Ras-I Dowling

[BPF]

I like this site, this was posted on 4/20:
The Scouts Notebook

* What do we do with CB Ras-I Dowling? He is 6’1, 198. He ran 4.39 at his Pro Day. Dowling started for 4 years. In his first 3 years he totaled 8 INTs, 4 FFs, and broke up 27 passes. Go watch some tape. At least half the picks came with him jumping up to snag the ball. He has good hands, instincts, and ball skills. His value is hurt by the fact he was injured for most of his Senior season and then missed the Senior Bowl and most of the Combine. We’re talking about nagging injuries, not ACL type stuff, but teams hate when they can’t see a guy in his final season and then the normal postseason activities. While Dowling is talented, he’s not the same level of CB as the Big 3. He’s got their size and speed, but not the cover skills. Dowling doesn’t have great hips, but is a CB and not a Safety. One odd thing is that he didn’t press and jam receivers all that much. Mainly played off. Dowling is worth an early 2nd, but it won’t shock me to see him go late in the 1st. Gil Brandt said there were 25 teams and 11 DB coaches at Dowling’s Pro Day. That tells you what the league thinks of this guy.

 

[BPF]

Back on March 29th he had this nugget on Mallett.

Wildcard Draft Class
March 29th, 2011 by Tommy Lawlor
by Tommy Lawlor - The Scouts Notebook

This is really the year of the wildcard. I can’t recall a draft class with more odd situations in recent years. Think about some of the 1st round prospects we’re talking about.

* Cam Newton – You can argue that he’s a bust waiting to happen or possibly one of the most talented QBs prospects ever to come along.

* Blaine Gabbert – He looks like a good prospect physically, but in 2 years as a starter in a very QB friendly system he posted 40 TDs and 18 picks. He only delivered one impressive win (vs OU) in that time and was 0-2 in bowl games (losing to Navy and Iowa). He’s a franchise QB?

* Marcell Dareus – Very good prospect who has a strong chance to go 2nd overall. Still, compare him to Ndamukong Suh, who went 2nd overall last year. Are they even in the same zip code? Suh took over games and was dominant. Dareus played in a different system, but had nowhere even close to the same level of impact. Is he really worth the #2 pick? Suh was worth #1, but lost out to a QB.

* Nick Fairley – One-year wonder with some other questions. Still, he is gifted and played great in 2010.

* Da’Quan Bowers – See above. Bowers questions are mainly medical, but they are serious. Could go in the first couple of picks, but won’t be on all 32 draft boards due to concerns.

* Robert Quinn – Suspended for the year. We’re judging him on 2009 tape.

* Adrian Clayborn – Had a great Junior season, but didn’t play as well in 2010. Now we find out he’s got some potential medical concerns.

* Cameron Heyward – At times he looks like the most dominant lineman in all of college football. Doesn’t always play up to that. Plus, he’s coming off surgery. What’s his value?

* Jimmy Smith – He’s big, fast, and can cover. He also failed multiple drug tests and had some issues. He only had 3 career picks.

* Jake Locker – Could go in the Top 20…of Round 1 or 2. Lots to love, but he’s still an erratic passer.

* Ryan Mallett – Started the year as a Top 10 candidate, but now might slide to the 3rd round due to off-field issues and questions about his maturity.

* Danny Watkins – One of the top interior linemen in the draft, but he will be 27 during the upcoming season. How the heck to do value him? Early 2nd round? Does he slide to the 3rd?

* Marcus Gilchrist – He’s athletic. He can cover. No real character issues. But…he only had 1 INT in his career at Clemson. How is that possible for a guy with his ability and playing time?

There are other guys I’m not even covering. The list could go on. I’m sure teams will find plenty of talented players, but this is just a very odd class. It should make for an interesting 3 days when the draft does finally get here. This will really be a Chutes ‘n Ladders draft. We’ll see more than a few guys going earlier than expected and a handful really sliding.

 

[BPF]

March 23rd:

* LSU Junior RB Stevan Ridley is talented, but I really wish he had stayed for his Senior season. I see a lot of potential, but I think his value is hurt by coming off one good season. He’ll get under-drafted, but has the potential to be a good pro.

 

[AzPatsFan]

You have done some very nice digging...:rocker:

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

A site and analyst I also enjoy reading.

