Dimitroff on Falcons trade and a bit on Belichick

[IllegalContact]

There were rumors that the patriots wanted to get up to 6 for Jones. The price was too high and Bill bowed out of the talks 2-3 days before the draft.

there were rumors?

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

That was nothing like what Ditka and the Saints did in throwing the kitchen sink to get Ricky Williams who was a bust in N.O.

Jones may not be Ricky, but he is as much of a gamble

 

[Synovia]

On that note, can anyone think of a player who multiple first rounders were given up for that wasn't a dissapointment?


Eli wasn't an outright dissapointment, but if you look at him with regards to Rivers, and all the other players the Chargers got out of that draft, then he clearly was.

Vick wasn't an outright dissapointment, but if you look at all the player the ..Chargers got out of that trade, they came out on top.

The Ricky Williams trade was a loss, and was the result of another losing big pick trade (Gilbert for 2 1sts, which were Williams and Shaun Ellis).

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

31 other GMs also wouldn't have made that trade. Mark it down in history as the day the Atlanta Falcons began their descent back to the bottom.

 

[supafly]

31 other GMs also wouldn't have made that trade. Mark it down in history as the day the Atlanta Falcons began their descent back to the bottom.

When they could have continued to build their team upright, they instead chose to risk everything on one player, and a WR at that. Yes, they certainly will still compete for playoff spots, as M.Ryan is terrific at home, but I agree that they took a step backwards for sure.

 

[TriplecHamp]

When they could have continued to build their team upright, they instead chose to risk everything on one player, and a WR at that. Yes, they certainly will still compete for playoff spots, as M.Ryan is terrific at home, but I agree that they took a step backwards for sure.

I wouldn't say they took an immediate step backwards though. They did what was best for this season, the real impact of this trade will come next year when they have no first round pick.

 

[supafly]

I wouldn't say they took an immediate step backwards though. They did what was best for this season, the real impact of this trade will come next year when they have no first round pick.

Yes, good point, but that's kind of the path I was on. Instead of continuing to build a quality team through the drafts, they will know be behind in that aspect and 'hoping' that Jones makes enough of an impact to win another couple of games.

I would never have personally done that trade, but what do I know? I don't even think there's too many proven NFL WR's that you could make that trade for.

A better way of saying it would have been 'they haven't taken a step back YET, but I certainly expect them to.'

 

[Synovia]

I wouldn't say they took an immediate step backwards though. They did what was best for this season, the real impact of this trade will come next year when they have no first round pick.

I'm not sure thats true though.


Most WRs, even high ones, aren't impact players their rookie years. Mike Williams was probably the best rookie last year, at 65r for 954 yds and 10 tds, and hes kind of a case where Freeman is pretty good, and somebody had to catch the ball.

Here's the list of rookie WRs to break 1000yds:

John Jefferson SD Charger 1978
Joey Galloway SEA Seahawks 1995 1st
Terry Glenn NE Patriots 1996 1st
Randy Moss MIN Vikings 1998 1st
Anquan Boldin ARZ Cardinals 2003 2nd
Michael Clayton TB Buccaneirs 2004 1st
Marques Colston NO Saints 2006 7th


Most of these guys were high first round picks, but we're still talking about essentially 4 guys (Clayton, Moss, Glenn, Galloway) in the modern NFL expected to be game changers, and actually being that their rookie year. And Clayton is probably still considered a bust.




The most likely scenario is Jones has about 500 yards receiving, and 5 or 6 TDs. Is that enough of an impact to offset the 2nd and 4th they gave up this year? Maybe, probably not. Is it enough to offset the aditional 1st and 4th they gave up next year? Definitely not.

 

[Captain Cliche]

Another BB disciple craps the bed.

 

[patchick]

Here's the list of rookie WRs to break 1000yds:

John Jefferson SD Charger 1978
Joey Galloway SEA Seahawks 1995 1st
Terry Glenn NE Patriots 1996 1st
Randy Moss MIN Vikings 1998 1st
Anquan Boldin ARZ Cardinals 2003 2nd
Michael Clayton TB Buccaneirs 2004 1st
Marques Colston NO Saints 2006 7th


Most of these guys were high first round picks, but we're still talking about essentially 4 guys (Clayton, Moss, Glenn, Galloway) in the modern NFL expected to be game changers, and actually being that their rookie year. And Clayton is probably still considered a bust.

Interesting list, thanks. 2 of those recievers (Jefferson & Colston) had HOF-caliber quarterbacks throwing to them, which must be well above the statistical average, but others like Galloway and Moss had dreck at QB. Matt Ryan gives Jones an edge in contributing early, but the probable loss of minicamps and offseason programs hurts his chances.

