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The 2011 Draft ~ Random Observations


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Excellent evaluations and I could spend a long time pointing out areas of agreement, but you don't need people patting you on the back for obvious reasons.

On the contrary, I'll take all the praise I can GET!! :D

Just kidding. But thanks for the kind words, Bro. :cool:

1. Autrocious was my intial reaction to picking Mallet. I was really against picking any QB before round 7. BUT the more I think on it the more I am warming up to it for the following reasons.

a. On a pure talent/value basis it might have been the easiest pick BB had all night.

b. I think, although he isn't going to effect the team in any way on the field for the next 2 years, the long term flexibility of the pick could make it worth it for a couple of reasons.

c. Mallet wound up in the absolute best situation he could have. He has the luxury of learning from a coaching staff that made NFL QBs out of the likes of Matt Cassell and Bryan Hoyer. Plus he has the advantage of sitting for a couple of years without the pressure of carrying a team. PLUS when he does get a chance to play it will be on for a team with very good offense around him.

d. NOW the Pats have a legitimate franchise QB talent without having to spend the draft capitol one normally associates with the acquisition of getting one.

e. When he came in for his visit, clearly BB didn't see the entitled, surly, uncooperative personality that was reported about endlessly this off season. So on the "character" issue I have to side with BB's assessment. He doesn't suffer fools.

f. Now if Brady decides he wants to end his career on the westcoast as the face of the new LA franchise, the Pats will be the position to replace him and accept the boatload of picks that kind of trade would engender, knowing they had an acceptable replacement ready.

g. The Pats can trade him at anytime over the next 4 years, for anything from a 3rd to a first and get some value from the deal.

h. And for the first time the Pats have a better alternative if lightning DOES strike twice and Brady gets hurt.

I'm not really knowledgeable about who was available when the Pats did pick Mallet, but Im doubting that it would have been a player who would have been any more likely to impact the near future of the Pats any more than Mallet

TREMENDOUS Arguments in Mallett's favor!!

I still hate the Pick, and would MUCH rather have invested in Ricky Stanzi or Greg McElroy ~ or both!! ~ but I can certainly see the potential for it coming out all right. He's a student of the game, and that, for one, goes a long way with me. Well argued, sir. :cool:

2. I think you contradict yourself on the issue of the lack of a DE pick in the draft. First you complain about it, and then you list the skill and depth that the Pats already have at the positiion.. Despite not picking a DE the Pats will have the deepest, and most talented DL line up they've had for the last 3 years. One that should excell at stopping the run and be better (how could they not be) at rushing the passer

I think you underestimate the return of a healthy Ty Warren, since we haven't really seen him be healthy for the last 3 seasons. I'm also taking the right to infer that one of the reasons BB didn't draft a DE because he feels Mike Wright IS going to be healthy this season. And he was a guy to had 5.5 sacks in 7 games, which BTW is pretty good, and goes widely unreported or appreciated.

Looking back at it, BB MIGHT have taken Watt if he were available, but the more I think about it, the odds are he was targetting Solder all along and got the guy he wanted.

Speaking of Solder I'm surprised at all the talk about his supposed lack of strength, and how he won't be a great run blocker. Guys he's 20 pounds heavier than Light RIGHT now, AND has much quicker feet. How does that NOT translate into a more powerful run blocker. And that is NOW, how much better will it be when he's 335 with under 10% body fat in a couple of years

This will go down as one of BB's best picks ever and its easy to trust BB when you consider his past picks on the OL

Ah! No contradiction, but I'm afraid I wasn't clear enough, and I thank you for pointing that out.

Ironically, I actually addressed this in the post I was forging, concurrent with yours.

In a word: I think we are FAR ahead of where we were a year ago, in terms of Depth of Talent.

But I am NOT satisfied with where we are: There's no reason at ALL that we couldn't've drafted a couple of potential Super Stars like Justin Watt + Kenrick Ellis, and bumped the bottom of the Depth Chart ~ Deaderick + Wright, perhaps ~ off the bottom of the roster. Depth of Talent. Depth of Talent. Depth of Talent. It's Coach B's Achilles Heal.


3.On the OLB we agree. I think Cunningham had a very remarkable rookie season, especially when you consider, as you said, the difficulty of playing the position, and the fact he missed most of training camp. Regardless of the results, he definitely showed some exciting flashes of the skills we all hope for in a OLB, and because he got all those snaps, his progression was accellerated vastly. Although I doubt you will see a finished product this season, but it WILL be greatly improved.

I also agree that Ninko is being unjustly downgraded. While he has been in the league 6 years, his functional playing time has been really limited. I thought he did a really good job given the low expectations we had. He showed some surprising coverage abilities, and riushed the passer actually better than I expected . Don't forget that Vrabel had more years with 4 or 5 sacks than he did with 12. Its the nature of the system

Add TBC as a situational rusher (although an over paid one), and the surprising Moore, OLB, while still a weakness, isn't really the black hole some represent it to be.

