyton were UDFA's but I think it is worth noting that in a year where his drafting may not have been the best he still managed to find talent via rookies. And IMO any rookie class that includes a pereniall pro bowl contender and two other solid players who are starters or close to it is probably more than most get out of an average rookie class.

 

[BradfordPatsFan]

Patriots also lost their own 1st round pick in that draft due to the taping "scandal". Who knows what that could/would have yielded in terms of players/picks for either that draft or 09 where they already had several second round picks.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

I remember panning this draft as it happened, stating that Mayo better be great because everyone else was putrid. In hindsight I was right, HOWEVER, if you take a gander at this draft now:

2008 NFL Draft Pick History and Results - National Football League - ESPN


You will see that really nobody stands out, there is no you could have had Pro-Bowler X instead of Wheatley, Crable, etc. The only real bad one that stands out is Kroy Beirmann with the slection right after Slater........

Overall it was one of the worst draft classes I can remember.

 

[patriotscpfc]

I'd argue that Indy shouldnt be on the same level as NE or Pittsburgh in that article.

Pats got an All-Pro in Mayo. A decent slot CB in Wilhite. And 2 other starters.

The Colts got an average Guard.and a deep threat WR.

The Steelers got a great value RB.

 

[Shelterdog]

I'd argue that Indy shouldnt be on the same level as NE or Pittsburgh in that article.

Pats got an All-Pro in Mayo. A decent slot CB in Wilhite. And 2 other starters.

The Colts got an average Guard.and a deep threat WR.

The Steelers got a great value RB.

I wouldn't count Guyton/BJGE in evaluating their draft. It's obviously relevant to the FO's overall performance.

They got a great player in Mayo, a decent corner in Wilhite, a decent ST player in Slater, and a 2009 second.

That's not a great haul for starting the day with a high first and an extra third, but it's not dreadful either. Historically only about 75% of first rounders pan out (and by that I mean become starters or top subs who got on the field, good backup quarterbacks, and dominant special teams players) who stick in the league for four or more years, only 50% of second rounders, a third of third rounders, about 20% of foruth and fifth rounders and about 10% of sixth and seventh rounders, so an average team only gets (roughly) about 2-2.5 solid players a year (.75 in the first, .5 in the second, .3 in the third, .2 in each of the fourth and fifth, and .1 in each of the sixth and seventh).

If you cancel out the third the Pats used for a 2009 second they should have had about 2 solid players and they go one great one in Mayo and two marginal "solid players" in Wilhite and Slater.

 

[Deus Irae]

Three years later, assessing '08 class - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

I find it extremely interesting that even in a "bad draft" he came away with one of the Best LB in the NFL in Mayo and a Starting RB in BJGE and a LB who is boderline starter with a foothold on a solid role in Guyton.

Sure there were plenty of busts Wheatly, Crable, and O'Connel.

I know BJGE and Guyton were UDFA's but I think it is worth noting that in a year where his drafting may not have been the best he still managed to find talent via rookies. And IMO any rookie class that includes a pereniall pro bowl contender and two other solid players who are starters or close to it is probably more than most get out of an average rookie class.

As you pointed out, BJGE and Guyton were UDFA, so they don't count. Outside of Mayo, the Patriots draft sucked.

 

[Deus Irae]

I remember panning this draft as it happened, stating that Mayo better be great because everyone else was putrid. In hindsight I was right, HOWEVER, if you take a gander at this draft now:

2008 NFL Draft Pick History and Results - National Football League - ESPN


You will see that really nobody stands out, there is no you could have had Pro-Bowler X instead of Wheatley, Crable, etc. The only real bad one that stands out is Kroy Beirmann with the slection right after Slater........

Overall it was one of the worst draft classes I can remember.

The Patriots missed on some excellent players. An extremely quick (5 seconds) glance at the 3rd round shows:

Jamaal Charles
Jermichael Finley
Mario Manningham


And Charles is a Pro Bowler and All-Pro

 

[patriotscpfc]

As you pointed out, BJGE and Guyton were UDFA, so they don't count. Outside of Mayo, the Patriots draft sucked.

The draft didn't suck. The 2nd and 3rd rounds were awful though.

Wilhite is still here. Despite certain analysts thinking he sucked. He's a decent Nickel/Dime CB. People think he sucks because he got overused. He should never have been a Starting CB in this league. But because O'Neal, Webster, Wheatley were awful, Wilhite had to start and got burned.

Slater is still here in the role he was drafted for. A Special Teamer. And that's what he does.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Half the battle is when you suck and still manage a C+.

 

[Deus Irae]

The draft didn't suck. The 2nd and 3rd rounds were awful though.

Wilhite is still here. Despite certain analysts thinking he sucked. He's a decent Nickel/Dime CB. People think he sucks because he got overused. He should never have been a Starting CB in this league. But because O'Neal, Webster, Wheatley were awful, Wilhite had to start and got burned.

Slater is still here in the role he was drafted for. A Special Teamer. And that's what he does.

I wanted Wilhite to be a good nickel/dime back. That's where I projected him. He's not been up to the task, though. As for Slater, come on. He's a gunner on special teams. That's pretty much it.