 

[mgteich]

I recall an interview 2-3 days before the draft where the nfln lady was giving the inside scoop on what she had heard from patriots sources. She said previously acknowledged the the many rumors of moving up, specifically to 6. It was at this point that she said that her sources indicated that a deal could not be struck and that there was no chance of the patriots trading up to 6.

We had been discussing trading up for a long time and discussing trading up to 6 for a couple of weeks.

there were rumors?

 

[TriplecHamp]

The most likely scenario is Jones has about 500 yards receiving, and 5 or 6 TDs. Is that enough of an impact to offset the 2nd and 4th they gave up this year? Maybe, probably not. Is it enough to offset the aditional 1st and 4th they gave up next year? Definitely not.

Im hearing it was going to be Jones or the 5th best rated DE on their board by the time they picked. The fact that teams can't double Roddy White has to be considered as well. If they can get an impact like what Dez Bryant brought to the Cowboys when healthy and without the headache, I think it will pay off this year. The future is in doubt though.

 

[MaineMan]

I recall an interview 2-3 days before the draft where the nfln lady was giving the inside scoop on what she had heard from patriots sources. She said previously acknowledged the the many rumors of moving up, specifically to 6. It was at this point that she said that her sources indicated that a deal could not be struck and that there was no chance of the patriots trading up to 6.

We had been discussing trading up for a long time and discussing trading up to 6 for a couple of weeks.

Here's how I think this works.

The Pats had a conversation with the Browns about how much it would cost to move up to #6. They may well have made the same inquiry of nearly every teams picking ahead of them so that they'd know in advance how to re-arrange their board/remaining priorities if the situation arose where moving up is what they wanted/needed to do to "get their guy." It may also have been to get an idea of what teams trading AFTER them (e.g., San Diego) might have the ammo to trade ahead of them. Lots of generally useful info to be gleaned from such inquiries. So much so that it may well be standard operating procedure for them in every draft - and maybe for a lot of teams.

Then, someone in the Browns organization leaks the fact that they've had such a conversation with the Pats, perhaps to start a bidding war, but who knows what the agenda might have been. Some, hearing this news, interpret as meaning ONLY that the Pats MUST be trying to trade up to #6 and speculation/rationalization about the Pats potential target ensues with Julio Jones ("Moss replacement!!") quickly becoming the consensus rumor. Others check with their Pats sources and get confirmation that the Pats have indeed had this conversation with the Browns, while perhaps neglecting to ask, "Have you spoken with any of the OTHER teams picking ahead of you?" And so, the rumor begins to take on the appearance of fact.

As the draft unfolds, the FALCONS indeed trade up, paying an arm, a leg and Dimitroff's next two children for the #6 and, amazingly, take Julio Jones.

So, from here on, it will be repeated ad nauseum AS FACT that the Pats tried to trade up to #6 to take Julio Jones but were outbid by Dimitroff.

 

[VJCPatriot]

So, from here on, it will be repeated ad nauseum AS FACT that the Pats tried to trade up to #6 to take Julio Jones but were outbid by Dimitroff.

The Pats were interested to see how much it would cost to move up but they weren't interested anymore when they found out the price. Falcons OVERPAID big time to move up for Jones. Browns extracted a Herschel Walker deal from the Falcons in an age where GMs should KNOW BETTER than to make such lopsided trades.

Interestingly enough it was the Browns who drove up the price on the Herschel Walker deal with their initial interest, causing the Vikings to vastly overpay to get Walker. The Falcons apparently were also suitors for Walker but walked away. Maybe it's just in their franchise DNA and they get their version of 'Herschel Walker' 20 years later.

 

[Triple-T]

The Packers Draft well and they do not stock pile. Here is BB's problem and I would say it right to his face, He Drafts out of fear we will make a mistake. It is a lot easier to take a pick into the next year. Problem is we don't cash that out as well and swap yet again. You have to put your big boy pants on one day and actually pick Bill. This "value" crap is B.S. Our sixth and seventh pick were a waste. He could NOT actually have picked them. Some ST assistant must have. There was more VALUE on the board Bill! Don't sell me value there. Ridley could have been had later. What was the value there? I almost wish there was no 2012 Draft so he would have had to make picks to help his Team now, not maybe in 2012 or 2013.

The Packers do draft well, we actually draft better. Out of the top 3 rounds from 2003-2010, I'd say we came away with almost twice as many impact players, a comparable number of good players, almost twice as many serviceable players and fewer busts. Here, go look at both teams draft histories and tell me which one you think is best.

Green Bay Packers All-Time Draft History - Pro-Football-Reference.com
New England Patriots All-Time Draft History - Pro-Football-Reference.com

The packers are not GREAT because they drafted Matthews, Jennings and Rodgers, just like we are not GREAT because we drafted Warren, Wilfork, Mankins, McCourty and Mayo.

 

[CrazyDave]

This is one of the most interesting threads I've read in some time. And the link by the op contains a lot of interesting info as well. thanks