Of course all that being said, adding a Kiwanuka or Lawson wouldn't hurt. ;)

Concur, sir!! :D

4. I'm coming to grips with getting TWO RBs that early. Clearly BB is gearing up the Rats to become able to produce a "clock killin' " aspect to their offense. I also love the comparisons of Vereen to Ray Rice. I hope they are true.

Yes, their sizes are different, but their shared cerebral excellence does, indeed, make Ray Rice and Shane Vereen somewhat similar.

The main point, of course, being that Shane Vereen is going to be spectacular.

5. I love the Smith pick too. Adding a guy with THAT particular skill set is critical to the overall effectiveness of the TE position. I believe the Pats are looking for 3 skill sets. One elite bocker (check) One elite move TE ie Dallas Clark type (check) One all round guy (double check) Although it might be a year too soon for him, better a year too soon than not at all. This is probably Alge's last season, so who better to mentor another critical factor to the Pats offense. His special teams skills will offset the burden of carrying 4 TEs on the roster.

Its ikind of funny how one's intial reaction to a pick can change when you actually find out about the individual's specific skill set and how it fits into the greater team profile. So your reaction can go from "Why another TE :mad:, to....."cool pick, I get it now" Also another reason to be glad that "WE" aren't doing the picking.

Hah!! There, I'll have to respectfully disagree!!

We'd be working on perhaps our NINTH straight Super Bowl win if I'D been picking the groceries!! :D

BTW- thanks for the read, you know that I always appreciate a post that takes two posts to get on the board. ;)

Same here, Bro!! GREAT post!! :rocker:
 
I started looking at next years prospects at OLB and DE, and suddenly thought why bother, none of them will fit the scheme.

It's not that, I think it's the fact that Bill simply doesn't think OLB is worth the effort of a first round pick. There were some tremendous fits this year - Smith and Quinn were everything we value and more - but BB obviously is not a believer in the position being worth first round value.

Which is a huge shame.

I look at Quinton Coples next year and have a hard on already - but we'll never draft him.

I couldn't agree more.

We could've had Matthias Kiwanuka and Justin Tuck years ago...among others.
 
The rest of this forum can be on the DE/OLB bandwagon, but even more than that, I want an elite CENTER next year. With Mike Brewster and possibly Peter Konz, next year is the perfect year to be looking for a center in the mid to late first round. Assuming (and crossing my fingers) that Mankins is resigned, the line of Gronkowski, Solder, Mankins, Brewster, Cannon, Vollmer, Smith would be hell and then some to defend.
 
I couldn't agree more.

We could've had Matthias Kiwanuka and Justin Tuck years ago...among others.

you know in the frustration shown in this remark you have articulated exactly why BB hesitates to invest his high end draft capital in DE/OLB projects, because they are just that......projects. Why invest in training a quality OLB in the mysterious ways of the Pats defense, only to get a year or two of quality production before the player reaches the end of his rookie contract.

Isn't it better to let some other team spend the draft capital, time, and energy to coach the player into some semblance of competence, and THEN pick him up when the learning curve is MUCH shorter. You might pay a bit more, but there is less risk of failure and more years of productive play.

The bust rate on Tweener college DE's is enormous. Neither Kiwanuka OR Lawson were very productive their first 2 seasons, and both have only been marginally better as the years have gone on. They are going to be FAs because they have underperformed their potential or their team has acquired someone they deem as better.

Yet this is PRECISELY why they are valuable to the Pats. Who knows better the time it takes to "get it" as a Pats OLB. BB has the advantage of seeing game tape of them in action against NFL caliber competition. The Chances of success in THIS environment are much greater than for a player coming out of college. Kind of makes all those Connor Barwin fans have hope that in the future they can STILL see him playing for the Pats. in a few years ;)

And while we keep mentioning Kiwanuka and Lawson, who knows who BB has targeted. No one knew who Mike Varbel was his first year. He was just another no name FA BB had picked up that season.
 
The rest of this forum can be on the DE/OLB bandwagon, but even more than that, I want an elite CENTER next year. With Mike Brewster and possibly Peter Konz, next year is the perfect year to be looking for a center in the mid to late first round.

Assuming (and crossing my fingers) that Mankins is resigned, the line of Gronkowski, Solder, Mankins, Brewster, Cannon, Vollmer, Smith would be hell and then some to defend.

Couldn't agree more.

Center has been my #1 2012 priority for a long time, now.

Ever since we passed on The Marquis de Pouncey, to be exact.

Elite Caliber Centers are very hard to come by.

And, God knows, there were none even remotely resembling that, this year.

