It's about the ILB's

[37Harrison]

Team Stat Comparison NYJ NE
1st Downs 14 26
Passing 1st downs 8 19
Rushing 1st downs 5 6
1st downs from Penalties 1 1
3rd down efficiency 6-13 5-14
4th down efficiency 0-0 0-2
Total Plays 54 78
Total Yards 314 372
Passing 194 259
Comp-Att 16-25 29-45
Yards per pass 7.8 5.8
Rushing 120 113
Rushing Attempts 29 28
Yards per rush 4.1 4.0
Red Zone (Made-Att) 4-5 2-4
Penalties 3-35 6-44
Turnovers 0 1
Fumbles lost 0 0
Interceptions thrown 0 1
Defensive / Special Teams TDs 0 0
Possession 25:04 34:56

What's your point?

 

[Deus Irae]

Mayo/Spikes was fine against the run.

 

[patsoxfan]

Team Stat Comparison NYJ NE
1st Downs 14 26
Passing 1st downs 8 19
Rushing 1st downs 5 6
1st downs from Penalties 1 1
3rd down efficiency 6-13 5-14
4th down efficiency 0-0 0-2
Total Plays 54 78
Total Yards 314 372
Passing 194 259
Comp-Att 16-25 29-45
Yards per pass 7.8 5.8
Rushing 120 113
Rushing Attempts 29 28
Yards per rush 4.1 4.0
Red Zone (Made-Att) 4-5 2-4
Penalties 3-35 6-44
Turnovers 0 1
Fumbles lost 0 0
Interceptions thrown 0 1
Defensive / Special Teams TDs 0 0
Possession 25:04 34:56

What about sacks and QB pressures?

 

[patsoxfan]

So after reading thread upon thread, post upon post about the lack of the pass rush from the Pats D and how they can't win a SB without this I got to thinking... Is that really the thing on their D that is keeping the Pats from another title?

I say no... hear me out.

I think it's safe to say that everyone sees the SB winning years as the Pats having a significantly better D than they do now (save 2001 maybe). Well let's look at that:
2001 - Rushing D #19, Pass D #24, Total D #24
2003 - Rushing D #4, Pass D #15, Total D #7
2004 - Rushing D #6, Pass D #17, Total D #9
2010 - Rushing D #11, Pass D #30, Total D #25

So you see, 2010 was on par with 2001 but the "dominant" Pats D's had a top 6 ranking against the run. The Steeler's who also have been consistently good also consistenly have a top ranked run D, as well as GB this past year, the Jets recently and even the Colts morphed into a run stopping monster in the playoffs the year they won.

So what happened after 2004? Well the Pats lost their best run stuffer when TJ retired, then Tedy suffered a stroke and was never the same. They never found players that could do what those two did... Beisel, Chad Brown, Pierre Woods, Matt Chatham, Corey Mays, etc., these were they guys brought/thrust in to play the middle.

The main stays at OLB (McGinest, Vrable) remained the same and continued to play after '04.

My point is, the Pats now have two very good ILB's to anchor that D with Mayo and Spikes. The Pats pressure is generated by stuffing the run and making the other teams throw. Also, letting the OLB's go after the QB when he has confidence that the insidBB probably feels more comfortable e LB's will be able to shut the run down. So I say, it isn't about the pass rush but more about the ILB's stuffing the run and making the opposition one dimensional allowing for more turnover's, sacks, and three and outs.

Not to mention these past D's were experienced and knew exactly where they needed to be and capitalized on every opportunity/mistake made by the other team. I feel this years team gained valuable experience and will make a significant leap forward this year and this pass rushing freakout will be long forgotten.

In this defense the job of one of the OLB is to go after the QB. I dont believe the OLB doesnt rush because Bill says its not prudent because the ILBs are soft. And dont believe that " the pats pressure is generated by stuffing the run" teams throw because they can not because they cant run. you said yourself the D was 30th against the pass. This team could not get off the field on 3rd down because QBs can stand around and scan the field after they have a coffee and some danish.