It's an "F" draft without the Mayo pick.

 

[Oswlek]

I wanted Wilhite to be a good nickel/dime back. That's where I projected him. He's not been up to the task, though. As for Slater, come on. He's a gunner on special teams. That's pretty much it.

It's an "F" draft without the Mayo pick.

He was a very good nickel back last year before getting hurt.

 

[Deus Irae]

He was a very good nickel back last year before getting hurt.

No, he wasn't. I wish he had been.

 

[Kontradiction]

The Patriots missed on some excellent players. An extremely quick (5 seconds) glance at the 3rd round shows:

Jamaal Charles
Jermichael Finley
Mario Manningham


And Charles is a Pro Bowler and All-Pro

Ahh, the good old days. I remember getting absolutely shelled in the draft forum as a relative noob because I brought up the mere possibility of drafting Mario Manningham. That was fun.

 

[Oswlek]

No, he wasn't. I wish he had been.

Actually, he was.

 

[Deus Irae]

Actually, he was.

He's better as a nickel than on the outside, but he wasn't very good even in the nickel. He doesn't know when to look for the ball, which is a large part of why he has only 9 passes defensed over the course of his three year career (including 13 starts), despite being frequently targeted by opposing QBs.

 

[signbabybrady]

As you pointed out, BJGE and Guyton were UDFA, so they don't count. Outside of Mayo, the Patriots draft sucked.

My point in opening this thread was not so much to regrade the 08 draft but actaully more to point out that even in a so called bad draft he still found talent after the draft that makes up for his so called bad draft.

IMO BBs ability to find UDFA is something that is sort of uncanny I read somewhere that he has had at least one UDFA make the team each of the last 5 or 6 years dating back to Tulls rookie year(edit: actually dates back to Gay's rookie year Tully was a 7th rder the year before). And this is a UDFA making a perenial playoff contender and not making a perenial basement dweller.

Everyone is going to make mistakes in the draft but not everyone is so adept at finding hidden gems like that.

 

[Oswlek]

He's better as a nickel than on the outside, but he wasn't very good even in the nickel. He doesn't know when to look for the ball, which is a large part of why he has only 9 passes defensed over the course of his three year career (including 13 starts), despite being frequently targeted by opposing QBs.

He clearly shouldn't be outside, but I went into 2010 wanting him gone and he won me over by repeatedly being in good position. Wilhite going down and forcing Chung to move to slot on passing downs was a big reason why they struggled on 3rd and long later in the season. (Initially it was a combo of the LBs running around as if they were blindfolded and Butler). I still have nightmares of Manning to Blair White (covered by Chung) looking like the old Manning/Marv combo.

 

[Deus Irae]

My point in opening this thread was not so much to regrade the 08 draft but actaully more to point out that even in a so called bad draft he still found talent after the draft that makes up for his so called bad draft.

IMO BBs ability to find UDFA is something that is sort of uncanny I read somewhere that he has had at least one UDFA make the team each of the last 5 or 6 years dating back to Tulls rookie year. And this is a UDFA making a perenial playoff contender and not making a perenial basement dweller.

Everyone is going to make mistakes in the draft but not everyone is so adept at finding hidden gems like that.

There are UDFA all over the league. People here act as if Belichick has a monopoly on it. Hell, people are debating linebackers in thread after thread. Well, James Harrison was a UDFA. Cameron Wake is another, as are Bart Scott, Miles Austin, and many more.

I've spent a lot of time defending Patriots drafts, Including the 2006 and 2007 drafts, but the 2008 draft is basically indefensible outside of Mayo.

 

[Deus Irae]

He clearly shouldn't be outside, but I went into 2010 wanting him gone and he won me over by repeatedly being in good position. Wilhite going down and forcing Chung to move to slot on passing downs was a big reason why they struggled on 3rd and long later in the season. (Initially it was a combo of the LBs running around as if they were blindfolded and Butler). I still have nightmares of Manning to Blair White (covered by Chung) looking like the old Manning/Marv combo.

But you're judging on a curve. Chung was awful in coverage, especially in the first couple of games after he took over for Wilhite. That doesn't make Wilhite good, it just makes him look good in comparison. Wilhite is frequently able to keep up, but his lack of ball skills makes that just about useless.


He's just not good, even as a nickel.

 

[DaBruinz]

The Patriots missed on some excellent players. An extremely quick (5 seconds) glance at the 3rd round shows:

Jamaal Charles
Jermichael Finley
Mario Manningham


And Charles is a Pro Bowler and All-Pro

In 2008, the Pats had Watson as their primary TE. They also had a youngster in David Thomas who they were hoping would break out.

They had Moss, Welker, and Jabar Gaffney as their primary receivers and they were hoping that Chad Jackson would finally break through.

For RBs, they had Maroney, Faulk, Morris, Heath Evans and had signed Lamont Jordan.

Could they have added those players? Sure. But there is no guarantee that they'd have developed the way they have.

Yes, the draft was mediocre.. O'Connell not making it beyond the 1st season. Crable made it 3 seasons, though 2 were spent on IR.. And Wheatley spent the better part of his 3 seasons injured.