Cunningham, Banta-Cain, Ninkovich, Moore

[mgteich]

Presuming a 2009 level salary cap, I don't think anyone is saying that Belichick shouldn't consider OLB's in the $5M -$6M range. Belichick has done in acquiring Colvin and Thomas. With regard to lower level OLB's from other teams, we already have Ninkovich, Moore and Murrell.

I guess I don't understand all the fuss. If we brought in an OLB, it is likely that no one would be cut but Murrell. We usually carry five OLB's. We have 5. We are looking for an upgrade.

For me Banta-Cain and Ninkovich are fine special teamers and decent role-playing backup OLB's. There is nothing wrong with having players like this on the team. And yes, Banta-Cain is being paid as the starter than he has been. Belichick has budgets for all units. It will not break the budget to sign a top OLB as an upgrade to Murrell.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'm not so sure about that. He's 27 and here are his last three years of stats.
Year Team Games Tks Sacks int PD
2007-08 Miami 4 2 0.0 0 0
2009-10 New England 15 23 1.0 0 2
2010-11 New England 16 61 4.0 2 3

That all compares very closely to Vrabel and Bruschi. Not saying he gets to that level, but to say he's topped out and can't reach that level is a bit premature. If he keeps trending in the right direction, he's well above average. This year should tell us if he's for real or not.

I would want nothing more than Nink to evolve into the next Vrabes

 

[TheComeback]

Presuming a 2009 level salary cap, I don't think anyone is saying that Belichick shouldn't consider OLB's in the $5M -$6M range. Belichick has done in acquiring Colvin and Thomas. With regard to lower level OLB's from other teams, we already have Ninkovich, Moore and Murrell.

I guess I don't understand all the fuss. If we brought in an OLB, it is likely that no one would be cut but Murrell. We usually carry five OLB's. We have 5. We are looking for an upgrade.

For me Banta-Cain and Ninkovich are fine special teamers and decent role-playing backup OLB's. There is nothing wrong with having players like this on the team. And yes, Banta-Cain is being paid as the starter than he has been. Belichick has budgets for all units. It will not break the budget to sign a top OLB as an upgrade to Murrell.

I think a mid-level OLB prospect couldn't hurt. It's just more competition for the other guys on the roster. OTOH, they already have plenty of competition at OLB. I'd pull the trigger on a guy if he seemed like a legit fit, and had a real chance to make a difference on the team. I don't know of anyone coming out in FA who fits that profile.

We also shouldn't write off Markell Carter. If we don't sign an OLB during FA, it's because BB thinks Carter can provide the same level of competition as a veteran. Carter would also be a lot cheaper than a free agent.

In addition, Carter does have potential. Even though he played in sub-par conference, he was the best player on UCA's defense and probably projects as a solid backup at some point, like a Pierre Woods but with more upside.

I can't say I'm 100% satisfied with this OLB group. I think you'd be crazy to say that. But there's a lot of potential for growth this year. If a few guys can take the next step, especially Cunningham and Ninko (who has progressively gotten better each year with us), this position might end up being very solid for us.

 

[mgteich]

With a shortened camp, I see almost no chance of Carter beating out Murrell. Carter will be very safe on the Practice Squad.

QUOTE=TheComeback;2542554]I think a mid-level OLB prospect couldn't hurt. It's just more competition for the other guys on the roster. OTOH, they already have plenty of competition at OLB. I'd pull the trigger on a guy if he seemed like a legit fit, and had a real chance to make a difference on the team. I don't know of anyone coming out in FA who fits that profile.

We also shouldn't write off Markell Carter. If we don't sign an OLB during FA, it's because BB thinks Carter can provide the same level of competition as a veteran. Carter would also be a lot cheaper than a free agent.

In addition, Carter does have potential. Even though he played in sub-par conference, he was the best player on UCA's defense and probably projects as a solid backup at some point, like a Pierre Woods but with more upside.

I can't say I'm 100% satisfied with this OLB group. I think you'd be crazy to say that. But there's a lot of potential for growth this year. If a few guys can take the next step, especially Cunningham and Ninko (who has progressively gotten better each year with us), this position might end up being very solid for us.[/QUOTE]

 

[TheComeback]

With a shortened camp, I see almost no chance of Carter beating out Murrell. Carter will be very safe on the Practice Squad

Well I doubt he'll come right in and knock everyone off the roster. If he's going to be anything on the Pats, he'll probably need a season or two to adjust to the NFL because he hasn't faced competition even close to that level yet. I'd be happy with him on the PS this year.

 

[Urgent]

Thinking about the free agent OLB candidates:

Player -- Current team -- Ht Wt -- Age -- Exp -- Stats -- Draft stats 40 -- 225 -- Vertical -- Broad -- 3 Cone

Mark Anderson	Houston	6-4.2 254	27	6	29, 4, 2/0	4.61	20	42	10-7	7.0
Manny Lawson	SF	6-5.3 241	26	5	59, 2.5, 6/1	4.43	23	40	10-4	6.9
Ray Edwards	Minn	6-4.6 268	26	6	37, 8, 2/0	4.79	30	39	9-6	7.7
Jason Babin	Tenn	6-2.5 260	30	8	58, 12.5, 0/0	4.62	28	34	10-1	7.1

Anderson and Lawson are the most physically gifted.
Anderson is just about the prototype hit, weight, and speed for the Belichick 34 OLB.
Lawson has awesome speed, and appears comfortable in coverage, but may be undersized. However, neither has put up significant stats - especially if the team is looking for the QB pressure and sacks opposite Cunningham. However, with both -- they are young, and you can hope for the Vrabel effect.