I'm a BIG fan of Mike Brewster and Peter Konz, needless to say.

And should that Rolling Wall of Death actually come together...good GOD. :cool:
 
Couldn't agree more.

Center has been my #1 2012 priority for a long time, now.

Ever since we passed on The Marquis de Pouncey, to be exact.

Elite Caliber Centers are very hard to come by.

And, God knows, there were none even remotely resembling that, this year.

I'm a BIG fan of Mike Brewster and Peter Konz, needless to say.

And should that Rolling Wall of Death actually come together...good GOD. :cool:
The rolling wall of death :rofl: Most Excellent brother Grid :rocker:
 
I think it's the fact that Bill simply doesn't think OLB is worth the effort of a first round pick. There were some tremendous fits this year - Smith and Quinn were everything we value and more - but BB obviously is not a believer in the position being worth first round value.

Which is a huge shame.


I look at Quinton Coples next year and have a hard on already - but we'll never draft him.

I couldn't agree more.

We could've had Matthias Kiwanuka and Justin Tuck years ago...among others.

You know in the frustration shown in this remark you have articulated exactly why BB hesitates to invest his high end draft capital in DE/OLB projects, because they are just that......projects. Why invest in training a quality OLB in the mysterious ways of the Pats defense, only to get a year or two of quality production before the player reaches the end of his rookie contract.

Isn't it better to let some other team spend the draft capital, time, and energy to coach the player into some semblance of competence, and THEN pick him up when the learning curve is MUCH shorter. You might pay a bit more, but there is less risk of failure and more years of productive play.

The bust rate on Tweener college DE's is enormous. Neither Kiwanuka OR Lawson were very productive their first 2 seasons, and both have only been marginally better as the years have gone on. They are going to be FAs because they have underperformed their potential or their team has acquired someone they deem as better.

Yet this is PRECISELY why they are valuable to the Pats. Who knows better the time it takes to "get it" as a Pats OLB. BB has the advantage of seeing game tape of them in action against NFL caliber competition. The Chances of success in THIS environment are much greater than for a player coming out of college. Kind of makes all those Connor Barwin fans have hope that in the future they can STILL see him playing for the Pats. in a few years ;)

And while we keep mentioning Kiwanuka and Lawson, who knows who BB has targeted. No one knew who Mike Varbel was his first year. He was just another no name FA BB had picked up that season.

Exquisitely argued, Brother Ken!! :rocker:

One problem, though: Coach Bill actually has to sign the guys!! :bricks:

Those guys have become very scarce on the Free Agency Market, my friend.

We just went 3 straight years with awful Depth of Talent at Flanker.

He would've been far better off, in my view, by drafting these guys a couple years ahead of time, and keeping the pipe line rolling. :cool:

THAT way, we'd not only be developing our next starters, but we'd also have tremendous Depth of Talent, and young kids with FirePower who could jump in on Sub Packs: Mathias Kiwanuka and Justin Tuck could've lined up on our side of the field, in Super Bowl 42.
 
Food for thought:

The consensus best DE prospect for the Pats was Marcell Dareus, but everyone knew he was out of reach.

Brandon Deaderick actually started OVER Dareus when they were both at Alabama.

Now, I am not saying Deaderick is a better NFL prospect than Dareus and obviously he has some issues that caused him to slip to the 7th round and be suspended this year, but maybe BB didn't see as big of a difference in Deaderick, a starter on a Nick Saban coached national championship team, then in Jordan, Heyward or Wilkerson, etc?

I don't know, just something to think about.
 
Couldn't agree more.

Center has been my #1 2012 priority for a long time, now.

Ever since we passed on The Marquis de Pouncey, to be exact.

Elite Caliber Centers are very hard to come by.

And, God knows, there were none even remotely resembling that, this year.

I'm a BIG fan of Mike Brewster and Peter Konz, needless to say.

And should that Rolling Wall of Death actually come together...good GOD. :cool:

Umm.. The Pats never had a chance to draft Pouncey. At least not Maurkice. He went off the board to the Steelers last year before the Pats even had their first pick.


On a separate note, do you think that Konz will leave early and enter next year's draft?
 
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Couldn't agree more.

Center has been my #1 2012 priority for a long time, now.

Ever since we passed on The Marquis de Pouncey, to be exact.

Elite Caliber Centers are very hard to come by.

And, God knows, there were none even remotely resembling that, this year.

I'm a BIG fan of Mike Brewster and Peter Konz, needless to say.

And should that Rolling Wall of Death actually come together...good GOD. :cool:

Umm.. The Pats never had a chance to draft Pouncey. At least not Maurkice. He went off the board to the Steelers last year before the Pats even had their first pick.

C'mon, Bro!!