 

[37Harrison]

In this defense the job of one of the OLB is to go after the QB. I dont believe the OLB doesnt rush because Bill says its not prudent because the ILBs are soft. And dont believe that " the pats pressure is generated by stuffing the run" teams throw because they can not because they cant run. you said yourself the D was 30th against the pass. This team could not get off the field on 3rd down because QBs can stand around and scan the field after they have a coffee and some danish.

Yeah and I also said to look at the losses and tell me what the link is between them? That would be the fact that the other team was able to run on the Pats. There is only 1 or 2 games when the Pats won where BJGE wasn't the leading rusher in the game.

When the other team had a leading rusher... Jets week 2 Ldt 76 yds with a 6.something avg. Cleve week 9 Hillis 184 yds rushing... the only other games they lost the rushing battle was against Balt and GB, both games they were fortunate to win.

The shoot out games through the air when the opposing QB had all day to (as you put it "have coffee and some danish") they won every one. Read that again... every game

Wk 1 vs Cinci Palmer 345 yds passing -WIN
Wk 4 vs Mia Henne 305 yds passing -WIN
Wk 7 in SD Rivers 336 yds passing -WIN
Wk 10 vs Pitt Roeth 387 yds passing -WIN
Wk 11 vs Ind Manning 396 yds passing -WIN

So again, it's not about the pass rush by the rushing battle. If the Pats lose the rushing battle they usually lost the game.

Yes looking soley at the ILB's is a very simplistic way to look at rush D but that is the heart of this D. If it's gouged they bleed out.

 

[randomk1]

Yeah and I also said to look at the losses and tell me what the link is between them? That would be the fact that the other team was able to run on the Pats. There is only 1 or 2 games when the Pats won where BJGE wasn't the leading rusher in the game.

When the other team had a leading rusher... Jets week 2 Ldt 76 yds with a 6.something avg. Cleve week 9 Hillis 184 yds rushing... the only other games they lost the rushing battle was against Balt and GB, both games they were fortunate to win.

The shoot out games through the air when the opposing QB had all day to (as you put it "have coffee and some danish") they won every one. Read that again... every game

Wk 1 vs Cinci Palmer 345 yds passing -WIN
Wk 4 vs Mia Henne 305 yds passing -WIN
Wk 7 in SD Rivers 336 yds passing -WIN
Wk 10 vs Pitt Roeth 387 yds passing -WIN
Wk 11 vs Ind Manning 396 yds passing -WIN

So again, it's not about the pass rush by the rushing battle. If the Pats lose the rushing battle they usually lost the game.

Yes looking soley at the ILB's is a very simplistic way to look at rush D but that is the heart of this D. If it's gouged they bleed out.

All of those games came down to the last minute and involved some luck or big ST plays.

Our defense sucked plain and simple. " They couldn't stop a nosebleed " as one Jets player noted.

They might improve with experience and Bodden,Warren returning but we're still gonna need the O clicking on all cylinders if we hope to win in the playoffs.

 

[Ring 6]

All of those games came down to the last minute and involved some luck or big ST plays.

No 3 of the 5 were blowouts and the other team padded stats against the prevent. In the other 2 the defense held at the end.

Our defense sucked plain and simple. " They couldn't stop a nosebleed " as one Jets player noted.

Defenses that are 29th in point allowed suck plain and simple.
Defenses that are 8th best and improve to #2 over the 2nd half of the defense do not.

They might improve with experience and Bodden,Warren returning but we're still gonna need the O clicking on all cylinders if we hope to win in the playoffs.

Almost the entire defense has been turned over in 2-3 seasons. Last year was the growing pains. The end result will be a dominant defense, just like the one that needed to be rebuilt because age and the cap couldn't let it be kept together. If you don't recognize that direction you havent been paying attention.

 

[E Belichick Unum]

What about sacks and QB pressures?

0 sacks, 0 knock downs. ZERO, ZERO and gave up big play after big play when the game was on the line.

A monster OLB is all that is needed for a Super Bowl run.

 

[37Harrison]

All of those games came down to the last minute and involved some luck or big ST plays.

Not the point... the point was that they won those types of games and lost the games in which they couldn't stop the run.

It's simple really... get into a shoot out with the Pats = you lose.
Run against the Pats and don't allow TFB the opportunity to get on the field = higher chance of winning. It's pretty much the same as playing the Colts except they have 2 veruygood/elite pass rushers and how SB's have they won?