 

[Commodore K'nection]

I don't get it. If you're gonna take Ras-I with the 33rd pick, why not just take the Prince @ 17 instead of Solder. Then take Gabe Carimi at 28 instead of trading out. Then you'd have Amukamara/Carimi instead of Dowling/Solder. Might not have Saints 2012 1st rd pick, but for all intents and purposes that pick is really a 2nd rd pick as it will be 26 or later.

 

[Sciz]

I don't get it. If you're gonna take Ras-I with the 33rd pick, why not just take the Prince @ 17 instead of Solder. Then take Gabe Carimi at 28 instead of trading out. Then you'd have Amukamara/Carimi instead of Dowling/Solder. Might not have Saints 2012 1st rd pick, but for all intents and purposes that pick is really a 2nd rd pick as it will be 26 or later.

Because Solder was deemed a better player than Prince at 17. I don't disagree at all. And Carimi would never be anything more than a right tackle in the Patriots' scheme.

 

[Commodore K'nection]

Because Solder was deemed a better player than Prince at 17. I don't disagree at all. And Carimi would never be anything more than a right tackle in the Patriots' scheme.

To me it seems Prince is a far superior CB to Dowling. At one point Prince was rated neck and neck with Patrick Peterson. Dowling never even sniffed the top 15.

Carimi and Solder were pretty closely rated, with Solder the consensus better prospect. However, Pats are unique that they have Sebastian Vollmer they can kick to LT if they draft a RT. Very few teams have this luxury.

Bottom line, Amukamara/Carimi to me has more value than a Solder/Dowling combo. The drop off between the CBs is pretty big, whereas Solder may have high upside, but low floor, whereas Carimi has high floor/decent upside.

 

[Dufflebagz]

To me it seems Prince is a far superior CB to Dowling. At one point Prince was rated neck and neck with Patrick Peterson. Dowling never even sniffed the top 15.

Don't base your opinions around what the "experts" rankings were. For all we know BB had Dowling as the 2nd best CB in the draft.

Solder may have high upside, but low floor, whereas Carimi has high floor/decent upside.

How do you figure?

 

[tuckeverlasting]

To me it seems Prince is a far superior CB to Dowling. At one point Prince was rated neck and neck with Patrick Peterson. Dowling never even sniffed the top 15.

Carimi and Solder were pretty closely rated, with Solder the consensus better prospect. However, Pats are unique that they have Sebastian Vollmer they can kick to LT if they draft a RT. Very few teams have this luxury.

Bottom line, Amukamara/Carimi to me has more value than a Solder/Dowling combo. The drop off between the CBs is pretty big, whereas Solder may have high upside, but low floor, whereas Carimi has high floor/decent upside.

bottom line is the value of the fresh prince and carimi v. solder, dowling and the saints no.1 next yr. though option a is intriguiging, i prefer option b.

 

[supafly]

I don't get it. If you're gonna take Ras-I with the 33rd pick, why not just take the Prince @ 17 instead of Solder. Then take Gabe Carimi at 28 instead of trading out. Then you'd have Amukamara/Carimi instead of Dowling/Solder. Might not have Saints 2012 1st rd pick, but for all intents and purposes that pick is really a 2nd rd pick as it will be 26 or later.

This is easy to answer actually. If you watched the draft special, (posted on the main forum today) they showed Belichick breaking each pick down-- separately of course. He doesn't go into the draft thinking of drafting different combinations of players, for ex: the one you would've rather had in Amukamara and Carimi. He did not 'plan' on taking the combo of Solder and Dowling. If you watch as they break it down, he was actually fielding phone calls for the high majority of the time with the #33rd pick. He talked to multiple teams about the possibility of a trade, but was asking to swap spots this yr in the 2nd AND for a 2012 2nd rounder. When no one met his trade demands (they show him hanging up the phone multiple times at #33), the Patriots simply took the player who they had rated as highest at the time--or at least the player that they all agreed on in Dowling.

In other words, they had no idea if they'd trade #33 or not when they picked Solder at #17--therefore, they could not predict taking a OL/CB combo, as you say.

Otherwise, if they could've predicted that, they may have taken the combo you would have wanted, although I still seriously doubt it to be honest.

Carimi is nowhere as good as Solder, and for all we know Dowling may end up being just as good as Amukamara, if not better.