You must know that a Draft Geek like myself is fully aware that he went several spots ahead of us. I wasn't using the narrow definition of "passed", but the broader version, as in: passed on the opportunity, you see.

I consider O Center an EXTREMELY high priority, and would've done whatever it took ~ within reason ~ to get that guy, rather than wait two years...Or possibly three, if Brewster doesn't look good in April:


On a separate note, do you think that Konz will leave early and enter next year's draft?

Well, to be honest with you: No.

I am madly in love with that BEASTLY Wisconsin team and their Mashing GRIZZLIES.

And it seems that they truly have something special going on there, on that O Line: A True Camaraderie. One that makes them inclined to complete their entire stay:

~ Gabe Carimi
~ John Moffitt
~ Bill Nagy
~ Josh Oglesby
~ Lance Kendricks


The LOT of them chose to play out their Senior year. :eek:

Obviously, I don't know Peter Konz, personally, but there is clearly some intense bonding going on over there, so I would have to call the chances of Konz coming out early distant, I'm very sorry to say.
 
I consider O Center an EXTREMELY high priority, and would've done whatever it took ~ within reason ~ to get that guy, rather than wait two years...Or possibly three, if Brewster doesn't look good in April:




Well, to be honest with you: No.

I am madly in love with that BEASTLY Wisconsin team and their Mashing GRIZZLIES.

And it seems that they truly have something special going on there, on that O Line: A True Camaraderie. One that makes them inclined to complete their entire stay:

~ Gabe Carimi
~ John Moffitt
~ Bill Nagy
~ Josh Oglesby
~ Lance Kendricks


The LOT of them chose to play out their Senior year. :eek:

Obviously, I don't know Peter Konz, personally, but there is clearly some intense bonding going on over there, so I would have to call the chances of Konz coming out early distant, I'm very sorry to say.


You forgot Kevin Zeitler - G for Wisconsin.
 
1. Autrocious was my intial reaction to picking Mallet. I was really against picking any QB before round 7. BUT the more I think on it the more I am warming up to it for the following reasons.

One more reason I'd add to your list. We also don't have to play against Mallet this year. He has arguably the best arm in the draft and could easily have landed in our division.

Instead of gaining Mallet, the Dolphins have the same QB issues they had last year, making them easy prey. And the Jets with Sanchez/McElroy aren't particularly awe inspiring. Fitzpatrick/Brown may have the beard power but they don't exactly strike fear. If any of these teams had gained Mallet they might have had actual QB potential in the years to come. Instead they can look forward to another year of jealously lashing out at Tommy because they haven't a good QB among them.

Additionally, I'm glad we have some control over where Mallet eventually lands. We can keep him or place him with the team of our choosing. I can just see BB at his desk in a darkened room rubbing his hands together like Mr. Burns from the Simpsons as things all go "according to plan".
 
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You forgot Kevin Zeitler - G for Wisconsin.

And then there's Rob Havenstein - 6'8"/350 last year. As a freshman (must have been a redshirt).
 
And then there's Rob Havenstein - 6'8"/350 last year. As a freshman (must have been a redshirt).

Why would you want a guy that tall? They have a higher center of gravity and it's tougher for the QB to see over them and survey the field.
 
Why would you want a guy that tall? They have a higher center of gravity and it's tougher for the QB to see over them and survey the field.

Not saying that I'd WANT him. Just pointing out the guy's size at such a young age. Speaking of "gravity", if the guy continues to grow, he might have his own gravitational field by the time he graduates. And, if he's really smart, he could major in astrophysics and become the subject of his own thesis.

:rolleyes:
 
Not saying that I'd WANT him. Just pointing out the guy's size at such a young age. Speaking of "gravity", if the guy continues to grow, he might have his own gravitational field by the time he graduates. And, if he's really smart, he could major in astrophysics and become the subject of his own thesis.

:rolleyes:

That gravitational field might get in the way of snapping the football, he might make an interesting FB though:)
 
That gravitational field might get in the way of snapping the football, he might make an interesting FB though:)

Actually, now that you mention it, his gravitational field could have as much down side as upside. On the one hand, edge rushers might have difficulty achieving escape velocity once in his orbit. OTOH, so might our RBs. And attempting to throw a pass to his side could result in a lot of unintentional curve balls, not to mention "ineligible receiver" flags thrown his way (which might end up sticking to him).

Okay. I've now officially exhausted my ridiculousness for the evening.

:p
 
Why would you want a guy that tall? They have a higher center of gravity and it's tougher for the QB to see over them and survey the field.

Do you have a problem with the Pats adding Solder and Vollmer who are 6'08 1/2" and 6'07 5/8" respectively???

Now, Havenstein played guard, so that COULD be an issue, but it might not be..Havenstein could be an OT by the time he graduates (2014).. Only time will tell.

I mentioned Zeitler because he's a senior next year.
 
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