Edwards is also the right size and speed. I haven't seen him play much, and his timed three-cone is very slow for coverage.

Babin is the most productive, but at 30 is the oldest. He's much more a prototypical DE, and might have the hardest transition.

Kiwanuka was tendered by the Giants. However, was that under the terms of the uncapped year, where you can tender sixth-year players? If different terms are eventually agreed to, the Giants also have Tuck, Umenyiora, and Pierre-Paul, so I don't think they would value him as highly as the Patriots. He seemed more comfortable at DE than OLB, but could be a candidate.

Cliff Avril is currently a restricted free agent. He's pretty productive at rush end, and might be able to transition to 34 OLB with his size and speed. He might also want to stay in Detroit to play with Suh and Fairley.

Any of these six would be a great upgrade.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Thinking about the free agent OLB candidates:

Player -- Current team -- Ht Wt -- Age -- Exp -- Stats -- Draft stats 40 -- 225 -- Vertical -- Broad -- 3 Cone

Mark Anderson    Houston    6-4.2 254    27    6    29, 4, 2/0    4.61    20    42    10-7    7.0
Manny Lawson    SF    6-5.3 241    26    5    59, 2.5, 6/1    4.43    23    40    10-4    6.9
Ray Edwards    Minn    6-4.6 268    26    6    37, 8, 2/0    4.79    30    39    9-6    7.7
Jason Babin    Tenn    6-2.5 260    30    8    58, 12.5, 0/0    4.62    28    34    10-1    7.1

Anderson and Lawson are the most physically gifted.
Anderson is just about the prototype hit, weight, and speed for the Belichick 34 OLB.
Lawson has awesome speed, and appears comfortable in coverage, but may be undersized. However, neither has put up significant stats - especially if the team is looking for the QB pressure and sacks opposite Cunningham. However, with both -- they are young, and you can hope for the Vrabel effect.

Edwards is also the right size and speed. I haven't seen him play much, and his timed three-cone is very slow for coverage.

Babin is the most productive, but at 30 is the oldest. He's much more a prototypical DE, and might have the hardest transition.

Kiwanuka was tendered by the Giants. However, was that under the terms of the uncapped year, where you can tender sixth-year players? If different terms are eventually agreed to, the Giants also have Tuck, Umenyiora, and Pierre-Paul, so I don't think they would value him as highly as the Patriots. He seemed more comfortable at DE than OLB, but could be a candidate.

Cliff Avril is currently a restricted free agent. He's pretty productive at rush end, and might be able to transition to 34 OLB with his size and speed. He might also want to stay in Detroit to play with Suh and Fairley.

Any of these six would be a great upgrade.

I think there is a lot more talent there than in the recently completed Draft.

Aldon Smith was drafted very high by the 49ers, so Manny Lawson, a FA, may be easier to sign. Manny was a guy I hoped for out of college but Belichick took some no-name interior lineman from a rinky dink school called Fresno State...

 

[primetime]

Babin had been used at 3-4 OLB and was really bad at it, so he's probably out.

Ninkovich's career is trending upwards and he's a much more solid player than most Patriots fans give him credit for. He's probably an equivalent player to Calvin Pace, not quite as good a pass rusher but better in coverage.

 

[Urgent]

I think there is a lot more talent there than in the recently completed Draft.

Aldon Smith was drafted very high by the 49ers, so Manny Lawson, a FA, may be easier to sign. Manny was a guy I hoped for out of college but Belichick took some no-name interior lineman from a rinky dink school called Fresno State...

...not to derail.
I remember the Manny Lawson draft well. I was one of the guys on the Manny Lawson bandwagon. Lawson went one pick after the Patriots. Much rending of cloth.

The Patriots took a guard that year, but it was O'Callaghan. The player taken one before Manny Lawson was Laurence Maroney.

 

[Deus Irae]

I think there is a lot more talent there than in the recently completed Draft.

Aldon Smith was drafted very high by the 49ers, so Manny Lawson, a FA, may be easier to sign. Manny was a guy I hoped for out of college but Belichick took some no-name interior lineman from a rinky dink school called Fresno State...

Lawson's been a disappointment for the 49ers. Maybe the switch to the Patriots style of 3-4 will help him, but it may just be that he's a 4-3 LB, and not really suited for the 3-4.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Lawson's been a disappointment for the 49ers. Maybe the switch to the Patriots style of 3-4 will help him, but it may just be that he's a 4-3 LB, and not really suited for the 3-4.

Or that its taken several years for him to beef up, and learn 3-4 concepts. I think he had around 5 sacks last season. As I recall Vrabel flashed occasionally too, but the Steelers gave up on him. Could be a similar case...

None the less he would be a good addition.