 

[TealSox]

Keep in mind, the Patriots would had preferred to trade the 33rd pick for a future 2nd round pick and moving back in the first round. In that scenario, there would be no combo of Solder and Dowling to measure against the combo of Carimi and Amukamara.

 

[supafly]

Keep in mind, the Patriots would had preferred to trade the 33rd pick for a future 2nd round pick and moving back in the first round. In that scenario, there would be no combo of Solder and Dowling to measure against the combo of Carimi and Amukamara.

You mean moving back in the 2nd round, and an additional 2nd rounder for 2012?? That's what the video showed them trying to do--they wanted to swap places with the trading team in the 2nd, + pick up an additional 2012 2nd for doing so.

I can't see how they'd have traded the pick at 33 (day two) on the first day, especially with having 17 and 28. How could they have moved back in the first round on day two? Or do you mean they'd have preferred to package it with something else on day one?

Of course, it is 4:40 am, and I may be missing the point entirely--which certainly wouldn't be a first

 

[patchick]

Bottom line, Amukamara/Carimi to me has more value than a Solder/Dowling combo. The drop off between the CBs is pretty big, whereas Solder may have high upside, but low floor, whereas Carimi has high floor/decent upside.

First of all, it's pure hindsight that Carimi was available at #28, most mocks had him going higher. (Gosselin's last mock said KC at #26; Seattle shocked everybody by taking Carpenter over Crimini at #25.)

Beyond that, though, I don't see how Carimi is any kind of swap for Solder given that they play different positions. Solder is a pure LT, Carimi is a pure RT. Which position is more expensive and harder to fill?

So even assuming you could count on Carimi at #28, the choice was:

1. Amukamara + Right Tackle + 2010 #33
v.
2. Left Tackle + Dowling + Shane Vereen + 2012 1st-round pick

Amukamara has to be vastly better than Dowling to tilt the balance toward B.

 

[Lamanai]

For what it is worth, in his ESPN pre-Draft special, Bill Parcells had some unfavorable things to say about Prince Amukamara. He was mentioned among the players Parcells thought would drop. Short arms, tendency to bump/grab his man, etc...I got the sense he'd pass on that player.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

First of all, it's pure hindsight that Carimi was available at #28, most mocks had him going higher. (Gosselin's last mock said KC at #26; Seattle shocked everybody by taking Carpenter over Crimini at #25.)

Beyond that, though, I don't see how Carimi is any kind of swap for Solder given that they play different positions. Solder is a pure LT, Carimi is a pure RT. Which position is more expensive and harder to fill?

So even assuming you could count on Carimi at #28, the choice was:

1. Amukamara + Right Tackle + 2010 #33
v.
2. Left Tackle + Dowling + Shane Vereen + 2012 1st-round pick

Amukamara has to be vastly better than Dowling to tilt the balance toward B.

patchick—this post made my brain hurt.

 

[patchick]

patchick—this post made my brain hurt.

Wrongness is painful for sure. Sorry, let's try that again:


1. Amukamara + Right Tackle + 2011 #33
v.
2. Left Tackle + Dowling + Shane Vereen* + 2012 1st-round pick

Amukamara has to be vastly better than Dowling to tilt the balance toward 2.


(*In a lot of discussions of pick 28 people talk about the future Saints' pick and forget Vereen, who is not chopped liver.)

 

[SirApropos]

(*In a lot of discussions of pick 28 people talk about the future Saints' pick and forget Vereen, who is not chopped liver.)

Agreed. I think they got the RB they always intended to get in Vareen (at #60) and fleeced the Saints out of a 2012 1st rounder.

 

[SanAngeloState]

I hope dowling can stay healthy, is all I'm worried about. Amukamara has short arms, small hands and a stocky build...not working for me. Blackmon abused him pretty badly in a game when he was one on one.

 

[TealSox]

You mean moving back in the 2nd round, and an additional 2nd rounder for 2012?? That's what the video showed them trying to do--they wanted to swap places with the trading team in the 2nd, + pick up an additional 2012 2nd for doing so.

I can't see how they'd have traded the pick at 33 (day two) on the first day, especially with having 17 and 28. How could they have moved back in the first round on day two? Or do you mean they'd have preferred to package it with something else on day one?

Of course, it is 4:40 am, and I may be missing the point entirely--which certainly wouldn't be a first

My mistake... I meant say swapping the 33rd pick for another teams 2011 2nd round pick in addition to a 2nd round pick in 2012.