 

[Deus Irae]

Not the point... the point was that they won those types of games and lost the games in which they couldn't stop the run.

It's simple really... get into a shoot out with the Pats = you lose.
Run against the Pats and don't allow TFB the opportunity to get on the field = higher chance of winning. It's pretty much the same as playing the Colts except they have 2 veruygood/elite pass rushers and how SB's have they won?

The problem is that you're making the assumption that this rests on the ILBs. It doesn't. The run defense trio of Wilfork/Mayo/Spikes is very solid. The problem comes when you run at the edges of the defense, when the Patriots shift Wilfork off the nose, and when teams run against the sub packages.

 

[randomk1]

Defenses that are 29th in point allowed suck plain and simple.
Defenses that are 8th best and improve to #2 over the 2nd half of the defense do not.


Almost the entire defense has been turned over in 2-3 seasons. Last year was the growing pains. The end result will be a dominant defense, just like the one that needed to be rebuilt because age and the cap couldn't let it be kept together. If you don't recognize that direction you havent been paying attention.

Forgive my skepticism but i don't buy into that big improvement. They made some strides over the course of the season and looked more bearable but when it mattered they did not provide the plays or the stops or made uncharacteristic mistakes. They will improve,no doubt. But they will still be a middle of the pack defense. If Brady pulls another choke job we will not be able to rely on this D to win the game for us.

As for the big improvement in stats: Brady and the O going on a historic streak helps out alot.Bears and Jay Cutler in ****ty snow weather=automatic win,Miami and Bills suck offensively, Jets collapse and then there is Matt Flynn and the Packers almost beating us at home in the middle of that stretch.

 

[patsoxfan]

Yeah and I also said to look at the losses and tell me what the link is between them? That would be the fact that the other team was able to run on the Pats. There is only 1 or 2 games when the Pats won where BJGE wasn't the leading rusher in the game.

When the other team had a leading rusher... Jets week 2 Ldt 76 yds with a 6.something avg. Cleve week 9 Hillis 184 yds rushing... the only other games they lost the rushing battle was against Balt and GB, both games they were fortunate to win.

The shoot out games through the air when the opposing QB had all day to (as you put it "have coffee and some danish") they won every one. Read that again... every game

Wk 1 vs Cinci Palmer 345 yds passing -WIN
Wk 4 vs Mia Henne 305 yds passing -WIN
Wk 7 in SD Rivers 336 yds passing -WIN
Wk 10 vs Pitt Roeth 387 yds passing -WIN
Wk 11 vs Ind Manning 396 yds passing -WIN

So again, it's not about the pass rush by the rushing battle. If the Pats lose the rushing battle they usually lost the game.

Yes looking soley at the ILB's is a very simplistic way to look at rush D but that is the heart of this D. If it's gouged they bleed out.

Not getting off the field on 3rd down is not about rush defense. Too much time to throw is. The bottom line is this team was th worst at getting off the field on 3rd down, plain and simple.

 

[Ring 6]

Forgive my skepticism but i don't buy into that big improvement. They made some strides over the course of the season and looked more bearable but when it mattered they did not provide the plays or the stops or made uncharacteristic mistakes. They will improve,no doubt. But they will still be a middle of the pack defense. If Brady pulls another choke job we will not be able to rely on this D to win the game for us.

You embarass yourself with comments like that.

As for the big improvement in stats: Brady and the O going on a historic streak helps out alot.Bears and Jay Cutler in ****ty snow weather=automatic win,Miami and Bills suck offensively, Jets collapse and then there is Matt Flynn and the Packers almost beating us at home in the middle of that stretch.

Those were the games we played. Would you prefer to rate the team on all of the yards piled up in prevent defense after we had game well in hand, as happened early in the season?

 

[randomk1]

You embarass yourself with comments like that.

That's the truth ain't it. Brady plays a bad game,we lose. None of those big improvements and stats that you're talking about showed up for that game.

Brady can't play like Roethlisberger,Sanchez or even Aaron Rodgers. It's a luxury to have a bad game and still win in the playoffs.