But Manny is just one one of some guys who may have lost their jobs to new rookies, Corwin Barwin another binkie from the past, has to be in job danger now that JJ Watt was taken. Bum's son wants to move Mario from DE to his OLB position, trying to duplicate what he did with DeMarcus Ware, and opening a place for JJ to play...

 

[lurker1965]

Cunningham. Banta-Cain, Ninkovich, Moore, Murrell
-------------------------------------------------
We expect to add a free agent. How is this so much worse than adding a draftee?

...

That graveyard is scary. I'm going to whistle too.

 

[Dufflebagz]

Cunningham - Improved throughout the season and he really deserved a few more sacks. I can't wait to see him this season.

Banta-Cain - All he does is try a spin move and he always ends up on his ass. If Carter or another OLB makes the roster I would like to see TBC leave.

Ninkovich - He's not a great OLB but he made some big plays, I would really prefer if he was a situational player though....IOW, I would like a better OLB in his place.

Moore - Played well above expectations (really, who had any expectations for him though?) and I would like to see him back for depth.

 

[DonBlackmon55]

Here is the guy we are sleeping on Cousins. He is only 26. He is an UFA:
College:
Manny Lawson DE 6’5 240 North Carolina St.

NFL Combine Stats: 40-yard dash - 4.43, vertical jump - 39.5"

Manny Lawson is one of the truly elite athletes in college football. Not only has he found time to play both end and linebacker, he’s also a track standout having competed in the long jump and hurdles during his time at NC St. As a linebacker in 2002, Lawson had 35 tackles, with one of them coming for loss. As a part time starter in 2003, he improved on all his numbers. He totaled 53 tackles, seven for loss, with three sacks. Lawson made the switch to DE in 2004, and became a full time starter for the first time in his career. On the year, he finished with 50 tackles, 12 for loss, and seven sacks. As a senior, Manny put it all together. He finished the season with career highs across the board: 58 tackles, 19.5 for loss, and 10.5 sacks.

Lawson is an absolute freak of an athlete. He has excellent agility, closing speed, and jumping ability. Pound for pound, he may also be the strongest player in the draft. There is not a single physical trait he lacks. On the football field, he is an emerging talent. He did not make too many plays early on, but once he moved to defensive end, he started to show his pass rushing ability. His upside is tremendous, and he could be a standout pass rusher at the next level. Lawson is also a standout special teamer.

With all his athletic gifts, he is prone to relying on them too often. A major part of that is due to his inexperience on the defensive line. As an end, he lacks the bulk to be a player against the run. Lawson carries the tweener tag, but that has not been a negative lately. Still, he may only fit for certain teams.

Manny Lawson has tremendous upside. As a pass rusher, he has as much pure talent as anyone in the draft. He is listed here as a defensive end, but he has the ability to play OLB in a 3-4 defense. Lawson is the type of player that makes team drool about his potential because of his physical talent. Pass rushers are put at a premium, so do not be surprised to see him crack the first round.

Pros:
The Niners used his as a coverage LB. He did not rush much. 59 Tackles 6 Passes defended with one Int, 2.5 Sacks as a pass rushing afterthought.

This guy has length, can tackle, can defend was a superb pass rusher in college and now has that BB experience.

6'5" and 4.3 speed with experience as an OLB.

Very under the radar!!!
His father was in the Air Force (BB likes a military backround). Look at his wonderlic!

Ht Wt 40-yd dash 10-yd split 20-yd split 20-ss 3-cone Vert Broad BP Wonderlic

6 ft 5⅜ in 241 lb 4.43 s 1.55 s 2.62 s 4.21 s 6.90 s 39½ in 10 ft 4 in 23 rep 43
DW Toys

BB passed on the guy in 2006 draft - he was selected by SF the pick after we selected LoMo @ 21. The pick before LoMo was Tamba Hali who was my binky , as was Kamreion Wimbley who lit it up last year as a Raider after meh 4 yrs with Browns

Lawson needs another 20 lbs to be a Pats system OLB.

 

[mgteich]

then and now.

.
Lawson needs another 20 lbs to be a Pats system OLB.

 

[primetime]

But Manny is just one one of some guys who may have lost their jobs to new rookies, Corwin Barwin another binkie from the past, has to be in job danger now that JJ Watt was taken. Bum's son wants to move Mario from DE to his OLB position, trying to duplicate what he did with DeMarcus Ware, and opening a place for JJ to play...

While the new-look 3-4 Texans LB corps is now a little crowded (Williams will hold down one OLB spot by default, the other will likely go to Brian Cushing; leaving Barwin and Brooks Reed as the top backups unless one of these guys is moved to ILB next to DeMeco Ryans), Barwin is still on his rookie contract and there's no reason the Texans would give up on him now.

That's a scary 3-4 LB corps, and Watt and Antonio Smith are good 3-4 DEs, though the NT position (Shaun Cody will start) is a bit suspect.

It's too bad Charles Johnson will likely be a RFA when free agency finally hits, but if not I wouldn't be surprised if the Patriots go after him as a OLB candidate. I like Ray Edwards, Mathias Kiwanuka, and Mark Anderson too in that order.